Game of Thrones 6.07 "The Broken Man" 6/5/16 [Show Discussion]

[robby]

@robby

With respect to the Hound’s new religious commune, I spent most of the episode wondering what the heck they were building. (It obviously wasn’t intended to be a gallows.) A watchtower? Maybe a granary or something similar?

@Push_You_Down

I assumed they were building a church…why out in the middle of nowhere? I dunno.

@Dewey_Finn

I agree that it was a church, but it was a very small building; about ten feet in diameter.

So more like a small chapel?

@Sam_Lowry

…I agree with Dewey Finn, it looked like a chapel to me, I think the top part was 7 sided though I didn’t look super closely.

OK, so the consensus seems to be that they were building a chapel or a church, but like Push You Down says, why is it being built out in the middle of nowhere?

There were no other structures around that I could see. And if you are going to set up a new community, it would seem to make sense to build some living quarters first. You can hold church services in people’s houses, after all. That whole group didn’t seem like they were going to be able to live in that little structure they were building.

Also, in a environment with a near-breakdown of law and order, I think that I would want to start with a defensive perimeter, like a timbered wall. I get that these folks are supposed to be a bunch of pacifists, but with hostile armed groups running around the countryside, it seems like their slaughter was inevitable. It’s one thing to not fight back, but another thing to not take the simplest precautions to defend oneself against marauding raiders.

[Duke_of_Rat]

I thought it was like a log rune (maybe not a rune, exactly), some religious thinga-ma-bob other than a church. Not really a dwelling, just a thing.

[Sam_Lowry]

@JSexton

Or, even more likely, that wasn’t Arya getting stabbed. Arya is sneaky as hell. Arya doesn’t wander up to a table, loudly announce where she wants to go, throw money around, and demand a cabin upgrade. Arya certainly doesn’t do all that and then go stand on a bridge in the middle of town, paying no attention to her surroundings, especially when she knows there are people trying to kill her. That person didn’t walk like Arya, dress like her, or act like her. Didn’t even have Needle by her side.

There’s a few possibilities about who it could be. But I’d put money on that not being Arya at all.

I could imagine Jaqen setting up a trap for the Waif to see how she would try to kill Arya, but then when the Waif messed it up, I would think Jaqen would pull of the mask and kill her right then. I don’t know anyone else who would or could be disguising themselves as Arya. And I don’t know why Jaqen or anyone else would jump off the bridge and look all panicked and not take off the mask. It would have made a lot more sense if we followed another character for a minute walking through the town going towards the docks, and then they were stabbed, and the random person is revealed to be Arya and the stabber is revealed to be the Waif.

As unlikely as it would be, it would be hilarious if the Waif killed some other person and never realizes it and Arya has absolutely no issue getting back to Westeros, but it would really underline how much of a waste Arya’s time getting trained has been. I wish they had done with Arya what they had done with Bran, and skipped her for one season and then condensed her story from the past two seasons into one.

[Colibri]

@Lobohan

I think that’s not quite correct. They are the remnants of Berric Dondariaon’s task force created by Ned Stark to bring in The Mountain, who was raiding the countryside. During the war of the five kings, they expanded their mandate to include protecting the countryside against the marauding armies that were pillaging all over the place.

At least, that’s my recollection.

That’s how they started. They later absorbed deserters and other fighters from all factions.

We first hear of them from the Lannister point of view as brigands that are harassing their forces around Harrenhal.

There are several things that don’t make sense about the massacre, especially that food is left strewn around, as well as arrows. If it was done by a group that was short of supplies, you would think that they would take all the food, and gather up the arrows to use again. (Arrows aren’t that easy to make.) Instead it looks like a terroristic attack, designed to sow fear, or a false flag attack to cast blame on the Brotherhood.

[Sampiro]

Jamie is not an unsympathetic character- you can certainly understand why he killed the Mad King, though tossing Bran from a window for witnessing twincest is a bit harder to overlook- but Blackfish would be the world’s biggest idiot to trust a Lannister or a Frey to keep their word. I’m surprised he even consented to a parley, unless it truly was boredom and curiosity.
Love that castle they use for Riverrun, btw: while I’m sure it’s CGI enhanced, does anybody know if it’s partly an actual place?

And the Aerie (sp?) in the Vale is supposed to be impenetrable. Sansa needs to return there and make Ramsey come after her.

[Fear_Itself]

@Sampiro

Love that castle they use for Riverrun, btw: while I’m sure it’s CGI enhanced, does anybody know if it’s partly an actual place?

They built a facade in Corbet, Ireland, including the drawbridge. Not sure about the rest.

[adaher]

@Hampshire

I could definitely see Littlefinger putting the kibosh on the Starks taking back the north. Once he realizes his army has the power to declare the victor he’s going to immediately weigh out which victory is in his and his alone best interests.
After Sansa had him dead to rights and begging for his life he may now consider her a threat that would be better off eliminated. He’s still in Ramsey’s good graces and he may negotiate a position of power with him if it furthers his interests.

I don’t think so. Littlefinger for all his moral faults prefers stability to loose cannons. That’s why he had Joffrey killed. Roose Bolton was stable enough for Littlefinger to back. Ramsey is not. I think he comes around fully to the Starks’ side, although as with anything Littlefinger does, his allegiance could change quickly.

[adaher]

@Sampiro

Jamie is not an unsympathetic character- you can certainly understand why he killed the Mad King, though tossing Bran from a window for witnessing twincest is a bit harder to overlook- but Blackfish would be the world’s biggest idiot to trust a Lannister or a Frey to keep their word. I’m surprised he even consented to a parley, unless it truly was boredom and curiosity.
Love that castle they use for Riverrun, btw: while I’m sure it’s CGI enhanced, does anybody know if it’s partly an actual place?

And the Aerie (sp?) in the Vale is supposed to be impenetrable. Sansa needs to return there and make Ramsey come after her.

Jaime is not unsympathetic, but his character has very clear and consistent motivations. He loves his family and his close friends, and everyone else can just die, even if it’s an eight year old boy.

[clairobscur]

@robby

Also, in a environment with a near-breakdown of law and order, I think that I would want to start with a defensive perimeter, like a timbered wall.

Except that they’re complete pacifists. A wall is of no use if you don’t intend to defend it.

[Dewey_Finn]

Are the people that the Hound was with of the same faith as the High Sparrow and Lancel Lannister? Because the Sparrows in the capital didn’t seem to be pacifists.

[Sir_Prize]

This series is full of violent organizations that someone or other thinks is fighting the good fight. The Brotherhood is what a real-life band of Robon’s Merry Men would be like. Robbing the rich (really the convenient) giving enough away to claim to be good guys but mostly just being a bunch of thugs.

In real life there were American gangsters that used to destroy loan paperwork when they robbed banks for the PR. Same idea.

[Colibri]

@Dewey_Finn

Are the people that the Hound was with of the same faith as the High Sparrow and Lancel Lannister? Because the Sparrows in the capital didn’t seem to be pacifists.

They were of the Faith of the Seven, as shown by the seven-pointed amulet worn by Ian McShane’s character, Ray, who is a septon.

Ray’s group could be pacifists, even if the Faith of the Seven in general is not.

[Lobohan]

@Dewey_Finn

Are the people that the Hound was with of the same faith as the High Sparrow and Lancel Lannister? Because the Sparrows in the capital didn’t seem to be pacifists.

Yeah, they worship The Seven. Rev. Lovejoy said, “Seven Blessings” to the riders when they came up, he wore their symbol, and called himself a septon.

I’d say the Sparrows are a militant faction of the baseline religion.

[AlsoNamedBort]

@Dewey_Finn

Are the people that the Hound was with of the same faith as the High Sparrow and Lancel Lannister? Because the Sparrows in the capital didn’t seem to be pacifists.

The Seven seems to be the main religion in Westeros, particularly in the south. They’re not necessarily all the same.

[Sampiro]

@Dewey_Finn

Are the people that the Hound was with of the same faith as the High Sparrow and Lancel Lannister? Because the Sparrows in the capital didn’t seem to be pacifists.

They’re both followers of the Seven (well, kinda sorta- Brother Swearengen made his “maybe they’re real, maybe they’re not” speech), but it’s kind of the same way Quakers and Branch Davidians are both Protestant.
The worshipers of the Seven and the worshipers of the Old Gods (the ones worshiped at a tree) seem to co-exist peacefully enough, though the worshipers of the Lord of Light are looked upon oddly. If the show runs long enough I’m expecting a Holy War between the [del]Savanarola[/del]High Sparrow followers and the Red folk.

[alphaboi867]

Did anyone else see this on Buzzfeed?

Nice catch about her having seen the old lady’s face on the wall.

@John_Mace

…I was wondering if she was just partying with the men, and wasn’t necessarily a lesbian.

She was openly making out with the slave girl, and then went up to bed her. She wasn’t just trying to fit in with the men; she’d clearly a lesbian or bisexual.

@tonyfop

For some reason, she reminded me of Alia Atreides from the original Dune movie.

Yes.

@adaher

It wasn’t the lack of aid that bugged me so much as the looks on their faces. If I wandered down a market street with a stab wound, there’d be gasps and people yelling to get a doctor(or call 911, but they don’t have phones in GoT). Instead, she got looks of disdain, disgust, or complete unconcern…

That’s completely to be expected in a Medieval-equivalent society. Arya is a stranger to everyone there (& a foreigner to boot). You just don’t get involved in stuff that doesn’t concern you or you kin in a society like that. I don’t even think it’s a fear of the Faceless Men thing because they aren’t supposed to be that sloppy.

@Sam_Lowry

…And I wonder what avoiding the marriage bed has to do with her plan. If Tommen dies and has no heir, that doesn’t help Margaery. The best thing for Margaery’s power would be if she had a son and Tommen died so Margaery would be the Queen Regent. I guess she could just be getting Tommen more frustrated so that he’ll be easier to manipulate, but it’s not like she’s had trouble with that before…

It confirms to Margaery that Tommen is still confiding in the High Sparrow, and like you said it frustrates him. His newfound faith isn’t going to survive a pious & frigid wife who’d rather pray w/ Septa Unella than play with him. And even when she doesn’t go to be I bet she just lies there quietly (or recites fertility prayers to the Mother) instead any of the fun tricks she used before.

@Sam_Lowry

…Or Oleanna is just going to trust that Margaery has it handled. But Oleanna seemed pretty defeated when she was talking to Cersei.

I think Olenna trusts Margaery, but she’s also not thrilled with the part she has to play (pretend to slip away defeated).

@Colibri

…From the look on Littlefinger’s face when Sansa was telling him what happened to her it definitely seemed he was genuinely distressed. I know Littlefinger is an expert in not revealing his true intentions but it looked to me like for once he was being authentic.

I Littlefinger genuinely misjudged how bad Sansa would be treated given how valuable she is and regrets giving her to the Boltons. Even Lord Bolton though Ramsey would be able to refrain from “playing his games” with her.

[oft_wears_hats]

@Colibri

That’s how they started. They later absorbed deserters and other fighters from all factions.

We first hear of them from the Lannister point of view as brigands that are harassing their forces around Harrenhal.

There are several things that don’t make sense about the massacre, especially that food is left strewn around, as well as arrows. If it was done by a group that was short of supplies, you would think that they would take all the food, and gather up the arrows to use again. (Arrows aren’t that easy to make.) Instead it looks like a terroristic attack, designed to sow fear, or a false flag attack to cast blame on the Brotherhood.

That’s an interesting idea. The riders may well have recognized The Hound. He does stand out. They might want to get rid of a BoB group and saw an opportunity to trick The Hound into doing the job for them. Seems a bit convoluted, though.

[Sam_Stone]

Wow, I think there’s a whole lot of over-thinking about Arya - especially at that BuzzFeed link. I’m willing to bet that Arya was stabbed once in a non-fatal place (the first stab looked off to the side quite a bit), and the second stab hit her money and the dagger got stuck. That’s why the waif was twisting it, trying to push it through. That gave Arya the opportunity to get away.

In the next episode we’ll see her passing out, then waking up looking into the face of someone we know, who will take her in and fix her up. Then she’ll go and kill the waif, and get back to Westeros. That’s my guess, anyway. I don’t think it’s much more convoluted than that.

As for Jaime’s motivations and future actions… I think he’s going to ally himself with the Blackfish and the North in the battle for Winterfell. There are lots of reasons for this: First of all, he’s a smart man, and he will listen to what Brienne has to tell him about what’s going on at the wall. Second, he has to know that Ramsay Bolton is a disaster. It’s one thing for the Lannisters to ally with Roose Bolton, who was certainly ruthless but also knew when to reign it in to keep the support of the people he needed. Ramsay is a disaster who will eventually lose the North to someone else, and the Lannisters wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of that. Finally, if Jaime can be convinced about the threat of the White Walkers, it pretty much renders the Game of Thrones moot for the time being.

Also, Jaime has just been stripped of his honor and his life-long position by his own family, and essentially exiled from King’s Landing. He knows that Cersei is in big trouble and that the Lannisters are holding on by a thread. Therefore, regaining some form of alliance with a Stark in the North might be a big deal.

I think Brienne is going to make all the difference. When she shows up on the side of the Blackfish, it’s going to cause Jaime to do a lot of very hard thinking about his own honor and what kind of person he wants to be. He’s going to take a hard look at the band of cowards and cutthroats he’s currently ‘allied’ with, and compare them to the honorable people on the other side, and he won’t like the comparison.

This seems to me to be almost telegraphed by the over-the-top incompetence and nastiness of the Frey army. The director seems to be going to great pains to show just how dishonorable Jaime’s side is compared to the Blackfish.

And of course, it certainly looked like the Blackfish convinced him that a siege of the castle is a very dicey proposition, what with winter coming and the castle set up for the long haul. So he may not have any choice but to make peace in the first place.

[Sam_Stone]

As for Margaery, I don’t think she wants to have Tommen’s baby because she has no intention of being a queen to a Lannister king. She’s smart enough to see that the Lannisters are becoming yesterday’s news. If she becomes pregnant with a Lannister child, her die is cast. I think it’s more likely that she’ll murder Tommen herself. Or, she will murder the High Sparrow, and then rise up as the leader of the faith. She already has the support of the people. If Tommen were to be killed in what looks like a Lannister plot against the faith, and the poor virginal wife and religious zealot miraculously survives, she could be elevated to the leader of the faith and rise up an army against the Lannisters. Then in due time the Tyrells can march back in and take power.

Anyway, I suspect some sort of plan is being hatched, and that plan does not work if Margaery has a Lannister baby in her womb. She’s certainly not avoiding sleeping with Tommen for aesthetic or moral reasons, so there must be another reason. If she truly wanted to be queen to Tommen, having his baby is the fastest way to ensure her own position. Since she doesn’t want that, she doesn’t want the future laid out for her.

[Morbo]

Yeah, I don’t get the Arya super-reveal talk either. The actor she saved is going to find her and help her, probably with lots of lines for Richard E. Grant along the way.

I will say, after all of these not-dead returns this season, I absolutely believe every off-screen death means they’re not dead after all - seeing Syrio Forel again, or Stannis for that matter, would not surprise me.