Game of Thrones 6.10 "The Winds of Winter" 6/26/16 [Show discussion]

I wonder what Cersie’s backup plan was? Tommen had just basically ended her, whatever the outcome of the trial. She’d be dead or the plaything of the Sparrows. If he hadn’t jumped out the window, now what? He’s still king, and probably wants her to pay for ruining his life. Either way, she had to realize she was toast if Tommen lived. I was hoping she’d go to trial, confess to incest - oh, and by the way, punk, you ain’t really the king. Escape in the confusion and light the fuse.

The Mountain can’t take out the Septa’s eyes, she still needs to have Cersie’s face be that last thing she sees. But The Mountain is a notorious torturer, I’m sure he’s got some tricks up his sleeve.

The last time people were chanting “King of the North!” it didn’t go so well. Made me cringe.

The old Three Eyed Raven sure didn’t do a very good job of teaching Bran, even if their session got cut short precisely because of one of the really important things he neglected to mention. Did Bran not get the hint that the touch of the White Walker King negated the White Walker proofing magic the first time around? And now, with Benjen turning back and specifically mentioning that he can’t pass The Wall because of said magic, Bran prepares to cross The Wall. Benjen seems to know quite a bit about this whole deal, would have been nice of him to remind Bran since - oh, never mind. The whole story deadlocks without White Walkers south of The Wall. Happy trails, Bran.

Euron’s gotta show up and sink about half of Dany’s boats. Nothing could stop her if she lands full force.

Also he was a true believer in the religion, and seemed to truly believe that the faith and crown working together would be best for the kingdom. Seeing the Sept blow up, and knowing that so many people were in there, including the High Sparrow who had been counseling him, and knowing that his wife was also likely in there would definitely bring him to despair in the moment. In the After the Thrones, one of the creators said that if Cersei had been in there with him to comfort him, he probably wouldn’t have jumped, but Tommen was all alone.

That scene with Tommen going out was well done, but also I’m predicting that him going out the window will be one of the most used gifs from the show, I’ve already seen it in multiple tweets with meme text.

I think they deserve an Emmy for the first 20 minutes of this episode alone. I especially love the long shot before Tommen walks out the window.

It didn’t seem all that well hidden, though. Did no one look in the basement?

(I guess they may have found it elsewhere and moved it to under the Sept, but that seems pretty dangerous)

I’m not so sure about that whole “éminence grise” theory, for the simple reason that Sansa currently seems to again lack a greater goal, now that Winterfell has been retaken and Ramsay is mince. Also, she may not be as naïve as she used to be, but she is still young and inexperienced and doesn’t actually have a lot of foresight when it comes to Playing the Game and thinking more than one step ahead.

I don’t think her plans to retake Winterfell ever went any further than exactly that, to bring her ancestral home back under the Stark banner, and most likely with her at the head of the house since she’s the only surviving Stark as far as everyone knows and believes. I think she did not expect things to go the way they did, with Jon Snow being crowned King in the North and made de-facto ruler of the household.

Going by her personal history, a good amount of her life so far has been spent being quite passive and powerless, nothing more than a political token to be married off to whoever might benefit from an alliance with the Stark name. I can’t help but think that she might be feeling like she’s headed towards something similar again, now that whatever political power she may have held has obviously been taken away from her again.

She may not wish anything ill to come to Jon Snow, but it’s also been made clear that they never were close as children, and that she doesn’t entirely trust him or his ability to make decisions. It probably didn’t help that he never even tried to point out that actually Sansa is the Stark heir, not him.

Therefore she may see a future with Baelish as a viable alternative now, especially if she thinks she can manipulate him rather than the other way round… and that may put her at odds with Jon at some stage.

Per Varys’ speedy return, it is called the Narrow Sea.

Questions:

Pycelle - Was he a molester of some of the little birds? If I remember correctly, he was mentioned as depraved and seemed to always have a prostitute in his bed.

How many seasons are left? One or two?

It was excellent, but it felt like it was from a different series. The style was jarringly different than what I’m used to in the show. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it did feel a little odd to me. Perhaps I’ll enjoy it more on the next viewing.

Pycelle was not the mater of the birds, Varys was. Qyburn took control of them after Varys left.

We think two seasons, of 7 or 8 episodes each. But that is not certain.

They had that very conversation explicitly and covered all these points. She told Jon that she considered him the rightful heir to Winterfell.

Just a few scenes earlier both of those things were addressed. She regretted not trusting him and they agreed to trust each other more. And he said he was having the Lord’s chamber prepared for her. And she says that he should take it. She’s comfortable with the idea of Jon being the heir to winterfell. She was happy when they proclaimed him King in the North. The smile faded from her face when she realized that it made Littlefinger unhappy, which would make things difficult.

These threads move fast; the most recent “cite” linked theorizes 13 episodes total: 7 next year, 6 the year after.

Doesn’t Bran have a homing beacon on him as well? The Night King found him almost instantly after he touched him. Bran seems to be enormously vulnerable to any passing White Walker or Wight.

I’m not sure where his story line is going. At this point it looks like he’s just there to invalidate the magic the wall. Beyond that, it’s not clear that he has any idea of what he is capable of, let alone a cogent plan to use his powers.

She shouldn’t have any goal beyond that. Winter is here and the idea of anyone invading the north is laughable. Similarly, the idea of the North marching south to take revenge is ludicrous. They should simply prepare for winter and rebuild their strength.

A few questions I had:

  1. Why did the little kid lead the guy down to the wildfire only to mortally wound him? Was there any in-story reason for that or was it purely to create an artificial sense of suspense for the audience of whether he’d be able to prevent it.

  2. Isn’t Jaime on Arya’s list? Because he was on site when she killed Frey. Could’ve had a twofer.

  3. Ok, so now Bran knows and we know that Jon has a claim to the Iron Throne. What is the mechanism by which everybody else learns this in a way that they’ll treat it seriously. Does anybody else even know the Three Eyed Raven exists?

  1. In-story, I think the kid’s role was to wait until everyone was in the Sept, and then go light the candles. Lancel just happened to follow him down there, so he needed to be shanked. Out-of-story, the audience needed a POV to what was happening in the tunnel.

  2. No, he wasn’t around for any of the various betrayals, although you’d think she’d hold a grudge for crippling her brother.

  3. No one knows for sure. The 3ER does not seem to be a commonly known thing. Bran is not far from Winterfell at this point, though. He’s also not terribly far from Greywater Watch, the home of Howland Reed, who was also present with Ned at the Tower of Joy, and Bran is conveniently traveling with Howland Reed’s daughter. So there’s a living witness that he now knows about.,

I watched the episode a second time this morning; I don’t think that was a little kid who led the grand maester down there, but instead it was a little person (i.e., a dwarf).

A perfectly valid interpretation. It is weird that Sansa’s name doesn’t even come up once in the meeting of the Houses, not even from little Lady Mormont who should have no trouble with the idea that a female can lead a House. But we see no indication that Miss Mormont’s speech was anyone’s idea but hers, so there is nothing that suggests that Sansa influenced the outcome of the deliberation in any way.

But she definitely realized that Littlefinger wasn’t amused by it. He will tempt her again, and she will have to decide about her future once more.

Arya doesn’t know that Jamie crippled her brother; sure, he played a role in the downfall of her family - but, I think, he doesn’t qualify. Arya focuses on those, who directly harmed someone she cared about and was not able to protect.

Sorry, but I see her aligning with Jon as a possible marriage, Jon’s kiss on her forehead was just this side of an intimate kiss.

Nope, she had that when LF told her what his dream of being on the Iron Throne with her at his side and she pushed him away and said nice dream. She needed the Knights of the Vale, not specifically him. He was just the lever that she used to get what she needed.

Notice on the battlements, she says nobody trusts littlefinger, when Jon asks about Lord Baelish and trusting him. So far, she has had one marriage to Tyrion, which not bad, was not the original contract to Joffery and being queen. Then she was angled by LF to Robyn, before heading to winterfell and shopped to Ramsay, and all for his benefit.

No, LF is now aligned with the Starks with nothing really in his benefit , and no real way to change sides. I don’t see him lasting through season 7.

Declan

I couldn’t quite see what was revealed when he lifted the crust off the pie. Was it a body part?

Here’s the scene. I don’t see any sigil on the sails aside from the red Targaryen three-headed dragon. At a distance it can look like a round symbol like that of the Martells or Tyrells.

While she hasn’t mentioned them recently, that doesn’t mean they aren’t on the list if she runs into them.

The series hasn’t usually left a loose end like that. Jorah will probably be cured, but whether or not he is he will die somehow trying to aid Dany (maybe unsuccessfully).

Bran asked the previous Three-eyed Raven if he would walk again. The Raven told him no, but he would fly. I’m betting that’s more than figurative or a reference to warging.

Yeah, I loved it. She’s gone full Maleficent.

I think that was a threat he wasn’t planning on carrying out. On the other hand, Walder said that Edmure had been returned to prison, even though Jaime promised him he would be exiled with his wife and son to Casterly Rock. And it’s not clear what was the ultimate fate of the Tully garrison either. If Jaime didn’t keep his promise to Edmure on the exile, they would probably have been slaughtered by the Freys after surrendering.

I can’t imagine that such an extraordinary tale wouldn’t have spread throughout the North by word of mouth. Tormund is at the meeting and he saw it first hand. In any case, it doesn’t seem they are at all concerned that Jon is no longer with the Watch.

Right. Kevan, Pycelle, and Mace threw Cersei and Jaime off the Small Council. Qyburn was her ally. There was a bit of a Godfather vibe there of settling old scores all at once.

I missed that detail. Interesting, since Qyburn has no military experience.

Definitely.

It says both it’s a “split season” and that it’s across two years. “Split season” implies to me that all the episodes will take place within 12 months but with a gap between them.

That didn’t make a lot of sense. There didn’t seem to be much reason for the kid to lead Lancel down there and potentially reveal the plot. Lancel could have been killed earlier.

Jaime’s never been on Arya’s list. No one but Jaime and Cersei know Jaime pushed Bran out the window (and even Bran has forgotten it). And I think Jaime and the Lannister forces had left the Twins before Arya made her move on Walder.

Yup, they showed a nail and part of a finger, a thumb, I think.

Thanks.

It was probably clear it was a Frey from the dirt under the nail.:wink: