Game of Thrones 7.03 "The Queen's Justice" 7/30/17

[Rigamarole]

@Morbo

It also bugged me that nobody believes Jon Snow about the Whitewalkers. There are dragons, giants, women who cannot burn, people being brought back from the dead, vagina-smoke-monsters, blood magic, warging, face-changing assassins…why draw the line at Whitewalkers? I know, some of those characters haven’t seen all of those things, but still.

It’s one thing to believe something is real, or plausible, but it’s another to believe it’s a major, imminent threat to our entire civilization’s survival and that direct, laborious, immediate action is required on my part to deal with it. In other words, when there’s a call to action, and that action is extremely painstaking (let’s mobilize thousands of troops to fight), that’s going to take an extra level of convincing. Dany did say he could mine the dragonglass, so it’s not like she doesn’t believe him at all.

I think it’s entirely fair for people to need a little more persuasion than the word of a stranger before they’re going to rally behind the idea that “this is something we all need to be dealing with NOW, with our full force, or we’re completely fucked”.

[clairobscur]

@DrCube

But I’m still holding out for Howland Reed to break the story to Jon in person. He’s got to come bend the knee to his new king anyway, and just maybe he would want to see his own child after she returned from fighting ice zombies beyond the Wall?

@Elendil_s_Heir

Yes! Howland is long overdue to put in an appearance.

I doubt he will appear. They’re in the process of removing characters, not adding new ones.

@SenorBeef

Ravens for aid… to the ships? I figure Ravens work like homing pigeons - they’re not going out to ships at sea.

In fact, I always assumed that they didn’t work like pigeons, but I might be mistaken.

[GrumpyBunny]

I can’t wait for Sansa and Danerys to have a conversation.

Dany: “I was raped! I was sold!”
Sansa: “Oh, girl…let me tell you.”

@Dante

If Dany keeps going like this, it’s only going to be her, Tyrion and Missandei left, riding around on dragons solving mysteries

Spinoff!

@Biggirl

Also, Bran continues to underwhelm.

I’m missing the point of the Three-Eyed Raven. Ok, it sees the past. And can warg.

@Mr.Kobayashi

I don’t know why he didn’t pull a Michonne from The Walking Dead and bring a few wights with their arms and jaws chopped off down to Dragonstone. Maybe they’re just too dangerous to think of it.

Maybe they melt? What happens when White Walkers end up somewhere above freezing?

[Smid]

@DrCube

But I’m still holding out for Howland Reed to break the story to Jon in person. He’s got to come bend the knee to his new king anyway, and just maybe he would want to see his own child after she returned from fighting ice zombies beyond the Wall?

That would (and I NEVER use this word) Awesome.

But the writers of the current incarnation of GOT (I do wonder if will be remade eventually given the way it’s going) wouldn’t do that. It makes a hell of a lot of sense too.

It’s some wonderfully awesome moments which could have happened.

Like the dragons landing near Jon Snow and taking an interest in him, like they should, if he’s a Targaryn. Possibly with Tyrion.

“Nah. Too expensive” or “Oh that would have been a good, I wish I’d thought of it”

[nofloyd]

@GrumpyBunny

I’m missing the point of the Three-Eyed Raven. Ok, it sees the past. And can warg.

We’ve twice seen Bran causing an effect in the past - when his father heard him and when he caused Hodor’s seizure …

What if Bran starts using this power to marshal help for the future/change the past.

Mad King saying burn them all – Bran whispering (read that somewhere over the years)

What if it’s all Bran?

Lord of Light giving visions, the voice who spoke from the flames to Varys …
All Bran sending out a wide psychic broadcast to whoever is sensitive in the current generations … “Come to Westeros, threat in the north - you’re all going to die”

blur it a bit and it explains Melisandre saying her destiny and Varys is to die in westeros. The hound seeing where to go - eastwatch where presumably the dead may cross.

Get all timey wimey and maybe Bran is the reason thy’re all in this pickle. Maybe Bran interferred with the children’s plan and that’s why it got out of control in the first place.

/wild assed speculations

[Biggirl]

Bran is the only way I can see that anyone will find out Jon’s heritage. He still needs to confirm it, even for us viewers.

[Stanislaus]

@Sam_Stone

It’s not a gambit. Taking the knee would be *treason[/] to the Northmen. He is a king, every bit the equal of Daeneris. He came there to represent his people, not to surrender them to another five minutes after meeting her.

If anything, Daeneris’s demand that he bend the knee was the stupid thing to do. She had to know that he wouldn’t and couldn’t do that, so she started their meeting off on the wrong foot right out of the gate.

I can’t tell whether the writers are intentionally trying to depict Daeneris as becoming more and more imperious and mad-king like, or if it’s just weak writing.

I thought it was totally in character for Dany to demand Jon bend the knee. She has always made the strongest possible claim to power and shown great unwillingness to have that diminished. She’s the frightened orphan who came to power and she’s now highly protective of that power. It was also, of course, totally in character for Jon to refuse to pledge allegiance. That’s what made for a great scene - two strong characters who had the potential to co-operate but who had their own red lines for what they would and wouldn’t do.

What puzzled me is whether Jon’s negotiating strategy is utter genius or utter stupidity. Am I right that Jon explicitly said in Ep 2 that he was going to Dragonstone because they had dragonglass? That was at least one of his reasons, right? Because on the island Tyrion had to beat him over the head till he remembered to ask for it. Given that his vague suggestion that he and Dany team up in some way in the North had been rebuffed, wasn’t asking for the dragonglass the obvious fall back position?

So either Jon forgot about the miracle substance that kills White Walkers until prompted, which is unbelievable stupid, or he played Tyrion into basically promising to accept his request for it before he’d even mentioned it, which is genius.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@clairobscur

I doubt he will appear. They’re in the process of removing characters, not adding new ones…

Twenty bucks says we meet Howland Reed before the series ends.

@GrumpyBunny

…I’m missing the point of the Three-Eyed Raven. Ok, it sees the past. And can warg…

And he’s all dreamy and cryptic and shit.

@nofloyd

We’ve twice seen Bran causing an effect in the past - when his father heard him and when he caused Hodor’s seizure …

What if Bran starts using this power to marshal help for the future/change the past.

…Get all timey wimey and maybe Bran is the reason thy’re all in this pickle. Maybe Bran interferred with the children’s plan and that’s why it got out of control in the first place.

/wild assed speculations

I like 'em!

[madmonk28]

Sure seems like Dany has a spy in her midst, that would make recent events more plausible.

[DrCube]

Or Tyrion isn’t an infallible genius, and Jaime and Cersei aren’t always incompetent oafs. A spy would be believable, but Dany losing just because she made a couple missteps that the Lannisters capitalized on is also believable.

[Smid]

So I’m just trying to remember the last time we had a serious twist in the series… Something which few people didn’t see coming. It did use to be a signature thing in this series.

We all knew the Battle of the Bastards would be won by the Starks/Jon.

We knew Jon Snow would be resurrected, really. People saw him on a plane in Belfast the summer before Season 6.

Season 5, when Jon got stabbed…

Just wondering if that’s sort of dropped by the wayside…

[DigitalC]

@Smid

So I’m just trying to remember the last time we had a serious twist in the series… Something which few people didn’t see coming. It did use to be a signature thing in this series.

We all knew the Battle of the Bastards would be won by the Starks/Jon.

We knew Jon Snow would be resurrected, really. People saw him on a plane in Belfast the summer before Season 6.

Season 5, when Jon got stabbed…

Just wondering if that’s sort of dropped by the wayside…

I don’t think anyone expected Dany to lose all her allies so quickly.

[madmonk28]

@DrCube

Or Tyrion isn’t an infallible genius, and Jaime and Cersei aren’t always incompetent oafs. A spy would be believable, but Dany losing just because she made a couple missteps that the Lannisters capitalized on is also believable.

Except for the magic fleet that is able to completely take them by surprise.

[jkirkman]

In regard to Euron attacking the fleet after the Unsullied disembarked–

I am in no way a naval historian (or a navel one, though I do have some experience in the latter), and I would be interested in hearing from any on this subject, but, this being the internet, it won’t stop me from talking out of my rear about ancient naval conflicts.

From watching Euron’s ship attack Yara’s in the last episode, it looked like he has no marines and no archers, and relies on (1) standing off and shooting flaming projectiles at other ships, or (2) boarding the other ships and attacking with sailors in hand-to-hand combat.

In either case, the last thing you would want is to attack a fleet with all its ships crammed with Unsullied. If you try to stand off and cast fireball, erm, somehow launch flaming projectiles at the opposing fleet without setting your own ships on fire, the other ships will come straight at you, ram you, board you, and the Unsullied will kill you all. If you try to ram them and fight hand to hand, the Unsullied will likewise win the day. You need to wait until after the army is disembarked, and then attack empty ships with small crews of sailors on board.

That is how he beat Yara—using fully-crewed larger (and doubtlessly less maneuverable) ships against skeleton-crewed ships who needed every inch of empty space on board for the army they were on the way to pick up.

So, speaking with my limited knowledge of how things worked in this world, and especially in a fictional one with magic, his timing was perfect.

[TruCelt]

@Biggirl

Bran’s arc so far this season–

Everyone: Hey, it’s Brandon Stark!
Bran: I see dead people.
Everyone: (Slowly backs away.)

Well, he did declare his lack of interest in being Lord of Winterfell, so that’s something.

@Smid

. . .

Just wondering if that’s sort of dropped by the wayside…

@jkirkman

In regard to Euron attacking the fleet after the Unsullied disembarked–

So, speaking with my limited knowledge of how things worked in this world, and especially in a fictional one with magic, his timing was perfect.

Besides which, he and his new bride will need the unsullied. His ships are so much better that her old ones would just be in the way.

. . . He never said he wanted to marry Cersei. He said he wanted to marry the most beautiful woman in the world.

He’s making sure that her only choice will be to accept his engagement present.

[Smid]

@DigitalC

I don’t think anyone expected Dany to lose all her allies so quickly.

With the amount of episodes left, I saw this as purely getting somewhere quickly, than an actual twist of any kind…

[SenorBeef]

The guy who plays Euron is growing on me. The way he taunts Jamie cracks me up.

“A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, we’ll talk later”

[jkirkman]

@DigitalC

I don’t think anyone expected Dany to lose all her allies so quickly.

In my mind, Dany won this round. She is in a much better position than she was in the previous episode.

She now controls the Lannister lands and seat of power.

Cersei’s army defeated Emma Peel, but they, along with her only capable commanders, are so far south they might as well be in Dorne. Cersei has nothing left–the Highgarden stunt was a move of desperation aimed at an old foe, and was largely pointless. Jaime wasn’t attacking where others were not strong–he was running away from a certain defeat at the castle he was born in.

It reminded me of the Peninsula Campaign in the American Civil War, when McClellan had some difficulties convincing Lincoln and company that that the Confederate States could not, and would not, lose Richmond to attack Washington DC. Well, Jaime just did exactly that, and I hope/expect it is part of his doomed character arc that he realizes this, if he does not already.

On a less snarky note, when watching Jon try to explain his position, and realize, even as he was about to say important and real things, that he sounded like he was nuts, I started to wonder what it would be like today to be in that position.

What if, somehow, you knew that North Korea had nuclear warheads capable of working on their missiles, and were going to start WW3 this fall, and you tried to tell people?

And no one listened because it seemed outlandish and besides, college football season is almost here.

How would you act?

How do you live in a world you know is doomed if no one listens to you, but you also know that no one is listening to you? How do you logically proceed?

[puddleglum]

@Smid

That would (and I NEVER use this word) Awesome.

But the writers of the current incarnation of GOT (I do wonder if will be remade eventually given the way it’s going) wouldn’t do that. It makes a hell of a lot of sense too.

It’s some wonderfully awesome moments which could have happened.

Like the dragons landing near Jon Snow and taking an interest in him, like they should, if he’s a Targaryn. Possibly with Tyrion.

“Nah. Too expensive” or “Oh that would have been a good, I wish I’d thought of it”

I just noticed on rewatch that as soon as Jon Snow says “I am not a Stark” a dragon flies overhead.

[Enderw24]

I also think Howland Reed has to show up at some point.

Bran will probably reveal Jon’s heritage to him…but then what? We as viewers will believe it, but why would anyone in-show believe the word of Jon’s half-brother/cousin on a claim as important as this? Because Bran saw it when he travelled through time? Good luck with that one.

No, the only one that can confirm this are the people that were there at the time. The show made a point of showing both Howland and Ned in the flashback.