Oh, and what the hell happened to Coldhands (Ben Stark)? Wasn’t he with Bran and Meera last season? That would have been an interesting trip to The Wall.
He couldn’t cross the Wall because of “magic.” He said he would do what he could north of the wall, so I’m sure he’ll turn up again.
On the contrary, Casterly Rock was formerly rich in gold, whereas Highgarden is rich in food (in addition to gold, I’m sure) and is necesary to feed the Lannister army. Casterly Rock was emptied of anything valuable, and the Unsullied are isolated there - sort of a reverse siege.
Highgarden is the key to Dany’s Westerosi support. Not only were the Tyrell’s her most valuable ally, but the area now serves as a buffer between land-based Dornish forces and the rest of Westeros. The fleet that was going to carry the Dornish was sunk, and if the Dornish invade from the south then they’ll have to go through the Reach. It also serves to solidify the other houses formerly loyal to the Tyrells. The houses of the Westerlands aren’t going to abandon the Lannisters because they gave away Casterly Rock to a stranded force - but the Tarlys and other houses formerly loyal to the Tyrells were probably going to take up arms against the Crown.
In one move, they secure another house’s riches to fund the war, secure the best source of food on the continent, shore up the support of the former Tyrell bannermen, neutralize Dany’s primary Westerosi ally, isolate her other Westerosi ally, and strand her primary infantry forces - all at the cost of giving away one isolated city temporarily.
Combined with the sinking of another significant fraction of Dany’s fleet, this is a huge win for the Lannisters. I give the writers credit for coming up with some plausible way that the Lannisters stand a chance. This makes sense.
When Jon said he did not enjoy doing the thing he is good at, I don’t think he was talking about ruling. He kinda sucks at that. I think he was talking about fighting, which he is very good at but doesn’t like at all.
I was thinking maybe sharing a vision of Jon’s heritage with some key people. It might require some handwaving where the audience has to take the characters’ word when they say that they believe him.
Or nobody will ever find out, because a central theme is that ancestry doesn’t matter if you don’t have the power to back it up.
Mrs G and I were looking at the Map of Westeros and realizing that ships and navies are simply broken magical plot devices.
Somehow Dany moving armies across the narrow sea was an epic journey but attacking Casterly Rock from Dragonstone, that required a full ‘around the Horn’ journey, happened in a hand-wavey instant. Similar with Jon Snow boating down from the wall, treating the long sea voyage like a commuter-jet day hop.
I was thinking he meant “killing.”
Ok, we are going to have to disagree here 8-).
Your comments are all well-reasoned, and I respect your position, and it is entirely logical.
Allow me to draw attention to the size of the Lannister army as it approaches Highgarden. It is TINY. Like, a few thousand. That amount of soldiers is never going to be able to control an entire kingdom. Gold isn’t going to do them any good if they can’t send it anywhere, whilst trying to tamp down rebellion and open hostility in the only city they have taken in the kingdom. And food won’t do them any good if they can’t control where it is stored or sent.
With a force that small, they control nothing.
Which brings me to Casterly Rock. I know what Jaime said about emptying the larder. But, really, is he saying that, if Dany had not attacked, that this own soldiers there would have all died of starvation? Because, you kill a soldier in uniform (a), and replace him with a soldier in uniform (b), this means that the supply chain is completely disrupted? Is he saying that they not only took most of the troops out of the city, intentionally condemning the ones left behind to death in the coming invasion, but, also, that, should they win out and repel the invasion, they were expected to starve to death? And that none of the officers would have noticed, and pulled the troops out of the lost-cause city, and lived to fight another battle?
Look at the map. Dany has already won this conflict, and she still hasn’t committed the Dothraki to the fight. Cersei (and Jaime) have just moved their only mobile, yet tiny, effective fighting force completely out of any area of strategic importance.
If Jon had not lost most of his army in some stupid strategy at the battle of the bastards, and if it was not winter, he could roll up the Lannisters from the North (as Ayra took out the Freys). But he does not have the food, or the men, and also knows that fighting in the south is pointless.
The entire fight over the Iron throne is pointless, and he is the only one who understands that.
But, again, you have a very good argument, and I understand your point of view.
So erm, thanks?
Cersei got the gold needed to pay off the Iron Bank and gained a powerful ally. She got control of the food which will decide who survives the Winter, and of the land route for bringing food from the only other place that will have any: Dorne.
Dany started in Slaver’s Bay, which is all the way South, then East, then North again, past Volantis and Valyria. It’s an Epic Journey.
Also, Dragonstone is at the mouth of Blackwater Bay, and we know that Euron was leaving King’s Landing about the time they set out, so it’s perhaps not so amazing that he caught up with Yara’s fleet.
Also, Tyrion and Varys both acknowledged that Cersei would expect them to hit Casterly rock and be ready for them. I do think that Euron getting there in time is bit chancy though. Cersei would have to have told him her suspicions about the Casterly attack as he left to get her present. And he would have had to split his fleet right then and have ships near Casterly waiting for them.
Heh. That was a nice moment.
Dorne has food?
I thought all they had was sand, bad plot lines, and pajamas.
Do we ever get an actual look at the full size of the army? Certainly seemed bigger than the Bolton army last season, which was around 5000 or so.
Regardless, it’s not just the Lannisters. They have Highgarden’s bannermen on their side now. You have the bannermen, you have the kingdom.
Well, presumably as Winter takes over they’ll be the warmest the longest. So I’m just assuming that climatically they’ll be last to starve.
It is *really* small.
Maybe it just looked that way because winter is coming, and, you know, shrinkage.
That amount of men could not control the castle and town, much less the kingdom.
I think it’s a mistake to make definitive judgments based on a scene like that. You really think they meant to depict the literal extent of Lannister resources? As I’ve said before, we’re not watching a documentary.
Yes, killing or fighting is what he meant.
I believe it is all just in fun, and the discussion is fun.
The show has dragons? Then I believe in dragons. People are brought back from the dead? Cool. I mean, I wonder if that changes the expiry date on their driver’s license, but still not a problem.
The show, which can CGI any amount of people into an army, chooses to use a force too small to even besiege the castle shown on the hill, much less take it?
Then I think that, as a viewer, absent something like they way they showed Dany’s guys using Tyrion’s prostitute-portal, that I am being told that the people of that town were not happy with the political choices that Emma Peel took, and that her army basically opened the door to the Lannisters.
And I am also going to look at that tiny army, that was let in, and think that there is no way they will be able to dominate the area. Jaime shows no joy in his “victory”, because he knows he is now in the same boat as the Unsullied, who are currently sleeping in his bed. He took it, but holding it is going to be a different, and very difficult, thing.
Which is all just opinion, of course.
This is, after all, not a documentary
I think Dany’s losses are not yet over. I expect the giant ballista will come into play somehow and she will lose at least one dragon. At that point, the tide should then turn.
If Tyrion’s proverbial god of wine and tits is from anywhere, it’s Dorne.
Jon didn’t travel from the wall. He left from White Harbor.