It was no character attack. My point was that the OP was not using a broad-brush as you set up as your straw-man. Do you concede that point? It’s certainly more clear than the Bible is.
I do know the Cedar Springs area well enough to know if you were standing around with a big cross on any of the nearby corners, you were specifically there to confront the people at the Cathedral of Hope or perhaps the folks headed to Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse. That’s not a high pedestrian area for anything but those two establishments. Now if you were standing down on Throckmorten, you might have a better case of asserting that you were witnessing generally. But even then, you’d be specifically targeting homosexuals. Do you also go a couple of blocks over and witness to all the hispanic Catholics on Maple?
Are you willing to say that the Gay Christians in the OP behaved more Christlike than the protestors outside? Or must you put quotes around the “Christian”? Do you assert that the guy who said he wanted to punch you is more typical of Gay Christians than the ones in the OP? Are you sure he was even a Christian and not just searching?
Wow…that’s a lot of answering too. So let me skim over some of them. Cedar Springs is not a church, it’s an area of Dallas. It has the largest Homosexual Church probably in the world, or did when I was there. We did not go to the church, nor did we go to any other church while we were there. We went to the streets.
Now my statement was ‘I want to punch you’ were you unclear who he wanted to punch, or did you think he wanted to punch everyone? “Why?” ‘Because you say’ Now you have an issue with this one? Sorry, but it seemed pretty clear to me what he was saying. As for the anti-gay bias, what if I was to use the same logic for the story that started this thread, and say it was obvious that, although some people were nice, there were others who provoked the hostility? Isn’t that the same argument that everyone hates when it’s turned around? Oh, he did something bad to you, but it was your fault, or the fault of the group I was with. That’s a cop out.
What do I think about Gay Christians? I think they are some of the nicest people I’ve ever met. They have a love that I’ve rarely seen in the church. Do I think it’s a sin? Yes. Do I think it’s the worst sin, and rate sins like gossip in a less manor? No. Do I think I was any better at any time in my life? No.
As for sharing the love of God, that is something that has been over shared by those in sin. Oh, it’s ok if I’m like this, God loves me. That may be true, but if you look at the life of Jesus, Him message never said ‘I love you, so you don’t need to change.’ Look at the rich young ruler, “What must I do to be saved?” The law was preached to him. If I came up to you and said I just paid a $20,000 fine on your behalf, that would seem very foolish of me, and possibly even offensive to you. I’m implying you’ve broken the law, and you don’t think I have. If I first say something like there was a blind convention going on in town, there were ten clear warning signs, you ignored them all when you sped through there, and now there’s a $20,000 fine you have to pay…then I tell you about how I paid it, you’ll appreciate it, and not only that, but you’ll slow down next time, cause you see the mistake for what it is. It is my belief that there are a lot of people who take God’s love as an excuse to sin because they’ve never seen sin for what it is. You talk about the love of God, but God is no less loving when someone goes to hell.
As for the belief that I know the Bible more than anyone, I think if you received that from something I’ve said, then I’m sorry, I do not wish to imply that even a little. I do know some things, as I have studied them, but to think I know everything would be a great error on my part. But I can also say that I did have to really study after Cedar Springs, as the questions I was faced with made me. If your point is about praying about what the Bible says, then maybe I misunderstood. I’ll give you an example. The Bible says honour your parents. I don’t need to then pray about whether I should honour my parents or not, cause that’s pretty clear. Does that mean I know everything about honouring my parents? No.
As for being in the presence of openly gay people, I’m not sure what that’s suppose to infer. I’ve been in the presence of straight people who were around homosexual people, and they’ve never even made a single comment about it. So does that mean that no straight person makes any comment against homosexuals? We both know that to be untrue.
No finally, my belief that all need to be saved. I believe that with all my heart. I believe that one day God will require an account from us, and will judge sin. I believe that He can send someone to hell and still love them, in the same way that if I was a judge, and my son broke the law, I wouldn’t love him less when I sent him to jail. I also believe that many people throw the term ‘Christian’ around for many things that have nothing to do with Christ. Can there be a Christian Mormon and Christian Jehovah’s Witness? Both have totally opposite views on Christ, and both have totally seperate extra-Biblical writtings, so are both Christian? What is a Christian?
Last question…I don’t want to get an email everytime someone replies to this, so can I turn that option off?
Wow…that’s a lot of answering too. So let me skim over some of them. Cedar Springs is not a church, it’s an area of Dallas. It has the largest Homosexual Church probably in the world, or did when I was there. We did not go to the church, nor did we go to any other church while we were there. We went to the streets.
Now my statement was ‘I want to punch you’ were you unclear who he wanted to punch, or did you think he wanted to punch everyone? “Why?” ‘Because you say’ Now you have an issue with this one? Sorry, but it seemed pretty clear to me what he was saying. As for the anti-gay bias, what if I was to use the same logic for the story that started this thread, and say it was obvious that, although some people were nice, there were others who provoked the hostility? Isn’t that the same argument that everyone hates when it’s turned around? Oh, he did something bad to you, but it was your fault, or the fault of the group I was with. That’s a cop out.
What do I think about Gay Christians? I think they are some of the nicest people I’ve ever met. They have a love that I’ve rarely seen in the church. Do I think it’s a sin? Yes. Do I think it’s the worst sin, and rate sins like gossip in a less manor? No. Do I think I was any better at any time in my life? No.
As for sharing the love of God, that is something that has been over shared by those in sin. Oh, it’s ok if I’m like this, God loves me. That may be true, but if you look at the life of Jesus, Him message never said ‘I love you, so you don’t need to change.’ Look at the rich young ruler, “What must I do to be saved?” The law was preached to him. If I came up to you and said I just paid a $20,000 fine on your behalf, that would seem very foolish of me, and possibly even offensive to you. I’m implying you’ve broken the law, and you don’t think I have. If I first say something like there was a blind convention going on in town, there were ten clear warning signs, you ignored them all when you sped through there, and now there’s a $20,000 fine you have to pay…then I tell you about how I paid it, you’ll appreciate it, and not only that, but you’ll slow down next time, cause you see the mistake for what it is. It is my belief that there are a lot of people who take God’s love as an excuse to sin because they’ve never seen sin for what it is. You talk about the love of God, but God is no less loving when someone goes to hell.
As for the belief that I know the Bible more than anyone, I think if you received that from something I’ve said, then I’m sorry, I do not wish to imply that even a little. I do know some things, as I have studied them, but to think I know everything would be a great error on my part. But I can also say that I did have to really study after Cedar Springs, as the questions I was faced with made me. If your point is about praying about what the Bible says, then maybe I misunderstood. I’ll give you an example. The Bible says honour your parents. I don’t need to then pray about whether I should honour my parents or not, cause that’s pretty clear. Does that mean I know everything about honouring my parents? No.
As for being in the presence of openly gay people, I’m not sure what that’s suppose to infer. I’ve been in the presence of straight people who were around homosexual people, and they’ve never even made a single comment about it. So does that mean that no straight person makes any comment against homosexuals? We both know that to be untrue.
No finally, my belief that all need to be saved. I believe that with all my heart. I believe that one day God will require an account from us, and will judge sin. I believe that He can send someone to hell and still love them, in the same way that if I was a judge, and my son broke the law, I wouldn’t love him less when I sent him to jail. I also believe that many people throw the term ‘Christian’ around for many things that have nothing to do with Christ. Can there be a Christian Mormon and Christian Jehovah’s Witness? Both have totally opposite views on Christ, and both have totally seperate extra-Biblical writtings, so are both Christian? What is a Christian?
Last question…I don’t want to get an email everytime someone replies to this, so can I turn that option off? And I have tried hitting the unsubscribe link with the email.
Svt, if you hit the “User CP” button on the top of any webpage here, it will take you to a list of currently active threads that you’ve posted in. Find this thread title and hit the “Unsubscribe” link below it. That should turn off you e-mail notification.
You said quite a bit, but didn’t answer a single question directly.
Let me restate this fact. I do know the Cedar Springs area well enough to know that if you were on a corner near the Catheral of Hope you were there to witness to the people going in and out of that church (or Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse). Therefore, you were not witnessing “in general” but were specifically targeting Gay Christians.
Now, some of my questions, rephrased or new:
Do you also go over to Maple and witness to the mostly hispanic Catholics?
What part of being gay is sinful?
Do you assert that the guy who said he wanted to punch you is more typical of Gay Christians than the ones in the OP?
Are you sure he was even a Christian and not just at the church?
Do you concede that the OP was not the broad-brush strawman that you attacked?
How exactly is standing on a corner proclaiming that homosexuals are sinners “meeting” with them? A meeting implies a formal dialoge, not witnessing.
We were in Cedar Springs, not near the church, there was a bar where we were, so if the bar is by the church, then we were at the church, but again, I don’t believe we were near the church.
Nope, didn’t go over to Maple, I think I already said Deep Elm (maybe not spelt correctly) and by Planet Hollywood.
If you talk about sin, then what are you using as a reference? Sin is a transgression of God’s law.
I never said the guy who wanted to punch me was a Christian.
We weren’t at the church.
I don’t know what OP means? So I also don’t know who the broad-brush strawman is that I attacked.
How exactly do you find that I was standing on a corner proclaiming that homosexuals are sinners? We would hand out funny tracts, and talk to a lot of people. You want to talk about meeting with them, do you know why one of the guys was there? He was a worship leader who’s wife left him for the pastor. You don’t get to hear stories like that by standing at the corner having no dialogue. So please don’t pretend to know what I was doing. Some of the stories I know I’d never repeat, and they really did break my heart.
Do you take issue with Homebrew’s assessment that you were probably not there because you find the grass to be an especially lovely shade or orange? IE that you were there specifically because you knew that if there was one area to find gay people or gay-friendly people, that was it? It’s not a strained assessment, IMO.
I’m officially confused, but don’t let that get in the way of me posting;) Let me ask again, and hopefully in a more clear way: what do you have as evidence that he clearly meant that you, specifically, Svt4him, had said something anti-gay, as opposed to the general “you” (i.e. any other christians who had been in the area … for the orange grass, no doubt;)) or the more specific “you” i.e. the group you were with?
Just on a tangent here, given the amount of anti-gay … ness associated with conservative religious groups and the south (and the fact that a Venn Diagram of the two wouldn’t have a whole lot of area covered by one but not the other, at least as concerns the US), do you find it surprising that a gay Christian, upon seeing a group of people previously unassociated with the area (if I missed where you said you regularly went there and you had seen this person before), thought it likely that you were there to spout off in an anti-gay manner?
The burden of proof would be on you to prove that, just as it was on otto to show how these gay Christians were better than the straight ones who came in protest of them (among other things). He cited evidence (and as has been pointed out by a few already, he wasn’t speaking completely seriously. I’d take issue with the notion that ALL gay christians are better than ANY straight christian, and I wouldn’t be alone) in his OP.
I fail to see how any hostilities were provoked by the gay christians in the cited story in the OP. Maybe I’m reading that point of yours wrong, though:)
I do not see that argument being borne of the cited article in the OP. But for the purpose of your argument, that is not entirely a cop-out. If someone attacks me with a knife, for example, and I believe that to be an attack on my life, I will render that person unable to attack me as I see most aptly fit. End of story. If that requires (as in, not just in my judgment but objectively) killing the person, I am prepared to do so. I do not believe this to be improper. But I dearly hope I am never in a position where I have to act out in violence at all. That said, I know how to defend myself, and inasmuch as I am able to do so justly, I will.
That is a good thing to have said on this MB:)
What is “it”?
That is also a good thing to have established on this MB, as there are others (I am sorry to say) who, though they claim that all sins are equal in the eyes of God, don’t exactly go out preaching against the child-beaters of the world (let’s see if we can manage, SDMB, NOT to link to those threads. They’re [the threads] dead for a reason). Yet they feel completely justified in railing against homosexuals regardless of what they might know (or, more likely, not) about them.
I am unable to parse this sentence. Can you clarify?
Don’t mean to be unnecessarily rude here, but show me ANYONE God doesn’t love. The implication there is heinous in extremis: “It may be true that God loves [person].”
Is it therefore your assertion that homosexuals need to change? If so, why?
Funny, I remember lots of people asking what they need to do to be saved, and it boils down to a few simple things, IMO:
Love God
Love His people (i.e. everyone)
Don’t do bad shit
Repent of the bad shit you do and try not to do it again
Unfortunately, the first two on that list are often studiously ignored in favor of the other two, which allow for much scorn and castigation to be thrown down upon [insert group a particular christian/christian group doesn’t like].
Not quite. First you’d have to establish that the warning signs were in a place where I could have seen them, that I did see them, that I was even driving the vehicle, that I could have obeyed them assuming I had seen them (you don’t know that I experienced brake failure, for example), etc.
And assuming all this, if I know someone paid the fine for me the first time I’m likely to think “well, maybe someone will pay the fine the second time” and so on. For some, only when one is actually punished does the severity of the law and the requirement to obey it come into place. And since it is rather impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that, for example, someone who does not repent of their sins at all goes to Hell, it is rather difficult to convince someone that God’s rules actually get enforced.
And what is sin, in your view?
So what exactly does transpire when someone goes to hell?
It was the implication in your “The Bible says” statements, which imply that you have some sort of perfect or total understanding of them inasmuch as you are able to say, without error, what the Bible says about any one thing. I gather that this is not your assessment of your knowledge of the Bible, which means (IMO) that it would not be an intellectually honest thing if you were to say that again (unless you do possess that which I mentioned before re: perfet/total understanding etc:)). It’s not breaking the rules on this MB as far as I am aware, but it doesn’t really help your argument either. YMMV:)
It is my belief that to say that one knows something about the Bible inasmuch as one is able to go beyond simply saying “I am reading this verse, and here are the words in front of me” is either a sign that one is the messiah or that one overestimates one’s self. Let’s use the example of two French verbs (and I’m pretty confident that, if you don’t know the verbs, Polycarp will be able to put it to you in a more understandable fashion):
Savoir
Connaitre
The first means to know something about something. Like, say, I know that I am able to type well (hypothetically speaking). This is knowledge of a thing for certain.
Connaitre, on the other hand, means more “to have acquaintance with”. As in, I have met you/I know you. I do not know you completely, and there are precious few things I know of you well enough to say they are fact (one of which is that your SN on this MB is Svt4him).
Let me try another example just in case. I am aware that the Bible talks about love. I believe that it says certain things about love, but I would not say that my beliefs are objective fact at all because that, to me, is to say that I have some complete knowledge (or even more absurd, authority over the knowledge) of it.
It is my opinion (carefully considered and yet to find exception) that there is not a soul on Earth who has the first type of knowledge in a complete and total way. That is, nobody on Earth is able to say with 100% complete accuracy and completeness, “The Bible gives this lesson on ___”, for example.
Is this distinction clear?
In the interest of sharing more about this story, are you able and willing to explain/detail some/all/one?
I believe there is a gap between what I intended to convey and how you interpreted it. I think that looking back upon my savoir/connaitre example should clear that up. But inasmuch as there is more to this than that, consider this:
If it is clear that one is to honour one’s parents, and no harm comes from not questioning it (to judge validity, as opposed to examining what it means), then it is important to consider how one can go about doing that. IMO:)
This statement is unclear. Do you mean here “the straight people never made a comment about the sexuality of the gay people?” I think that’s what you mean, but the meaning is sufficiently unclear that I’d like a clarification:)
This is unfortunately untrue.
I am pleased that you understand the difference between “I believe” and “I know”, inasmuch as it has caused some rather bitter disputes in the past when people were unwilling to say that they might be wrong. There is nothing, in my mind, wrong with the possibility that one might be wrong, so long as one is willing to accept it and has sufficiently (the definition of that word certainly being up for debate:D) questioned one’s beliefs.
What sort of account do you mean?
An important distinction here, I think, is that if one wants not to go to jail, God will not require that person to do so. Hell, IIRC, is defined (though this is from a Catholic doctrine class and as such may be different from your idea) as the absence of God, and so someone who desires to be in God’s presence will not and cannot go to Hell. However much your son (hypothetically speaking) wishes to remain outside jail, the law says that he is to be placed there. I disagree with any notion that God’s law requires that anyone be placed in Hell if they do not so desire it.
I am interested in seeing an elucation of this point:)
IMO, yes.
Let me use a somewhat strange example for your last paragraph. The 1927 Yankees relied heavily upon power hitting and their batting lineup was referred to as Murder’s Row. The 1986 St. Louis Cardinals did not, IIRC, hit more home runs as a team than Roger Maris hit in 1961. Both were superb baseball teams. Both won many games. Both won the world series. Yet both took strikingly different approaches to scoring runs, and the managerial squad, ownership etc. relied on different qualities in determining if someone should play for them. Yet both are baseball teams, and both are good baseball teams because the end result, though the means were different, was the same.
This analogy is made totally independent, btw, of the two religious systems (Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witness) you used. Feel free to substitute “catholic” or “protestant” or “lutheran” or anything else if you so desire (just make a note of it:)).
Are you able to cite evidence to support your assertions on their opposing views on Christ and their extra-Biblical writings (BTW, no sufficiently-large denomination that I am able to recall does not have extra-Biblical writings, which causes me no small amount of puzzlement as to why you bring it up)?
It is my opinion that, other than speculation (however academically and earnestly), one cannot arrive at a total and complete and perfect definition of what a Christian is. God alone determines that.
Oh, but I could tell you about the King James Only group who use to talk to us in Deep Elm. Man, that was interesting. Did we talk to them? Of course. They thought we were wrong, but we still talked.
Pardon me for jumping in here, ‘pun’, but this one I can answer with certitude, albeit “upon information and belief.” First point is to establish that the God we are talking about is the God of Christianity, i.e., YHWH known as the Holy Trinity. I will grant that Freyr, zev_steinhart, cmkeller, IzzyR, Aldebaran, and one or two other folks, mostly observant Jews, may have other standards than the one I’m about to discuss – but to avoid a total hijack, let’s let them comment as and if they wish. With that out of the way then, a concern about what constitutes God’s law will, of necessity, be vitally important to those who have taken Jesus as Savior and Lord. By that last, then, they are agreeing to do what He says. So what are His instructions?
How does one love your neighbor? Well, God is fond of offering a blessing and a curse, so let’s look at that.
In other words, if you sit in judgment over your fellow man, and condemn their sin, God will sit in judgment over you, and condemn yours. As you would be judged with mercy, compassion, and forgiveness, therefore, render mercy, compassion, and forgiveness to your fellow man.
To drive the point home even firmer, Jesus says, in effect, that the two commandments are synonymous, that He will account whatever you do to another as done to Him:
Umm, these are all direct copy and pastes from Svt4Him’s posts.
and then:
(Bolding mine.) Sorry, dude or dudette, but I see a contradiction there. Did you, or did you not, go there specifically to meet with the gay church? If you claim not, was your decision completely random? I know nothing about the geography of Cedar Springs, but I’m doubting that it was just a handy coincidence there was all these convenient gay “sinners” nearby for you to witness to. And if you weren’t meeting with the gay Christians, how do you know the people who caused these “incidents” were a) gay or b) Christian?
I think heterosexuals should be allowed to mate only under government-controlled conditions for the maintenance of the population and should otherwise be kept in cages betweentimes.
Why is my absurd assertion any more ridiculous and fantastic than yours, Nomadic_One?
True enough, but then let me explain. Did we go to the church? No, did we meet with people from the homosexual church? Yes. Did we go to the Mormon church? No. Did we meet Mormons? Yes. Did we go to the KJV only church? No. Did we meet KJV only advocates? Yes. Contradictions? No. Now, I have to say first that I am male, so it would be dude. Now did we go to bars? Yes, in Cedar Springs in Deep Elm, in just about any place we could. But if there was a chuch near where we were, does that mean that we were there for the church? If that was the case, one could never preach in my home town.
Now there are more than one person asking a heck of a lot of questions, so I can’t answer them all, and I probably couldn’t answer them all. But there are some I will. A Christian is a disciple of Jesus. Can a disciple be defined? Sure it can. Now works were brought up, are works important? Yes. Are we saved by works? No. We are saved unto good works, not by our good works. Love God and love your neighbour cover all ten commandments. Look again at the story about the rich young ruler. When he was told to see everything, Jesus was saying that he loved his money more than God, which was the first commandment.
Now God will not send someone to hell that doesn’t want to go there? That’s a great thought. Just like our civil law, if someone doesn’t want to go to jail, the judge then just lets them free.
Every religion has extra-Biblical books is also not true. And there are few religions that promote those extra-Biblical books above the Bible, the Book of Mormon being one of them. As for the different views of who Jesus was, one says He was an angel, one says He’s Lucifer’s brother. Feel free to do a bit of research if you don’t believe me. It’s not terribly hard, go to the Church of Jesus Christ or the Watchtower Society and search it yourself, since it doesn’t matter what I anyway.
Now this is a point I still am at a loss. Do I think the guy who wanted to hit me was saying he wanted to hit me for what I did or did not say? What the heck? You guys are more able to tell me what he was saying that I was even though I was there? Come on. That’s just silly, IMO. I was there…I heard him…that didn’t end there, we did talk about the fact that I didn’t say anything, and he didn’t hit me.
True enough, but then let me explain. Did we go to the church? No, did we meet with people from the homosexual church? Yes. Did we go to the Mormon church? No. Did we meet Mormons? Yes. Did we go to the KJV only church? No. Did we meet KJV only advocates? Yes. Contradictions? No. Now, I have to say first that I am male, so it would be dude. Now did we go to bars? Yes, in Cedar Springs in Deep Elm, in just about any place we could. But if there was a chuch near where we were, does that mean that we were there for the church? If that was the case, one could never preach in my home town.
Now there are more than one person asking a heck of a lot of questions, so I can’t answer them all, and I probably couldn’t answer them all. But there are some I will. A Christian is a disciple of Jesus. Can a disciple be defined? Sure it can. Now works were brought up, are works important? Yes. Are we saved by works? No. We are saved unto good works, not by our good works. Love God and love your neighbour cover all ten commandments. Look again at the story about the rich young ruler. When he was told to sell everything, Jesus was saying that he loved his money more than God, which was the first commandment.
Now God will not send someone to hell that doesn’t want to go there? That’s a great thought. Just like our civil law, if someone doesn’t want to go to jail, the judge then just lets them free.
Every religion has extra-Biblical books is also not true. And there are few religions that promote those extra-Biblical books above the Bible, the Book of Mormon being one of them. As for the different views of who Jesus was, one says He was an angel, one says He’s Lucifer’s brother. Feel free to do a bit of research if you don’t believe me. It’s not terribly hard, go to the Church of Jesus Christ or the Watchtower Society and search it yourself, since it doesn’t matter what I anyway.
Now this is a point I still am at a loss. Do I think the guy who wanted to hit me was saying he wanted to hit me for what I did or did not say? What the heck? You guys are more able to tell me what he was saying that I was even though I was there? Come on. That’s just silly, IMO. I was there…I heard him…that didn’t end there, we did talk about the fact that I didn’t say anything, and he didn’t hit me.
Actually, “Yes” is the correct answer. Please read Tanaqui’s post again. Pay careful attention to the quoted phrases “we use[d] to go and meet with the homosexual church in Cedar Springs” and “We did not go to the church, nor did we go to any other church while we were there. We went to the streets.” There’s a contradiction. The first says you went to meet the homosexual Church. The second says you went to the “streets” near a bar.
If you went to meet with the gay church goers you were in the 5900 block of Cedar Springs. If you were near a bar, presumably JR’s (ummm hard-bodies) or Throckmorten Mining Company (ummm bears - I don’t discriminate), then you were down in the 3900 block of Cedar Springs. They aren’t near each other. You went to one or the other. In either case, you were there to intentionally witness to homosexuals. Over in Deep Ellum, I guess you wanted to catch the goths, hippies and college kids.
From this, we can only gather that you think homosexuals and folks going to bars to party need savin’. Fine, whatever. But you should know that we’re all sick and tired of being witnessed to. We particularly don’t like people with big red crosses hangin’ out in front of the Crossroads Market and JR’s getting in the way to our brunch on Sunday morning or cruisin’ on Saturday night. And you sure better not get in my way when I’m head to Hunky’s for a burger. Do us a favor and stay off Cedar Springs unless you’re just there to shop or party. The guy who expressed his frustration at being called an abomination didn’t strike you, so comparing it to the behavior of the protesters outside the MCC is a poor comparison. Had he hit you, then you might have a case of a gay person behaving badly.
And if you think some random gay guy expressing his frustration is severe, I dare you take your cross totin’ selves up to Hole in the Wall on Harry Hines on a Saturday night and see what the bikers have to say.
coughs My my my, we’re all getting so worked up here.
Where to begin…
Major kudos to the MCC church for handling the protestors so well. It takes class and vision to do something like that for people who make your blood boil. And sometimes they do. I’ve experienced that, and it can be very hard to suppress. They did, and that speaks well of them.
No matter how much someone makes your blood boil, violence or threat of violence should never be the answer. The person who threatened you, Svt4Him, has no excuse for doing so. Yes I realize a lot of gay women and men have been hurt badly by fundamentalist churches, but that is flat out no excuse to perpetuate the cycle. Understandable does not equal right.
To all those who claim I cannot be gay and a Christian, or that I am a Christian and a sinner for being gay, I have but two rather rude words: sod off. In the nicest possible way, I would like you to take your pronouncements and shove them where the sun does not shine. Why? Because I don’t give a rat’s ass. The only person who can tell me I’m not a Christian is me. Its a matter of heart, not dogma, and in my heart I know precisely what I am: a gay christian, without shame or regret for either part. Am I a sinner? Absolutely. I sin every single day, and struggle to improve myself every time. I’ll never be perfect, but the road is what matters, not the goal. Am I a sinner for being gay? No. I would be a sinner if I lied about my feelings and emotions, suppressing and hiding my talents in the dirt. Instead I will take what I have given and multiply it through my actions. I have been given the gift of passionately loving others, and the only shame would be to let that go to waste, either by abusing it or ignoring it. This I shall not do, regardless of whether that person is male or female.
See, I’ve grown tired of the Bible verses that constantly get trotted out in defense of your views. Leviticus is a mockery, and St. Paul was an absolute prick at times. He had vision, but he was still human, and therefore could still be a giantic moron with his head shoved so far up his rectum that his kidneys got a nasty shock. Its part of the grand tradition called human nature. I’ll take the good stuff, the incredibly beautiful stuff (his speech on what love is), and dump the part where he doesn’t seem to have a fucking clue (women = inferior, slaves be obedient, sodomites = morally corrupt).
I’m not looking for your approval anymore. At some point one realizes it just doesn’t matter. You can preach at me, condemn me, call me a false Christian, a mockery, pre-emptively de-fellowship me, hell excommunicate me too. You can do whatever you like with your opinion, except make me believe it.
So, once again, I recommend you sod off and preach to someone who cares. I realize some people are going to flip out because I was rude, but hey… sometimes its simply worth it. I realize Polycarp wants to dialogue and find common ground where it can be, or at least fight Biblical ignorance, and that is a wonderful mission to bear up under. He has my undying respect for it, as do Siege and all the other kind people who have sallied forth into the fray.
But y’know what? I’m tired of trying to be nice. That doesn’t mean I’m going to be mean, hell it doesn’t even mean I’m going to slam your beliefs or call you false Christians. Its just not my call, and I don’t think its what Jesus would have wanted. So instead I’m just going to do what I feel in my heart is right, and stop trying to live my life precisely as an ancient book, sometimes full of good advice, tells me. It doesn’t know me, so why should I pretend it has all the answers I require?
I was taught that my body is a temple, but not in the new age yoga kind of way. My body is a temple, because it contains a very holy object: a soul. And that Jesus resides in me if I let him. I believe I have Jesus in my heart, and thus I must follow where it leads, though it may upset some, though the road may make me stumble and fall, though I do not know the end. I follow my heart, and for now that is enough.
Believe me, I’m too curious to let it slide:)