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I read the title of this thread to the tune of Monty Python’s Spam
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It doesn’t quite scan, but…
Priam, Priam, Priam, Priam, Priam, Priam, Priam, Priam, Lovely Priam, Wonderful Priam!
(alternatively, I hesitate even to call it a Priam!)
SO what are you saying, Elmo is a Friend of Dorothy? Jeez, first it was Tinky Wink and now Elmo.
Dammit…
But I don’t believe Airman is prejudiced. He’s married to a flaming liberal who wouldn’t be with him if he were. I respect MsRobyn intelligence and integrity far too much to think that she would marry the person you describe. Airman and I always hang out at Dopefests, and he never fails to give me a bearhug when we leave. Would someone who was sincerely anti-gay do that?
Moreover, while I don’t know if one person can alter another person’s views in a sudden, quantum jump, in my personal experience I’ve been told on a few occasions that knowing me has made former 'phobes reconsider their prejudices. We afferct people by a word or a comment that resonates strongly with the other person yet is forgotten by us.
I agree with you 100 percent that homophobia must be fought at every turn, but I think that our choice of tactics differs.
OK. Thanks for the clarification. FWIW, Airman never struck me as a homophobe until he dared me to call him one in my “performance art thread,” which he referenced above.
OK, lissener, here you go, as requested.
Gobear, your objections are noted and elaborated upon towards the end of that thread.
Thus ends my alleged hijack.
Airman Doors said:
lissener said:
Apparently you have trouble reading too, lissener. Airman said that your definition of homophobe is someone who doesn’t agree with you. Whether or not you specifically named someone as a homophobe is irrelevant. You did imply that anyone who disagreed with you is a homphobe, From your original thread (titled “Homophobes can suck my dick.”)
homophone - someone who sounds very gay, especially on the telephone.
homophoney - someone who only pretends to be gay.
homofeeb - someone who is very bad at pretending to be gay.
I just assumed you chose to leave out the pis between the a & m.
I really don’t want to go into the spin-off thread but I will if the consensus is that this is a hijack, but…
Does the fact that straight person A enjoys the company of gay person B and even goes so far as to enter into physical contact with him really speak that much about the alleged homophobia of person A? This strikes me as perilously close to the “I can’t be a homophobe, one of my best friends is gay” defense. It’s BS when the straight person does it and it’s BS when a gay person excuses a homophobic straight person with it.
Please note that I am not accusing ADUSAF of homophobia or gobear of being an apologist. This is a point of general discussion, not an attack on any specific person or people.
I think it does. After all, the distinguishing characteristic of a homophobe is that he dislikes gay people. So if one can demonstrate that person A likes at least one gay person, then the case for person A’s homophobia is at least weakened.
Airman is a forward, honest, open guy without one ounce of guile or meanness. You don’t have to depend on my word–any of the MADs can vouch for him as well, plus he married a sensational woman, which speaks favorably for him–MsRobyn suffers no bigots, and she sure wouldn’t marry one.
Has Lissener yet to work out that the personal is political? Whomever you are, you are representing something (whether willingly or unwillingly, consciously or unconciously) and people will form opinions because of how you represent it. If you understand this, it is a powerful tool for making social change - as I believe people were trying to say in the trainwreck thread previously mentioned.
gobear, will you marry me? 
Robin
gobear not to really challenge your position, but could you explain how it differs from “I’m not a racist, one of my friends is black” ?
now, wouldn’t this have been funnier (under the circumstances) if it’d happened on one of the times you’d forgotten to log off Airman??
d & R 
I am not saying anything about Airman Doors, but at NYDope, Joe_Cool and jerseydiamond approached me most enthusiastically and begged to have their picture taken with me.
(On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of politically committed gay guys who won’t touch me, but that’s a topic for another day.)
The line goes, “Some of my best friends are black,” and what is meant is that the speaker has a black barber or yardman. I think the difference here is that, for one thing, the roles are reversed–I’m a gay man defenidng someone else accused of bigotry, which, IMO, carries more weight than the example you cited.
Oh look. I new thread.
click <read>
Oh no.
<read>
OH NO!
<read>
NOOOOO!
SMITE
You misunderstand.
You believe that because some one has a person they consider to be both a friend and that person is in ‘a particular group’, that friendship is evidence that the person is not (in this case) homophobic, a racist etc.
And I’m wondering how that balances against the prototypical bigot who opines that the fact that they have a friend who is in that group is evidence the person isn’t a bigot.
I understand that in this case it’s you who’s doing the defending, but the positions (IMHO) seem similar.
If it matters, I do not necessarily believe that a person who believes their church’s teaching that homosexuality is a sin, must also be a homophobe, so I would not classify Airman in the ‘must be’ category myself.
Just wondering what’s different about it. we certainly would (I think) reject the bigot’s ‘proof’ that he wasn’t one 'cause he would break bread w/a black man from time to time. (Think Archie BUnker’s feelings about Sammy Davis Jr. for example)
I think wring has a point. I know racist people who have a few black friends, real friends whom they visit at home. Yet they still see them as inferior. When confronted with the disconnect, they’ll say something like “They’re one of the good ones.” Meaning, of course, that they are an exception to the rule.
'phobes and Racists can both make mental disconnects to be friends with individuals they know personally, yet still hold bigoted views about the group in general. They are still bigots.
And, of course, there’s the example of Henry Ford. Ford financed the publication of the rampantly anti-Semitic Dearborn Independent. Yet, Ford had a number of Jewish friends, whom he considered exceptional examples of their “race”.
In Ford’s case, also, he did change his mind and in 1942 wrote a letter of apology for the publication of the Independant’s antisemitic content.
So yes, a bigot can simultaneously have friends among the group he despises, but sometimes the contact with those out-group members changes their mind. Getting back to the OP, this is what PFLAG hopes to achieve, as I understand it.
Oops, I put actual cites in a Pit thread, sorry