No, I’m having FRIENDSHIPS. You have no idea what you’re talking about and you’re making accusations about me because you can’t wrap your tiny head around the idea of people being friends with their exes. You are the one with the problem here, not me. I don’t stop loving people and kick them out of my life just because I don’t want to fuck them anymore. Got that?
No, you probably don’t. Too bad for you.
I am not friends with any exes… but only because my exes were both assholes.
I am, however, friends with a few guys I slept with once, and became friends with afterwards.
I’m able to be friends with them because of one or more of the following reasons:
The sex was so bad it is not an experience either of us would care to repeat
They’re my friends and thinking about them as anything would now be too weird
I’m totally married and unavailable
They’ve never tried anything on
My husband is cool with them.
My sister is about to move into a flat with a former friend-with-benefits…her boyfriend doesn’t seem to mind, and she’s admitted to me that the idea that she ever slept with this guy squicks her out because they’ve become such good (platonic) friends.
It’s possible to move on, and to have friendships with exes that don’t cause problemswith your relationships or develop into anythin gmore than friendships.
So look, talk to her about “Ray”, ask her how seeing him made her feel, ask her what they talked about, ask her if you need to worry.
She either met up with him and thought “wow, why did we ever break up”, or “wow, what did I ever see in him” or “wow, nice guy, but he still does that really annoying thing that means I could never have a future with him”.
Find out.
Ignore msmith537.
“A friendship between a man and a woman which is not based on sex is either hypocrisy or masochism.”
I kind of always held this to be true. To those of you out there saying you are friends with exes and you have no desire for them anymore other than their mind - if you are being 100% honest with yourself, then can you be 100% sure the ex doesn’t still feel attracted to you, even if he keeps it to himself -kind of hoping if stays your friend and close emotionally he may have a chance again? He may even date and get married, but still has some faint fantasy about being with you?
How many people out there have had close friendships with someone of the opposite sex (assuming you are straight of course) that you never felt any kind of physical attraction to at all ever? Can you be sure they never felt some physical attraction toward you?
My current girlfriend is pretty close friends with an ex - though they dated for like 3 weeks in middle school and didn’t sleep together. They have been close friends their whole life (late 20s now). She tells me that she has no attraction to him whatsoever, and I tend to believe her. But, its also obvious that the guy is still in love with her, and probably always has been. He’s married now, and I hang with him at times, and he is perfectly nice and innocent and no threat and wouldn’t try anything, but its also obvious that he holds something for her, that he will never attempt to act on, and knows it would be rebuffed = masochism.
I’d give a good example of hypocrisy if anyone wants to hear it, but I think this is getting too long already…
In response to A.R. Cane, I don’t know what’s unloving about listening to her vent about her car. Maybe the language I used here conveys dismissal, but if my girlfriend was injured or anything serious had happened, I would probably be in Oregon and not posting on a message board. Yes, I do care that her car was damaged; yes, I do care that she was in something of a frightening situation; yes, I was as empathetic as one can possibly be over the phone. My goal in even mentioning it here was to point out that she had a very good reason to not accept my phone call earlier yesterday.
I know that she wouldn’t lie about an automobile accident. However, some of the posts here have been a little left-field, and I want those posters to know that her lying about the car accident isn’t even a remote possibility.
So basically, with my last post to the thread I was trying to clear her name a little bit. I don’t really want to leave the thread and let people (even virtually anonoymous ones) think that my girlfriend is a bitch, because she isn’t.
Finally, my goals in starting this thread were to help me see this whole business from her perspective and maybe reinforce what my legitimate concerns (if I had any: at the time of posting, I didn’t know) were. It’s much better to analyze myself in this sort of environment with a various sources of anonymous input because I don’t have to bother my real-life friends with every little neurotic thought I’m dealing with.
Some people are better than others at internally working out their thoughts and difficulties. I am not always good at it when it comes to something that I really give a shit about and want dealt with quickly (because in this situation, the way I was feeling was obviously damaging my relationship with my girlfriend). Posting here helps. Again, I appreciate all the input.
I am completely staggered by the number of people who seem to believe that non-sexual relationships between members of the opposite sex are impossible.
I am, if possible, even more surprised at how many of those people feel compelled to insist that their own relationships with the opposite sex must be the model followed by everyone else; that just because they cannot deal with the opposite sex in anything but a sexual way, everyone else must share this inability.
I feel really sorry for you. Its the pity of knowing someone is colorblind and will never see blue - its a beautiful color.
They may not be impossible, but they are also not the majority.
I think the fact that
means that a large number of people do in fact turn non-sexual acquaintances into sexual.
So, being at least somewhat cautious about your partner’s dealings with the opposite sex is logical. After all, there is a 50% chance he/she is someone who has cheated/will cheat.
(Of course, if you know your partner well, you might assume that it is unlikely they will cheat on you. However, I would guess that most people who cheat are not obvious candidates for cheating, e.g. skanky hos and slimy guys)
The other side is doing the same exact thing in this thread. Just because you are friends with members of the opposite sex and would never cheat, that doesn’t prove a thing.
That just means that you are in the 50% of people who don’t cheat. Congratulations. That still leaves half the population who does cheat.
You have my sympathy that you are actually so limited in your relationships that you believe this to be “true” of all other relationships.
There is no question that that situation describes some relationships. It might vary from If I hang around being the good friend, someday the person I worship will return my love to the more mundane I’d do 'em (if the opportunity arose). On the other hand, sexual attraction is simply not the only possible link between persons.
The claim that such is a universal reality sounds, to me, like projection: “I would not be friends with anyone I didn’t hope to screw, so, obviously, no one else would, either.”
Well, I said I kind of felt it to be true. Not knowing the basis and internal minds of every person and friendship in the world, I remain open
Well, this is simply understanding L. Cohen’s quote wrong (and therefore my poor explanantion, perhaps):
He (and I guess I as well) is simply saying that most of the times a man and a woman develop a very close friendship it is the result of:
A) They both were attracted to each other, but circumstances didn’t allow a physcial relationship (one was in a relationship, distance, religion, whatever) so the relationship morphed into a close friendship instead - likely with some small degree of lingering sexual tension
B) One person was attracted to the other. Because of the attention they were giving and amount of emotion and generosity, the other person begins to think “hey this person is pretty cool” and a friendship grows, rather than a relationship. That person may never know how the other person initially felt about them.
So, is it possible for a man and a woman to be friends, completely and innocently? Sure, I guess. But I tend to think that its likely that the basis of the relationship in the very beginning was not completely innocent on both their parts.
Its not just projection. I don’t know a single very close male/female relationship where both parties had no sexual feelings for each other at any time.
First of all I disagree that I am blind to anything. If anything, believeing everything is pure and innocent with no underlaying motivations, emotions, etc. is pretty blind to reality.
Second - what I was saying (and quoting) is not sad. Its just an observational look at human relationships and the associated pyschology. I’m not saying everyone’s friendships are frauds and messed up, just looking at the reality of how they came to be.
Dating is the time to figure out if you’re compatible with another person. If you’re the type of person who’s not comfortable with your SO hanging out with her ex, that’s fine, but you should be with someone who feels the same way. I’m someone who doesn’t get jealous very easily, I still talk to one of my exes, and I know that KeithT (my fiance) talks to and hangs out with a couple of his exes. One of the many things we love about each other is that we’re both comfortable with this and we trust each other in this area. That’s not to say that our relationship is in any way superior to one in which the couple don’t hang out with their exes. The point is that you have to be with someone you’re compatible with. So the people who feel it’s inappropriate to put yourself or your SO in that situation should be with a like-minded person, as should those who feel it’s perfectly acceptable to hang out with an ex. Neither way is more or less “right”; it’s a matter of being with someone who feels the same way as you do.
The big difference is that i’m not universalizing my experience; i’m not claiming that everyone else sees relationships in the same way i do, and i’m not implying—as some have done in this thread—that anyone who claims to feel differently from me is somehow deluded or in denial.
I have never once made any claim that people don’t cheat, and i’m sure it’s true that some people are, in fact, incapable of non-sexual friendships with people of the opposite sex. I’m simply arguing that those who claim that non-sexual relationships are impossible are making assertions that are beyond their possible range of knowledge or experience. Making absolutist claims about human experience and behaviour is, as people should have realized by now, a pretty problematic thing to do.
What if, rather than making “absolutist” statements, we were to say that it is the norm that when a heterosexual man associates with a heterosexual woman for an extended period of time that he is, at very least, entertaining the notion that he might fuck her? Doper men (who seem to be noble, true and interested only in the pure intellect and personality of the female of the species) aside.
They’re sure as hell difficult. But in any event, nobody except one poster noted for his hatred of women is saying that.
But a relationship between a man and woman who used to screw around that involves dinner and a movie 2500 miles from the boyfriend? That does give you pause.
I’d disagree that there can’t be friendship between men and women that’s not based on sex, but I think it needs some clarification. I have many good female friends. I’ll admit that I’ve thought “I’d do her” of, but I also know that the chances of that ever happening are nil. I also have female friends who I’ve got no interest in whatsoever sexually. The lack of interest or possibility of sex doesn’t stop us from being friends. Am I unusual in this way? Maybe. Doesn’t bother me.
Now my wife has remained in contact with her ex-husband. Up until recently (he moved too far away) he would watch our pets when we went on vacation, and we would watch his. She has gone over to his place alone on occasion to pick up or drop off something. I have no problem with this, as I know them both pretty well, know why they got divorced, and why there’s no danger whatsoever of them ever getting back together. It’s kind of ironic, the two of them get along much better now that they’re not married. But I have to admit our situation and how we ended up together is an unusual story.
Does your username refer to an inability to think in anything but binarisms?
Because i never even suggested that i am “interested only in the pure intellect and personality of the female of the species,” or that i never entertain the notion that i might have sex with a woman who is also my friend. This is not a case of men (or women) being either irredeemable sex monsters or self-righteous asexuals.
The question, though, is whether the (sometimes fleeting, sometimes more persistent) sexual thoughts that we might have negate the possibility of non-sexual friendships. The people who spend so much time insisting on the sexual component of a man-woman friendship seem to be implying that this will, inevitably, compromise the platonic friendship in some way or make it unworkable. I’m simply insisting that, even on occasions where sexual thoughts may be present in some way (for one or both people), it need not have any adverse effect whatsoever on the friendship.
That’s probably true, and i should know by now the danger of assuming that that particular poster is at all representative of attitudes on such issues.
In this particular instance, probably, given the details of the OP.
But if my wife flies back to San Francisco to see her family, and tells me that she’s going to see an old boyfriend for lunch or dinner, i don’t give it a second thought. And, truly, whether it was lunch or dinner wouldn’t worry me in the slightest.
And i know she feels the same way about me meeting an ex-girlfriend who i’m still friends with.
Not at all, and I don’t think that you are getting what I am saying. What I am saying is that in the vast majority of cases that I have experienced in my life when you have a heterosexual man that is “friends” with a heterosexual woman he basically wants to have sex with her. I am specifically not talking about you, and you seem to have made it clear that you are different than what I see as the norm.
I’ve been dating my GF a long time and have pretty much fell out of touch with any exes I had. I certainly have girls I’m friends with though. The nature of those friendships is more they are girls in the circle of people I hang out with on a regular basis. I don’t really hang out with them one on one like I might with some of my guy friends.
For example, I would consider myself friends with one of my GFs best friends from college (who is recently divorced). One time we were hanging out at an out of town job fair our respective companies were attending. Now while I can hang out and joke around with her at the job fair, I’m not going to grab a meal or drinks afterwards with just the two of us. Not that anything would happen but why put ourselves in a position that could give the impression of shadyness?
Now I know a lot of people will say stupid shit like “because you are mature adults” and “can’t you control yourself” or whatever. These people are like girls who show up to a guys room at 2am drunk and hang out in their underwear and then are all surprised because he thinks she’s there for sex. You know all those guys who cheat on their wife who said “it just happened”? How do you think it “just happens”?
If you want to hang out with friends of the opposite sex, probably the best thing is to involve your SO so they can meet this person and get comfortible with them. As far as most boyfriends know, that ex from halfway across the country is a former kickboxing champion investment banker who surfs when he’s not competing in iron man triatholons.
The question of whether hetero men and women can be friends without sex being involved is irrelevant to this thread, since it’s about people who have already HAVE had sex. Think about it logically-- if you’ve already had sex with someone, and a relationship, don’t you think you’re in an excellent position to say that you know for sure you don’t want that person sexually or emotionally anymore? That sexual tension that arguably exists between all (:rolleyes:) straight men and women might conceivably be absent in this situation since there is no mystery and the allure is likely gone.
In the case of the three exes of mine that I’m friends with, the sex thing is part of what didn’t work out. We dated, in each case for a year+, and we figured out that we were not compatible on that level. However, there were things that did work out-- we liked each other as people and we didn’t do horrible things to each other, so we didn’t dismiss each other from our lives.
The guy I was living with when we broke up, who moved into a 2 bedroom apartment with me afterwards? I set him up with his wife. They now have two kids. One of the others? I am now good friends with his girlfriend and hang out with her without him. Thus, everyone involved is cool with it. Are these situations indicative of hypocrisy or masochism? It’s kind of insulting to say so, just as it’s insulting to say I’m having “emotional affairs” with these guys. No, I HAD emotional (and sexual) affairs with them, and now we’re just friends. Simple as that.
Why don’t people think it’s a positive thing when someone is friends with her ex? Doesn’t it prove that she’s not an evil vixen who screwed over all her boyfriends so badly that they can’t stand to talk to her anymore?