Oh, and Phase42 - good luck with the Bible typing project!
I mean that they’re not at the swimming hole very often.
Hey, I love sarcasm! Still, I should point out that Christians have as good eyesight as anybody else. The difference, perhaps, is in what we do (or don’t do, as the case may be) with what we see.
It seems that my first mistake in my OP was the phrase “to look at girls”. Perhaps it’s chauvanistic and politically incorrect, but I tend to refer to any female my age and younger as a “girl”. Much the same way that many of the women my age that I know often refer to men our age and younger as “guys” or “boys”. We tend to reserve the terms “women” and “men” for those older than us. My second mistake was attempting to begin my OP with an attempt at humor. In the future I’ll be sure to stick to clinical terms.
What I’m a bit annoyed with here is the general tendency among the respondents to completely ignore my actual question: an attempt to understand a behavioral pattern. Instead, many of you have chosen to root out what you see as my “real motives”. Let me simplify my position: My question is about teenage girls simply because they are the ones exhibiting the behavior I find puzzling. Perhaps I shouldn’t have gone as far as to detail ages - which were guesses anyway, since I don’t ask these girls how old they are.
I’m a listener and an observer. It’s my nature to watch what’s happening or listen to what’s being said around me, and I notice patterns. And sometimes I just wonder about the reasoning behind some of these patterns. Most of the time, I can ask the people who do such-and-such a thing, "Why do you do that? In this particular case, though, I obviously am not going to start walking up to these young girls to ask them, “Why?” because my doing so would make the girls uncomfortable and probably raise suspicions (imagine that).
I apologize for the fact that my question has “creeped out” some people. But if I had evil intentions, I hardly think that I would have provided my real name, location, and the URL to my Web site which contains all sorts of identifying information.
I had kind of hoped to ask the question here and get an explanation, preferably from adult women who might be familiar with this behavior. Instead, I get mostly responses from men, mostly insulting me and questioning my motives.
“A man doesn’t look under the bed unless he has hidden there himself.” – French proverb
No comment here on the creepy question. Personally, I think most women don’t really start to get their hottest until they reach their thirties, and I’ve always sort of thought that. Teenage girls don’t do much for me.
But I will say that Phase42, creepy or not, is a pretty good writer. Of course, so are some of those who are creeped out.
Just an observation. Carry on.
This is exactly the same thing Phase42 does. So, do you creep yourself out? The difference being, he’s engaged his mind, and made some behavioral observations and is curious about them, as opposed to just passively ogling. And, it sounds like you’re the one who’s in denial. If you’re not there just to ogle, what the hell are you there for? But, in any case, it’s perfectly normal for young, healthy women/girls to catch the male eye; we’ve been biologically programmed that way since before we started walking upright.
And, it is an interesting apparent conflict in behavior, which I’ve observed in women of all ages. I’ve seen twenty- and thirty-somethings plant themselves on a towel in the middle of the busiest part of the beach, lie on their stomachs, and pull their bikini bottoms up so that they practically become thongs. Yet, the instant they stand up, they wrap a towel around their waists, as if every guy on the beach hasn’t already seen their butt.
To me, this is an interesting behavior, especially given that most of these women never go into the water. So, why choose the beach for their tanning sessions? And, if they’re so modest, why choose the busiest part of the beach? It’s conflicted behavior, and that’s what makes it interesting.
I don’t think there’s anything patently wrong w/ Phase’s behavior.
Here’s my take: as young (adoloscent) men, we start to recognize our peers as women at this age. We continue to recongnize them as such, even when we get older.
Now, that doesn’t mean its not unhealthy to fixate on teenagers when your older. I agree that it is, but I don’t think that his behavior, as described, qualifies as such. It sounds more like an analytical observation than a vested interest.
In short, I believe its OK (and natural) to notice, but not to really look. I think he’s within these bounds.
Regarding the whole damn conversation, has it struck anyone that our whole approach to this is merely a societal contruct? I mean, several hundred years ago, when people reached reproductive age, they were seen as adults and were allowed to marry, often outside their age group. This was acceptable behavior for the time.
That said, I don’t think it is any more, and I certainly don’t like to see older men chasing younger women who have not yet emotionally matured (and vice-versa).
Perhaps I was unclear. There is a pool at my apartment complex. I will go to the pool and take a swim, and then sometimes lie in the sun and read a book. My purpose in going to the pool is to be in the sun and have a dip. If an attractive girl passes by I notice, as would any man. I get the distinct feeling that our OP is into something else. To wit:
Our OP has gone to the swimming hole with the main purpose of looking at chicks, not creepy in and of itself, but wait…
This pattern of going to the same place, to watch women, over a period of six years begins to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. It strikes me as vouyeristic behavior.
He finds amusement in watching people adjusting what is, in essence, their underware, and then he says he is “annoy[ed]” by the efforts of these girls to cover up. WTF? Why is he annoyed? That doesn’t strike you as being odd? Is that what you call engaging the mind?
Our OPer is not a 15 year old, I think anyone who is talking about a 13 year old girl in a bikini as being a “dark-skinned beauty” is a little off. She’s 13 for crying out loud! 13! Read the rest of that last paragrapg, where he talks about how first this girl walked by, then later another, etc. Its like he’s taking notes in his head about what he is there watching. That sounds like someone who is really into their work. Maybe I’m wrong, and this is all just someone with an engaged mind, but to me it is creepy.
Who ever said anything about videotape or pictures? Interesting that our OP thought to deny that before even being accused, don’t you think?
Cop: “Hi Joe, we’d like to ask you a few questions.”
Joe: “Why do you want to talk to me officer? I didn’t kill anyone.”
Cop: “Who said anthing about killing?”
Joe: “Ehhhh…”
More than a passing glance? First of all, anyone who wasn’t raised in a barn knows it is simply rude to stare at people. When you go to a place where you know there will be young girls for the express purpose of looking at said girls, and then describe how you aren’t just giving them a passing glance, but are really studying them, and their behavior, I think it is odd. ** Davebear** - can you really honestly say that you don’t think there is sometheing wierd here? If I’m the only one, I’ll just go away, and apologize to our OP. Maybe, as a 25 year old male who doesn’t go to swiming holes over a period of six years to observe women and their interactions with their garments, who doesn’t describe 13 year old girls as attractive, I am the wierd one. Could be.
It’s not a question of coverage, it’s about how the girl feels about the social situation. I would feel uncomfortable laying on a beach in my underwear, even if said underwear covers me exactly as a bikini would.
If everyone else is covering up as they walk around, the one person who does not is going to stand out. The last thing a teenage girl wants to do is stand out from her friends.
I think girls’ fashions are more revealing now than in years past also, and as more and more girls get used to wearing less and seeing their friends wear less, the less uncomfortable they will feel about thier bodies in public. This can be seen as a good or bad thing depending on how much of it is due to a girl’s acceptance of her own body as it is, and how much is due to just being immodest, IMO.
It’s not a coincidence that you are not noticing this with only a few girls at a time. The peer group as a whole is very influential at that age, in my experience there are one or two leaders that the others will imitate. Now the one who seems too modest or embarrassed is the one who will stand out. If it is ‘in’ to flaunt your body, rest assured all the girls will do it.
You know, I was going to do a long post with a lot of quotes but it boils down to this:
If you think that it’s creepy or weird that Phase42 has a good memory and likes to watch the female form, then you should examine why you think it’s wrong and see if it applies to the OP.
It’s along the same lines as: “Get your obscene eye off my Art.”
When great authors or philosophers do what Phase42 does (observe human nature and interactions in a particular area over a number of years), it’s called insight. If it is worthwhile insight, well that’s debatable.
I think it’s a comment that perhaps young females are becoming socialized into being bodily confident at an earlier age. Perhaps a comment on the Angel/Slut dichotomy (be modest but wear a bikini) women have in our society. Or it could be a left handed way of saying that we sexualize females too early by crafting them into younger and younger adults.
Anyway, I don’t see anything creepy or weird in the OP.
Well so far Rhum Runner on ly you and Ruby have posed any serious objection to Phase42.
But you have diagnosed him as depressed. (Are you some sort of Doctor?)
Then you started makeing some quotes to make you case that the OPer is dangerous.
Like
Seems bad but include the next couple of lines
It looks much more innocent. In fact he may be wrong about his age guess. It would not be uncommon for men and my 14 yyear old friends to all hang around one OLDER girl if she paid the least bit of attention to us and there wasn’t a boy her age around to beat us back. The fact that she was wearing the smallest swimsuit and was comfortable and not putting extra cover would cause her to gain the attention of 14 year old boys.
You also say
Swimware is not underware. It is outerware. He is annoyed because it puzzles him. He doesn’t understand why expose yourself for part of the time at the beach and cover yourself at other times. This is the heart of the OP. This is the mystery he is trying to figure out and yes, intelligent people find mysteries annoying.
It is a pretty big jump on your part to assume that every trip on his part was solely to look at women/girls. It is called people watching, and people do this all the time. And it makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up? That phrase to me implies that you think he is a danger to society. That is a pretty strong claim to make based on the idea that he watches people in public places and then later remembers what he saw and then tries to understand the girls motivations for what they do.
As far as calling a girl of 13 or 14 attractive or a beauty I do it. (when they desreve it) Beauty exists in people regardless of age. This does not make me a voyeur or a pedaphile or depressed or even naughty. Saying, that girl is beautiful is not a crime. Though I think you would like it to be.
By my reading, at least these people have expressed discomfort with the OP. Steelerphan, Ruby, sumwunsumwer, and me.
I did no such thing.
Outerware, underware, it really doesn’t mattter does it? Functionally, a woman in a bikini is about as covered up as a woman in a bra and panties. I understand what the focus of the OP is, what I am questioning is the other stuff included in the OP.
It isn’t a big jump at all when a guy describes going to the same “small beach area” for a period of six years, recalls the number of thongs he has seen whil at this beach, and admits that his primary purpose in going to the beaach was to look at girls. Given his posts here I would say it is a natural conclusion. As to people watching, surely you recognize the difference between lingering over a cup of coffee at a cafe and taking in the scene and milling around in the lingere department at Sak’s? There is people watching, and then there is creepy dude on the beach looking at young girls. I think there is a difference.
I don’t think I have said anything to the effect that I believe our OP is a danger to society. All I, and some others, have said is that his behavior is odd, and makes us uncomfortable. I don’t think your charecterization of his behavior quite captures what is going on, but you are entitled to your opinion.
Yep, that’s it. :rolleyes:
I would find this far creepier than girl-watching. 
I guess on one hand, I kind of wonder why you pay so much attention to these girls and go there to see them, but on the other, they chose to go out in public like that. I choose not to go out in public like that, so it’s no threat to me. ::shrug::
I find it funny that Phase42 doesn’t think 30+ women are worth checking out. Of course some women lose their figures, especially if they have kids. But there are a lot of really hot women in their 30s and even 40s. I look better at 29 than I did in my teens or early 20s. Girls are always more awkward at that age.
Why do people keep thinking I said that? I didn’t say that. I thought I said that the ones that I might check out are not showing up at this particular beach very often.
And that is why most of them come to the beach not dressed in string bikinis. And since they’re not wearing string bikinis, they don’t need to go through the whole cover/uncover/cover/uncover routine. Which is of course why I didn’t ask my question about them.
I agree. The first time I truly realized there were “hot” 40YO women out there I was 28, and sitting in a bar a few stools down from a gorgeous blonde who I figured was in her early 30s at the oldest. Nope. I overheard her telling another guy that she was 40. And I thought, Wow!
Yes, I can “really honestly” say that, since you ask. You’re putting your own spin on what the OP has said. You’re entitled to do that. But, it doesn’t make you right.
Unless you have more background information than was included in the OP’s posts, you don’t know enough to make the sort of judgments you’re leaping to. He never implied he was aroused by these young girls, only that he admired their beauty. And, to deny a girl’s beauty, based on her age, is absurd. Beauty is ageless.
He didn’t say he went there every chance he got, which might be creepy, only that he’s been going there for six years. So he goes there to girl watch. So what? We hetero males all, with you as a possible exception, girl watch. He happens to have a convenient swimming hole, at which to do so. I think he made it quite clear that the older women who frequent this swimming hole are not of the eye-catching variety. There’s nothing unusual about that. There are very few places in this country where the majority of women over thirty have retained their youthful figures. And, like it or not, we are biased towards finding youth attractive.
So, no, I don’t find it weird, only unusually honest.
As a side note, several people have mentioned modesty, as if it were something to be admired. IMHO, modesty is neither a positive nor a negative attribute. It’s simply an attribute. Some people have more than others.
I’d like to chime in here, just to express my perversion.
I think what a lot of people are missing here is the concept of a 13 YO girl. They can range in physical body type from pre-post pubescent and can appear, aside from age defining wrinkles and such, to be just as developed as an adult woman, albeit rarely for a 13 YO. 14 -16 YO’s tend to be more physically developed, but let’s say we have 13 YO’s wandering about with developed bodies.
So he’s not going to notice? It’s perverted to spot them? And what’s up with it being wrong for a guy to go to the beach to check out chicks in bikini’s?
The reason I bring this up is that for all intents and purposes, my wife can pass for fifteen. She has few noticeable wrinkles, is petite and such, and could easily take the place of the young attractive girls in the OP. I find my wife perfectly attractive physically, and don’t feel like a pedophile as a result of this. Why, you ask? Because she’s 23, and only appears younger.
Emotionally and intellectually, she is my equal. Hence I find her both physically and emotionally attractive.
As I understand it, the OP finds young girls physically attractive, and he has not mentioned an emotional attraction, which would indicate an unhealthy fixation.
Taking away my wife’s intellectual and emotional stature, I would still be physically attracted to her, as she has developed through puberty and has the various feminine attributes men often enjoy looking at, touching, etc.
So let’s not pretend that the OP should be able to peer into the windows of the souls of the girls on the beach and find them emotionally unnattractive. If they’ve got nice bodies and are wandering about in bikini’s he’s going to notice, and find them physically attractive. That’s quite a stretch from seeking out the company of 13 YO’s because he finds them emotionally attractive.
In truth, I found the attitude of the OP to be mainly dissappointed that the only attractive girls that go to his beach on a regular basis are way too young for him.
As a side note, just to avoid confusion, I felt I should clarify that going to the beach to check out 13 YO’s in bikinis specifically would be perverted. I meant when going to the beach, noticing any and all women/ girls/ guys with long hair from behind, etc. that fall into the attractive range is not perverted. That seemed unclear in my last post.
That is where you made the depression call in case you don’t remember. OH and at this point, where you note that something weird is going on the thread, the thread is 12 posts old and you had made 3 of those.
You haven’t said you think he is dangerous but
He gives you the willys.
His op creeps you out.
His defense from your suggestions creeps you out (2 more times)
You think there is more going on in Phase42’s head then Phase42 himself realizes.
He makes the hairs stand up on the back of your neck.
Gee, all of these things and you claim you don’t think that Phase42 is a danger. Why do the hairs stand up on the back of your neck? It not because you are angry it is a fear response. You basically said that Phase42 makes you afraid of something. If not him then what are you afraid of?
Phase42 did say in the OP that this particular trip to the beach/swiming hole he went to ‘look at girls’. He did say that this was his local swimming place and that over the course of six years he only recalls on thong. This lets us know that he is not talking about say Miami or the French Riveria where very skimpy bikinis and thongs are common. He never that the only reason he ever went there was to look at girls. I’m willing to bet that he sometimes actually went swimming. You jumped to the conclusion that he ONLY goes there to watch girls and that this is ‘voyeuristic behaviour’.
voyeuristic from voyeur
From Merriam-Webster online
1 : one obtaining sexual gratification from seeing sex organs and sexual acts; broadly : one who habitually seeks sexual stimulation by visual means.
Where oh where in the OP do you see where he says he gets sexual gratification from observing what girls do at his local swimming hole?
Look, I can’t say I think it’s not creepy, but I can’t say I’d arrest him either. It ain’t illegal, but reading this makes me glad I was the fat girl when I was that age.
Anyway…here’re a couple of things I thought of when I read this.
- I have referred to a baby as “a beautiful baby,” and I have referred to people’s children as the same, in the context, “You have beautiful children/a beautiful family.”
- I have been going to the same pool for 15 years. (I’m 20, btw.) Yes, I do watch people while I’m there.
- I thought Hillary Duff was hot. She’s 15 or so.
Actually I’m an avid bicyclist. This particular park incorporates a walking/biking trail that forms a big loop. About 3-4 miles along the West bank of the Columbia River, across the bridge, another 3-4 miles back down the East bank, then back across another bridge. The swimming area provides a very comfortable place to stop to rest and cool off, with restrooms plenty of drinking water, etc. Which is good, since our Summer temperatures here get into the 95-110 degrees range.
Yeah, I do actually swim occasionally, though not often. I’ve discovered that after bicycling several miles in that kind of heat, plunging into the Columbia River feels like ice water, and several times I’ve felt like the sudden shock almost stopped my heart (my family does have a history of heart trouble.) But I frequently wade in up to my knees, and dip my hands in the water and splash my face to cool off.
One possible answer to why they cover up when they sit up/walk around is that when lying flat on your back, your stomach tends to be flat also, but when you sit up only if you’ve spent a long time developing your stomach muscles can you avoid your stomach looking, well, less flat!