I was thinking more of the oceanic countries when I typed that, but you’re right that Anglophone does include a lot of deeply homophobic Africa.
But I’m going to anyway
I don’t know, did I? I’ve just looked at the list of threads that I started and can’t see anything that similar. Unless you’re talking about the one I did on acceptable levels of male contact which includes some of the same points, but wasn’t directly about the same topic. You asked the question so I guess the burden of proof is on you to decide.
So, apart from nitpicking and suggesting that I’m a blow hard for this topic, was there anything else you wanted to add?
I didnt know I was that efficient that I could manage to nitpick and be suggesting that in the space of two sentences.
I’m afraid the blow hard coating is something you’re doing on your own here.
If you don’t think I’m banging a particular drum too much then why ask the question at all? The only reason I can think of is to suggest that I am, indeed, going on about this particular topic too much. Given you haven’t said anything directly relevant to the content of the OP or anyone else yet I’m not seeing any reason to change my opinion.
But you’re all too eager to paint those vivid word pictures–rather than just say you don’t care for certain images. Images that are **not **really thrust into your face, unless you look at porn indiscriminately.
I got this in highschool (from one source, but just setting the age-level) for being Jewish, of all things. Thought that’d gone the way of the dodo, but I got snark every day from one classmate over it, and while the first day or two (or six) one can let it slide, it’s hearing it every day that gets under one’s skin. I completely understand the OP on this one. It’s one thing to hear the statement. It’s another to get bashed with it, and insult-to-injury is being told “Well, it’s just a joke, you need a thicker skin.”
(As a side note, when the anti-Semitic snarkmeister continued with his off-color jokes, I’d try to defuse by giving him something anti-Catholic. He’d punch me. Not in a jokey-playful way, either. It took all I had to turn the other cheek on that one.)
These aren’t the same things. A group of guys talking about hot women isn’t an invitation for you to share your feelings about hot guys, any more than a group discussion about baseball is an invitation to share your thoughts on cricket.
Well, here’s an incidence I was thinking of when I wrote that. I was at a gay bar, in a group with several gay men (and a couple lesbians, and my boyfriend), and a couple of the guys started talking about things being faggy, or so-and-so being a fag. And I guess I made a face or something, because one of them looked at me and started laughing, joking that he had offended me. I admitted I don’t like that word, but I understand that it’s different when gay guys use it amongst each other. But I am sometimes shocked at the amount of homophobia (and transphobia!) that I hear from liberal gay people. I pretty much keep my mouth shut, because I don’t think it’s my place, but it bothers me.
Anyway, I think the whole thing kinda sucks, and I wish we could move past it. But I live in the Bible Belt of America, and change comes slow down here.
To an extent it depends on what you mean by Anglophone. Even in South Africa, which has the largest proportion of mother-tongue English speakers in Africa, they only make up 8% of the population. (And South Africa has full-on legal gay equality, though social attitudes lag behind.) English is the language of commerce and government in many African countries, but they’re not Anglophone in quite the same way that the UK/US/Australia etc. are. Of course, for mother-tongue-Anglophone countries that are generally homophobic there is the Caribbean.
Actually, I agree with this - I’m middle-aged with no children, and I realise that when I’m in a group of parents sharing anecdotes about their children, my responding with dog or cat anecdotes isn’t exactly appropriate. I’m also a woman who has been in male-dominated professions most of my life; I don’t chime in with details about men I find hot when a group of guys are talking about hot women. Etc.
OTOH, my father was gay and never really OK with it which was sad, and I felt we’d really crossed some sort of comfortable line with each other when we reached a point where we could share bawdy comments on cute guys we saw.
But that said, repeated jokes and nervous/cutesy comments about gayness would certainly get old fast, although humor is a way to distance oneself from something uncomfortable and maybe that’s why some people react that way? I imagibne it’s better than outright hostility or being ostracized.
The “don’t get too close” comment while hugging would bother me a lot.
A possible different take on some of the comments that seem to place distance between people might be, and this might be a stretch, that the speaker is trying to say, “Hey, I recognize that we have some differences, but I still like and respect you. I haven’t pushed aside those differences and I don’t have to fool myself that you’re just like me in order to like you.”
If that isn’t the vibe you get, though, I’d tend to trust your gut. And the hugging and TMI comments make me think your gut is right.
Woiw. Just… wow. Let me translate what you just said into English: “when normal people are talking about acceptable relationships, we don’t want to hear about your disgusting perversions as if they’re in any way comparable”. Good luck convincing me or anyone else that that’s not exactly what you meant by that statement.
True, and I know what you mean. I’m quite liberal in my use of the word fag and faggy because I want to take its power away from it, but if someone said to me “I’m actually uncomfortable with hearing that” I wouldn’t mock them for it or tell them to get over it. I would point out that I’ve got a more legitimate reason to be offended by it than them, but that doesn’t invalidate how they feel (I have actually done this with someone so I speak from experience).
I don’t care about the definition of anglo-phone, I used the term incorrectly and it’s not relevant to what’s being discussed here. Can we lay off the nitpicking?
That’s not the same and I’m a tad insulted that you just compared straight/gay relationships to children/pet anecdotes.
I understand why you don’t, but don’t you realise that it’s just as sexist and oppressive for you to not be able to that with men as for me to have to keep my details of my gay life away from conversations with straight people? Are you saying you’re comfortable with that, or simply resigned to it? Certainly in discussions amongst mixed company I’ve been in women don’t feel they can’t participate equally to the men.
Maybe, or maybe it’s just jerkish behaviour born out of thoughtlessness. I guess the question is where does one end and the other begin? I have to say this thread has made me rethink what I consider acceptable for people to say to me, so if nothing else it’s proven really useful. Thanks everyone.
No, I totally didn’t mean to do that - I was comparing discussions of hot women/men among like minded people of any orientation, or any type of “closed loop” discussion, not gay/straight. I realise that was a bit of a hijack I was responding to.
No, I’ve never - OK, truth, very rarely - felt oppressed or sexually objectified in these situations. Yes, I am totally comfortable with it. I don’t feel that I am “not able”; I just realise it’s sort of out of place so choose not to, same as with making my cute pet comments in a my cute kids conversation. Just as I’m comfortable being with a group of women friends discussing hot actors’ bodies (mmm, Daniel Craig, mmm) and a husband of one of the women might wander in and start making comments about Jessica Alba’s tits or whatever with a group of straight women - that would be a bit weird. It would simply be out of place.
I don’t mean to imply, by the way, that being a woman in a male group is analagous to being gay in a mostly-straight world. I know it’s not the same. My other post was responding to a more specific situation and I answered with an analogy based on personal experience.
Do they “agree” to hug you or simply fail to physically reject the hug?
My point is, you’ve posted on three separate occasions on your cluelessness about other men’s personal space - have you considered the possibility that you’re “that guy”?
