Groups of teens alone at night- am I overreacting?

In My Humble Opinion
21

The situation described in the OP is pretty narrowly defined.

I don’t think the kids in question were in any danger, and at least responsible adults on one end were aware of it. But, one touchy point is the extent to which they could accurately predict the response of the parents on the other side. What will they say when they find their kid home, and learn how she got there? When you assume responsibility over other peoples’ kids, such as at a sleepover, you have to be careful about behaving in ways they will be uncomfortable with. They may not agree that curfew is “a bullshit law.” And they may not wish you to be making the decision as to which laws are or are not bullshit.

IMO&E, it is generally better to be more careful, protective, responsible, and law-abiding when it comes to other peoples’ kids, than you may need to be with your own. I think the parents should have walked/driven the kid home.

Also, speaking in very broad generalities, I think that the reasonableness exhibited by teens in their decision-making somewhat lessens as the hour gets late - and may be further degraded when they are in groups and unfamiliar places - such as out and about in the middle of the night. As a parent, I don’t think you need to be in a hurry to put them in that kind of situation at too early of an age.

22

You raise an interesting point that I hadn’t considered before. But we don’t know that the parents on the other side weren’t awake and aware that they were bringing the kid home. I can easily see them being called, and saying, “OK, we’ll be waiting!”. Omega Glory, do you know?

Also, after thinking about it, I’m not sure that it’s Omega Glory’s job to worry about that in that possibility, save perhaps in a very general “do these people make good decisions while my sister is in their care” sort of way.

Maybe I was too responsible as a teenager, and/or am giving them too little credit for creativity, but I’m not sure how much serious trouble three 12-14 year old girls will get into during a two block walk. I’m also not sure I believe that 14 is “too early of an age” for this sort of minimal responsibility. I was babysitting for multiple young children at that age. But, as I said earlier, I’m not a parent so YMMV.

23

I don’t know what arrangements were made in regards to the younger child. I do know that they didn’t just drop the her off outside her door, because they apparently spent some time at the other house before leaving. The younger girl is related to the older girl, so I’d assume the parents are on the same page.

And this, along with Dinsdale’s point about the way kids can act in groups, and unfamiliar situatons was my main concern. As I said before, there are just some things I wouldn’t do with other people’s kids, especially someone I just met.

24

Sure. In which case, they can come pick up Miss Precious Poopypants (seriously, **9 **years old and homesick for a sleepover? If the other kids weren’t picking on her, I’d have a serious case of rolleyes for that one.). Me, I’m sticking it out in my own home where I have 19 (seriously, who invites 20 kids for a sleepover?!) other children I’ve agreed to supervise for the night.

I certainly would call before releasing their girl, of course. If nothing else, to make sure Mom and Dad were home and didn’t take the opportunity to go out or something. And I would say, “She wants to go home. Do you want to come get her or should I let her walk home with Maddison and Britteney and Jayden?”

But, if I was Britteney’s mom, I wouldn’t freak out that some other adult had an opinion, either (not that I think the OP is doing that.) Part of why I want my kids to expand their social horizons is to learn that the way I do things is just one way, and I’ve got to give other adults room to make decisions for my kids when they’re in their care.

Of course, there are boundaries, but this doesn’t cross them, for me, especially in a small town residential area. I’d be less pleased if the same story took place in my own neighborhood, just because there *is *more trouble to get into, and more roving packs of teenagers looking to cause trouble around here than where I grew up. I’d be more afraid of my kid getting harassed by some gang than causing trouble himself. But I live in a not-spectacular neighborhood of Chicago. (It’s not bad, but not great, either.)

25

I have no idea what was up with the kid, but I’d assume she had trouble fitting in or something. Not necessarily that she was being picked on, but the dynamics of of hanging out with your older cousin can change quite a bit when all of her older (possibly “cooler”) friends are there. I also have no idea why anyone in their right mind would have that many kids over (I wouldn’t even have them all for the day), but they did all have a great time.

Thanks for the different perspectives everyone.

26

I second (third?) the question of “what is it too late FOR?” I find it interesting that society does have this concept that 11pm might be ok, but 1am isn’t, and yet if there was a crazy stalker-theif-rapist-puppy-molesting-axe-murdering-serial-killer out there, I very much doubt that he/she/it will care about what time it is when they commit their crimes (I assume most crimes occur when it’s dark out, but dark is dark is dark, you know?)*

I think this was a perfectly reasonable request of the parents in charge of the sleepover, and good proof that the children asked to escort the young one home were mature enough to handle that responsibility. The OP’s sister will be an adult in four years, but sometime between now and then she has to learn how to be an adult, and trusting her with this task was one of those learning steps for her. I would tell her how proud I was that she handled it well, but remind her that this was a special circumstance, and, bullshit or no, the curfew law is still around and she does need to continue to respect it when she’s out in other situations with her friends.
*[hijack]This reminds me of a discussion I had with a former cow-orker a few years back. The conversation began with regards to the fact that he never had a curfew but his sister, 2 years younger, had an 11pm one, and she was 22, but lived at home. His parent’s (read: father’s) reasoning, and one the cow-orker had been raised to believe, was that it was too dangerous for them to go out into bars, all dressed up and slutty looking (yeah, still talking about his own sister here!) and tempting the men, because after midnight the men might be more drunk and more likely to rape/assault the sexy women. Therefore the women should stay home while the men go out (although, presumably the men go out in order to meet women…!!!)

I replied that this was a much stronger and saner argument for giving the men a curfew, and allowing the women to go out and have fun![/end hijack]

27

Heck, I violated curfew myself all the time. And I have permitted MY kids to violate curfew on occasion. But I’m having a hard time coming up with a situation in which I would encourage kids who have been entrusted to my care to knowingly violate laws - at least without the other parents’ knowledge and permission, and probably not even with that.

You know, that minimum drinking age is a bullshit law. And the legal age of consent for sex. And wearing seatbelts. …

I can’t imagine what would make an adult agree to a sleepover of 20 kids, or including a 9 year old with teens. But once they made that stupid decision, they have a daunting responsibility with respect to those kids. Sure, you hope nothing bad happens. And nearly all the time it doesn’t. And if it does, the other parents are nearly always reasonable. But I’m not going to put myself in the position of rolling the dice for other peoples’ kids, deciding what laws to obey or not, and just hoping things turn out for the best.

28

But it’s entirely possible/likely that it was with their knowledge and permission. Why would you have a problem with it if their parents did not? Not to mention I think you’re indulging in a bit of hyperbole by conflating violating a typical town curfew with underaged drinking and sex. These kids are 14, not 8. They can recognize respect for the law versus a reasonable decision making process.

Either way, though, I think that I agree with WhyNot that the wiser move is to stay with the remaining 15+ teenagers in your house. Not for fear for the kids, more for fear for the house.

29

I too would have called the other set of parents, if for no other reason than to make sure they were home. Many parents, knowing that their kidlet is at an all-nighter, assume that they’re gone until the next morning, and make their own (adult) plans, which sometimes includes “staying out all night partying”. So I would have called, myself. And then asked them what they wanted to do–come and get her, or have the big girls walk her home.

I would also have firmly discouraged inviting a Nine to a Teen slumber party in the first place, but that’s another thread. :smiley: Mainly because in my experience, kids younger than about junior high school age tend to be more prone to the middle-of-the-night homesickness, and need to be ferried home by the party-giver’s dad.

I wouldn’t have a problem with a group of girls being out at any time of night. “Safety in numbers”, etc. and the sex offender leaping out of the bushes can’t grab all of them simultaneously. And even a sex offender armed with a gun and the line, “Get in the car or I’ll shoot you” would hesitate before trying it on a group of girls, since the chances of all of them meekly climbing into his car are nil, not to mention one of them is 100% guaranteed to suddenly begin shrieking “OH MY GOD OH MY GOD!!” Possibly jumping up and down, too. And of course it goes without saying that they’re ALL going to have cell phones…

Actually, the biggest danger I’d see in sending a group of giggly slumber party non-driving teens out in the middle of the night is that they’d get distracted, behave stupidly, as in “let’s walk to the 7-11”, and then not come back for hours and hours, making the chaperones bite their nails with anxiety and fury, wondering whether to call 911. And then the girls would come drifting in, giggling…“We decided to walk to the 7-11 and ohmigod it was so FAR! But, hey, we got you a Slurpee…” And then looking sooooo injured when the chaperone explodes with fury. “You were worried?” and then offended, “You don’t think we can take care of ourselves?” and it all goes downhill from there.

Curfew laws are there so as to give the cops a legal reason to stop a kid, or kids, they see behaving suspiciously. But there’s nothing magical about them, other than the way they give a parent some leverage. Not much, but some.

30

It’s possible that the nine year old was violating curfew with the permission of her parents, but the hosts of the party did in fact encourage at least one kid to violate curfew without permission (my sister) so he has a point there.

Plus we’ve got at least four adults in the house with all the kids, so even if one of them had taken the nine year old home, the others wouldn’t have been left alone to burn the place down.

31

I’m not trying to conflate the two other than to observe that they are both illegal. And I think you are treading onto pretty thin ice when you are making decisions as to what illegal acts you choose to knowingly allow other peoples’ children to do. Hell, IME some kid’s parents might get pissed just at the judgment you exercise re: their kid even if no illegality is involved.

Hell, I disagree with a whole bunch of drug laws. But I don’t think it would be responsible parenting for me to simply pass my kids and their friends a joint, and tell them not to worry about the bullshit laws.

And, when you are dealing with kids 14 and under - either yours or someone else’s - I’m not sure exactly what the benefit is in teaching them to pick and choose which laws they follow and which they don’t.

There also can be liability in some situations. I know they are not the same, but you can be criminally and civilly liable if you allow underage drinking in your home. Or if the kids go out and commit vandalism, under some circumstances a parent might be liable. And what if they happen to get injured in any way.

I don’t know exactly what the legalities are with respect to simple curfew. I doubt there really are any. And the chances are that nothing bad is going to happen. But I still don’t see the upside on taking ANY risk when you don’t need to.

The OP says “…the host’s parents… .” One could have stayed while the other accompanied the kid home.

I guess I’m a domineering, unimaginative, tradition-bound parent in many respects. But as bullshit as many laws are, in general they provide pretty good reinforcements for imposing parental rules and guiding responsible behavior. It is a very simple thing to set curfews consistent with the law. I’m not sure what benefit is derived from having kids out and about after midnite, and could easily list many reasons against it. When encouraging the kids not to be too sexually active or to smoke/drink/drug use too much at too early an age, it doesn’t weaken one’s position as parent to be able to say, “And besides, it is the law.”

Finally, as I’ve said before, I’m not quite sure what kind of parenting model folks are recommending where you tell the kids that following the law is not important. As the person matures, they can make more subtle distinctions, and are completely responsible for themselves. But I don’t see the need/benefit from rushing the process.

32

Good catch.

33

I’ve been trying to figure out exactly what my objection to your stance is, Dinsdale, because I do, and yet I can’t reasonably have a problem with teaching children to obey the law, or respecting other parents’ right to do the same.

I think that it comes down to this: to me, the average 14 year old is still immature, but is old enough to be expected to bear some responsibility with needed chores, and also to think critically about those responsibilities and the world around them. Not just expected to do so, required to do so. They’re abilities that only come with practice, not something that arrives mystically at age 18.

So I read along with your post, nodding my head, thinking “Ok, these aren’t your kids, etc. etc. etc.”. And I agree with your points. Then my brain circles back around to the original question, and I go, “Wait a second. We’re talking about sending a group of teenagers two blocks to drop off a 9 year old with her parents, and return without causing any disasters. Are we seriously suggesting that they’re incapable of that? That they currently respect the curfew laws instead of calling them, correctly, bullshit? That they aren’t aware of the difference between those laws and the other laws they could be breaking? And that the parents are going to be anything other than justifiably annoyed to be hauled out of the house to come get the kid because of this high-minded moral stance?”

34

The chaperones were there to take care of the children. That includes taking them home. And at that age, minors are simply not reliably sufficiently responsible. That’s one reason we call them minors.

35

Do you allow 14 year olds to babysit for you?

36

I think the neighbor’s flowerpots and maybe a couple of road signs may have been in danger.

Quite frankly, having been one once and having been around a few now that I’m no longer one of them, 14-year-old girls in a group can tend toward stupidity. Even if individually, they’re bright kids. I don’t mean they’ll be evil (I don’t see intentional destruction of things that were obviously valuable). But that there could be a lot of “wouldn’t it be funny if…” actions that in a 14-year-old mind “aren’t all that bad, really.” And those actions become more likely if it’s 1 in the morning, and they’re hyped up on sugar and staying up late and the general slumber party atmosphere.

It seems like an incredibly bad idea, especially if there were two adults at the house where the party was taking place - one of them should have walked the kid over.

And I babysat at 14, but I wasn’t allowed to have my friends over to the house where I was babysitting (and they weren’t allowed to have me over, either) for more or less that reason.

37

I think the OP is overreacting.

38

I’ve been trying to think some more about why this bothered me, and **Amarinth’s ** point had something to do with it.

The idea of a group of kids this age being the only ones out on the street just still seems like a very bad idea to me. I’m reading everyone’s counter-points with interest, and do see that the consensus is that this is a reasonable thing to do, but it’ll take me some time to really wrap my mind around it.

To clear one thing up: There were four adults. The parents and the two chaperones mentioned in the OP.

Risha, I would let some fourteen year olds baby-sit, but I have also noticed that the level of common sense goes down as the number of similarly aged kids/teens increases.

As an aside, Duck Duck Goose, a situation similar to your 7-11 scenario happened last year. Except it was an evening trip to Burger King where they didn’t factor in the time it would take to make a three mile round trip walk, and order, and talk with the people they knew etc., with being in place to catch their ride.

39

I would assume that some of the girls had cell phones? Had they wandered off and been gone 30 seconds longer than anticipated, the adults could have called. Had they run into trouble, they could have called.

I think enough people think this is a reasonable idea that you should give the other parents the benefit of the doubt and let it go. You can tell your sister that you don’t want her making any more excursions after curfew, period, but you don’t need to posion her relationship with a friend. Friendships are precious at this age and this isn’t enough of a reason to weaken or destroy one.

As far as the curfew thing goes, it really depends on the local community and how seriously it’s taken there. I think there was a curfew in the small city where I grew up, but it was never, ever, ever enforced to the best of my knowledge–it was archaic. If it’s that kind of curfew, I can see the parents not even giving it a thought.

40

I covered these points in post 20.

This was covered too. The town does enforce it (it’s a fairly new law), but I’m not sure of the circumstances.

Anyway though, thanks for the responses everyone.