This is a non-answer.
Huh? I, I, don’t even know how to respond to this. 
But, that’s HOW things change! That’s what I’m saying.
I am going to be brutally honest here, because, otherwise, why post…I’m going to keep it real, even though I know it annoys some of the posters that I like and respect…
I OFTEN get where you are coming from. I am NOT convinced that every man who is into that MRA stuff is a bigot or an asshole or whatever. I OFTEN think you and Der and others who are often attacked make very good points. While there are feminist posters I respect here, there are others who I don’t think post fairly all the time in these matters, and colander and Troppus are those ‘others’ I refer to.
But in this instance, I bow to colander’s posting. She nailed it by using the black people analogy. She nailed it and was very effective with that post, so much so that I deleted my own long ass post on the topic because she said it better.
Woman have a right to be FREE. That includes being free to invite a man in out of the rain if she chooses. Free to wear short skirts. Free to not carry pepper spray. Free TO carry pepper spray. Free to get drunk and hang out late. If I get hurt while exercising my freedoms, then I hope that both men and women will get loud about it and start effecting some change…changing ideas in society about what is ok and what is not ok, and who is to blame or not. That comfort is NOT cold to me. It would be very warm and inviting. If we want things to change, we have to be willing to live in freedom, not in fear.
ETA: so to answer your question more clearly, being ‘safe’ sometimes means being wrong about something more important, to ME than my safety, which is my freedom.
How about we conduct ourselves as you do, as though we are equal to, as strong as, and as capable as men? How about we behave as though we belong where men belong, and refuse to live a lesser life? Exactly the way you do.
Bullshit. I don’t believe for a second that you are too dumb to understand the link between these two topics.
I am really, really confused here. What makes you think I am not relating? What have I said? “Be careful”? Geez, sorry if it sounded patronizing. It wasn’t meant to be. It’s because I relate that I am comfortable saying such things. Amirite? It BY NO MEANS takes any of the blame off the assholes who perpetrated the offenses. NONE. They should change their behavior and hopefully one day we will live in a world were they do. But right now, we live in a world were such people exist. So until we accomplish the long-term work of changing the mindsets of these people, why not be as safe as you can?
You are a very stupid person and I can see why every place you hang out at immediately bans your ass.
Enough with this “If women were more careful, this wouldn’t happen” garbage. Women are frequently raped when engaging in behaviors that are perfectly safe and are more likely than not to be raped/sexually assaulted by someone she knows. Despite whatever Lifetime movies you’ve seen that you’re basing this on, the majority of women are not raped while traipsing through dark alleys alone at night. Nobody is saying women shouldn’t make efforts to protect themselves, but it is stupid to pretend like if wimmen would just follow the rules (hey, just don’t be nice; you know how men are), there wouldn’t be a problem. But I get your point loud and clear: You can’t and shouldn’t treat men like human beings because it sends “mixed signals” that will place her in danger. Roger that.
Thankyou, I have no problem with people thinking I’m wrong as long as they’ll explain why. Sometimes I am wrong.
That is a reasonable choice, and I kinda addressed it in my post just prior to the one you replied to. I don’t think women, or anyone, should live in a state of paranoia, and if that’s the impression my posts have given then I’ve misspoken. I don’t know if you read my posts in the thread Troppus alluded to when she included me in the group of men’s rights advocates (not a categorisation I’m entirely comfortable with), but many of them were about the problems of just that paranoia. In this thread, I’m talking about the dangers of one particular situation - that of inviting someone you don’t know well into your house - and that, in my opinion, the risk doesn’t seem worth the reward.
I would also hope that, should you get hurt, people would be outraged about it, and in no way am I suggesting that they shouldn’t be. What I’m suggesting is that, if you make the choice not to invite someone in out of fear, then people should also be outraged, and should also attempt to effect change in that situation.
Ok, do it! That is great! That is what I want! Then consider my advice as not safety minded but judgment minded. You aren’t choosing your actions based on what you consider “safer” or “lesser” or whatever but “smarter” or “fuller” or “better” or whatever.
I might roll my eyes and ignore such patronizing advice from an old man, but not from you. Your belief that you deserve the same respect, access, and activities as everyone else matches mine exactly. If I patted you on the head and said “Don’t make trouble for yourself, Jaimes, you’ll get hurt. Just stay home.” you’d fly in my face like like a self-righteous pit bull. Don’t advise women to accept a diminished, lesser experience. You certainly don’t.
I’m new to this discussion so just catching up. But, I read about how women and black men feel oppressed. They are. So are gays. Try being identified by the local police as someone who is mentally ill? They peg you with all sorts of problems that have nothing to do with you!!! Let’s admit it … it is still a white man’s world in business, on the streets and in politics. There are respectable gentlemen who are of every color and ethnic background … although there are fewer and fewer. And, I think that is due, in part, because women have lowered their own personal standards from teenage on … in large part because the media promotes young girls and women should look and act like sluts. Have any men reading this ever watched movies from the 1930s, 40s and 50s and how they treated women in esteem? There was the presumption of actually getting to know each other as human beings. And, no wonder the police have become thugs, most of them, like the many male thugs and men who have no self-esteem or interest in life, books, nature … the world!! Hey, I’ve had my share of sexual partners but I’ve always been very clear if I’m interested or not. But, I don’t want any slut men out there and it is extremely hard to find quality in this life, in men and everything.[FONT=“Tahoma”][/FONT]
Ugh. Look, I’m having conversations with adults who can speak respectfully to one another. Go away.
It’s not about what women in general do, or should do. It’s about what specific individuals do. If you are more careful, it’s less likely that *you *will be one of the unlucky ones who is sexually abused, or worse. That will be the case until all sexual abuse is eliminated.
It sucks, it’s unpleasant and it’s unfair. But that doesn’t make it untrue.
Aren’t you the guy who spanked me for days over carrying Mace while I run?
There is definitely some ‘written word miscommunication’ going on here.
Tell me, what do you think the best way is to lessen this type of sexual assault? Practically speaking. I am a total supporter of womens rights, in every sense.
Saying that it’s only possible for these offenses to occur when women aren’t cautious enough is taking the blame off the assholes who actually committed the offenses.
For me? Arming myself with pepper spray as a back-up plan. Having this kind of dialogue with friends, acquaintances, and online peeps. Shouting down dumbasses like treis who insist that women who say no are lying and secretly want to be coerced into sex. Your turn.
I can never be wholly safe unless I kill myself. My existence in the world makes me unsafe. I am not going to accept responsibility for someone else’s behavior, and no one is going to shame me into it. Men in this thread are saying that the man from the OP was justified in what he was doing, trying to say that MOL was responsible for his actions and that if MOL didn’t want that result, she had to change her behavior. I reject this utterly. Women are not responsible for the bad behavior of men.
Women are not responsible for the bad behavior of men.
Women are not FUCKING RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BAD BEHAVIOR OF MEN.
Yes, because it’s insulting to operate from a default setting that men are dangerous and might want to hurt you.
I’m still not seeing the place where that particular discrepancy is being addressed. By anyone. We were told in that thread that operating under the assumption that you never know about the intentions of people you don’t know and their possible desire to cause you harm was akin to having a mental illness. We were told to “grow up and just live life” because to go every day with that sort of fear was irrational and stupid.
Right now we are being told that you can never be sure about someone’s intentions and that you are exposing yourself to unnecessary risk by allowing someone you just went on a date with to call a cab from inside your apartment.
Insane.
No, I said you were in the wrong for threatening people with it. Thread here, for anyone who cares.