Ok, some answers and I’m sorry if I don’t quote everyone as I answer and/or if I go out of order.
This is, to me, and I believe to him also a permanent relationship. I asked him, to the point, once if, considering everything that goes on with her if he still felt that he could/would want to marry me (eventually – long, unrelated story on that) and he said yes. If this were all just superfluous, I would leave, but I I believe that there’s something to all this relationship that we have and I feel that it is worth working on.
I have in the past pointed out some things that she said that have made me wonder whose best interests she had in mind and things that I felt that if she really cared about him that she wouldn’t have said. I told him flat out that sometimes I think she only has her own best interests at heart otherwise, she would want him to be happy with me since she is, in fact, unavailable.
Cedar Point overnight is not on the schedule anymore. If it does happen, I won’t still be around because I SIMPLY CANNOT LIVE THAT WAY KNOWING THAT SHE IS MUCH, MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN ME. ** swampy**, I know what you.re saying, but I agree with some of the others that perhaps he is the one that is in denial because he TRULY BELIEVES that there is nothing wrong with the two of them spending time together, just, for instance going there for a day. And, actually, he told me just today that if they go and if I go along that it just seems like I’m going along because I don’t trust him since I don’t ride rides.
Sorry, I know my grammar is going downhill.
That’s it. He thinks it’s all ok. There’s nothing wrong to him with having a girlfriend and a very close friend that is an old girlfriend. He truly believes that it’s ok because he’s not going to cheat on me with her for whatever reason. Like I said I want to work this out where I feel like my wishes and needs are being respected, but I’ll be darned if I know how.
I thought so. To him, it’s about trust. That’s not an uncommon reaction from guys.
As I said above, let him know that you trust him. You love him, and you trust him, and you want him to be happy. You don’t trust her. You think she has her eye on him, you think she wants him back, and you love him so much you don’t want to give him up.
And tell him that maybe you’re wrong. Maybe it really is nothing, and she just wants to be his friend. If this woman is important to him, and you’re going to spending your lives together, then you should get to know her too. You should be friends with her. I see nothing wrong with that. The only person who might have a problem with that is Ms. Ex herself, but Charming Boyfriend won’t figure that part out until Ms. Ex is actually already undressed and trying to invite him to switch beds. By the time he figures out you were right all along he’s going to feel terrible about the whole thing. You’re just looking out for him; it’s a sign of your love that you don’t want to see him hurt.
Let me suggest a book for the two of you to read together: What Women Want Men To Know, by Barbara de Angelis. It might make him understand you better. (There’s a section in the book almost exactly about this situation: husband wants to spend time with his ex-wife, and why that makes his wife crazy.) Better still, I say again, make him read this thread. It might put his position in a different light for him.
Your boyfriend is being an ass. He knows this upsets you, yet seems unwilling to compromise on it. And as for “being fair” to both of you–future wife trumps old flame.
Maybe they do just want to re-establish their friendship. But friends generally meet each others’ spouses and sweethearts. There are warning flags all over this–not necessarily warnings that your boyfriend is going to be unfaithful, but warnings that he’s going to disregard your feelings whenever it suits him. I’d be very reluctant to marry a man who wasn’t willing to cleave to me above all others.
To be honest, I think this sounds like someone who has something to hide.
If you were planning an innocent trip out of town with an ex boyfriend and your current guy said he’d feel more comfortable coming along, would YOU try to discourage him from coming? If it was truly an innocent trip, why not encourage the person to come and see that there is nothing to worry about?
His attempt to make this about “trust” reminds me of the stories I’ve heard about cheaters who get caught sending incriminating emails, phone calls, texts, etc. and try to turn it around on the discoverer by whining about their privacy being violated.
It also seems pretty jerkish to me that he would say to just stay home instead of looking into how you can be a part of their fun. I’ve never been to Cedar Point, but I bet they have activities that people can enjoy even if they can’t ride the hardcore rollercoasters and such.
My boyfriend is my favorite person in teh world. If he wanted to tag along with me on something, there’s no way would I tell him to just stay home - I’d want him there (even if I was hanging out with a friend from the past - since, again, he IS my favorite person, more important to me than any other friend).
I think you deserve someone who feels that way about you too.
lavenderviolet, for many guys, it really is about trust. If you insist upon reversing the genders and say “what would I, a woman, do in this situation?” you’ll get a different answer. Because guys are generally clueless about relationship stuff and interpersonal politics.
I highly recommend that book, by the way; that’s where I read all about this stuff, from a woman who’s done relationship counseling for years and polled hundreds if not thousands of men and women.
He’s right, you weren’t there back then, you don’t know all about it and you can’t share the reminiscing. But…you are here now, and now is what we’re talking about. So if they want to talk about the old days, they can share those stories with you and then you’ll know them, too. And you’ll all be able to share new times and get to know each other. There isn’t anything about your presence that prevents them from talking about the fun they used to have, and sharing it with somebody new might make it more fun.
He needs to include you in this. More than that, he needs to respect your need to be included. It should be important to him not to do things that hurt you.
It’s possible that he is sincerely concerned about trust. I guess the way I see it, he’s acting the way I’d expect someone who had the wrong intentions to be acting.
I do trust him. When the overnight situation came up originally I told him that I trusted him, but not the situation.
For me it’s not a lack of trust. It’s that I’d like to feel that my feelings mattered, that what I want is more important than what she wants since I’m the girlfriend and she’s the ex.
He told me today that she feels that if I were there for a conversation that she would feel necessary to make the conversation entertaining for me the whole time. And since they have so little time that they can spend together, it would cut into the time that they could effectively reminisce. (i.e. I would be bored to tears by their reminiscing.)
He’s sleeping right now, but when he wakes up, I’ll show him this thread and allow him the chance to respond through my screen name or as a guest if he so chooses.
In other words, you aren’t invited because Ms. Ex doesn’t want to try to make you happy. Big red flag.
She’s going to continue to be part of his past. If you allow yourself to be excluded from being in on those in-jokes they share, you’ll agree to forever let that be the excuse for excluding you.
I’m all for maintaining friendly relationships (if possible) with exes. Last year we went on vacation and stayed at one of my exes’ homes. There wasn’t ever a moment that my ex and I were there alone together and I never would have even thought to require such a thing.
I don’t think that she should be banished from his life because I exist, but I think that I should be his #1 girl without question and that maybe we can all be friends. (As others have suggested.)
**She ** apparently thinks **you ** should be banished from his life, or rather, that she gets to have a visit with him and pretend you don’t exist. It seems to me that you are not invited mostly because she doesn’t want you there.
In my experience with some of my friends, some men will tell their wives all about the friend (or ex or coworker) that they are getting involved with emotionally, so that they can pretend to themselves that nothing is going on. They say to themselves," but it’s ok with NowGirl that I’m here with Ms.Ex," when all the while he manipulated NowGirl into agreeing to his date with MsEx, by making it a trust issue. I’ve seen it before and it stinks to high heaven.
When he stops reading because he’s all pissed off at these people who don’t know you or him IRL? Or about the relationship in general? I’ll handle both with one flippant acronym…
DTMFA. But you already knew that.
Look, I’ll bet he’s at least in his 40’s and maybe you are too. I can tell you that there are women who put up with crap b/c they think they won’t find a better partner after a certain age - I was one of those women for almost 7 years. And I put up with some stupid shit; hyper-jealous, verbally abusive, sexually intimidating and downright crazy men. I dated a man who kept pictures of an ex-gf as she was the prettiest woman he’d ever dated and he made it clear I did not compare; I didn’t complain and put up with him for 4 months. I thought I was doomed to guys who’d lie to me and do what they wanted and I’d be forced to either go along with it smiling and blame myself for being unhappy or risk being alone for good. Then, I met Tripler at a Dopefest and all those concerns faded away. The man for you is out there and when he meets you he will not be able to be without you and you’ll know without a doubt what the truth is about your place in his life without having to ask him. Or, hopefully, us.
:hugs Always Brings Pie like a good girlfriend would:
Oy. Dearest Pie: I hate to pain you, but could this man be any more weasely?
What is with him just going along with Ex’s program? (what IS it with guys not taking responsibility for THEIR choices this week?) He is just as culpable as she is in the hotel room to save money BS (go on, pull the other one), the “you weren’t part of the old days” schtick, thus ensuring that no NEW memories are made that can be shared by all 3, and then this whiney ass “well, she’s got her plans etc”
Where is the wet trout?
I won’t say kick him to the curb because nothing is that simple, but I say definitely get in there and advocate for yourself. You deserve better treatment than this. I think he’s an ass for bringing her up at all, pulling this shit takes him well into Jerk territory.
There has been elements of both “alone” and “group” time involved in all my visits with “Ms. Ex” so far, and I plan to continue providing such “balance” as the behavior of “Ms. Ex” warrants. She and I interact, for the record, like siblings more than exes in the present. She shares occasional frustrations with me and I respond as a sounding board and then her marriage returns to normal. I trust that she doesn’t have “her eye on” me but would also not hesitate to be vindictive (read: send things crashing down on her) should she make a pass. “Always Brings Pie” knows how I handled a few untrustworthy exes in the past, as to “don’t get mad, get even” by bringing all manner of drama on them after seeing to it that they got caught. That being said, I know what I’m doing. I’m not the kind to get “played” and I don’t take kindly to any attempt to play me. That being said, I trust my ex and I’m trying to make this a three-way-friendship and have done somewhat well in that regard in between moments of insecurity. I’m over 40 and know what I’m doing.
Or he could be telling Always Brings Pie to alleviate his guilt about his feelings about his Ex so that when they fuck like rabbits ‘‘accidentally’’ he can tell himself his intentions were innocent all along. Or he can continue his emotional affair guilt-free. Whatever his intentions, they seem to be more for his own good than out of any real respect for her, as evidenced by the fact that if he had any real respect for what she wanted he would honor her wishes.
Someone upthread (or backthread) hit the nail right on the head – it’s problematic that the ex herself doesn’t give a shit about his girlfriend’s happiness. When you have a friendship with a couple, you embrace the other half of the couple. That’s just the way it works. You don’t have to like that person internally, but you do respect them as important to the person you love. I think Boyfriend is sending the Ex unconscious (or conscious) messages that ABP isn’t important. He is elevating Ex’s needs above those of his own girlfriend.
Always Brings Pie, I like you a whole bunch. You are a kind-natured and positive person and a joy to have on these boards. You really do not deserve this kind of negativity in your life. You’ve been together over a year now, which means that it’s unlikely this pattern, or Ex’s prominence in your boyfriend’s life, is going to change. Even if he has no intention of sleeping with her, even if he’s always chaste of heart and mind, emotionally he is putting her happiness ahead of yours. And maybe someday it won’t be this girl, but some other woman, or some other thing he doesn’t care whether or not you’re uncomfortable with. I just have the gut feeling you’re going to be kicking yourself down the road if you don’t put a stop to this shit ASAP.
Hi. Glad you could provide some input and provide a more balanced perspective.
Now you make it sound as if you’re just tolerating your ex out of some sense of obligation, or maybe you just get a rise out of the fact that she depends on you when her marriage goes to shit. You also seem to love the idea that she MIGHT try to play you, and expect it. Why exactly should Always Brings Pie sanction a friendship with a woman you seem to have little respect for, who you are aware might attempt to sexually manipulate you? Here I was thinking you might be into the Ex, but it seems more likely from your post that you just love her wanting what she can’t have.
I can’t imagine how if you had any respect for your Ex as a friend you would enact revenge on her. Why would you enact revenge on anyone? You would seriously spend precious moments of your time on this earth trying to destroy someone else’s life?
This doesn’t make sense. You trust your Ex but you would totally fuck her shit up if she betrayed you?
How do you actually feel about Always Brings Pie? How serious is this relationship? How important is she to you? Are her feelings of little consequence in this little three-way friendship you’re attempting? You say ‘‘attempting’’ which makes it pretty clear the Ex is being contentious. There is no way ABP should have to tolerate someone actively hostile like that, and it’s baffling to me that you would expect her to.
ETA: This is getting confusing. Yeah dude, get a Guest Membership. It’s free anymore.
