He said, she said... An opinion poll.

In My Humble Opinion
61

Charming Boyfriend says:

to which I say: Why are you only trying? How about putting your foot down and saying to Ex, “Look, I have a girlfriend who means a whole lot more to me than you do, and if you aren’t willing to see me with her around at any time I want her to be there, then I don’t need to see you, either”?

Pie, you really do deserve a man who respects you. This is not a man who respects you. You’ve mentioned elsewhere a lot of little situations in which he’s been inconsiderate of you – i.e., repeatedly waking you up just as you’ve gotten to sleep for a nap that you desperately need when he knows you have trouble sleeping – and I truly get the impression he’s genuinely not willing to treat you with the respect you deserve.

In other words, DTMFA.

62

How is excluding Pie from your dates (for they ARE dates) “trying to make this a 3 way friendship”? How is sharing a hotel room with an Ex (god, I’d love to know what Hubby thought of that) just a “sibling” thing? I don’t share hotel rooms with my brother. GROW UP. MAN UP and be the BF Pie thinks you are.

Also, I think what we are doing here is frowned upon–I think that the bb rules are that Charming Billy has to pony up (or at least be a guest).

63

[QUOTE=Always Brings Pie]
Charming Boyfriend responds:

…She shares occasional frustrations with me and I respond as a sounding board and then her marriage returns to normal. …
[/QUOTE]

Sir, in my experience, when a grown and married woman is having difficulty with her marriage, and she cannot (or will not) divorce, she often seeks emotional fulfillment elsewhere. She wants the satisfaction and attention that she is not getting from her husband, and she is seeking this from you. I understand that Ms. Ex is in pain and has her difficulties, but I hope you can see that you are not obligated to fill the hole in her relationship if by so doing, Ms. Ex requires you to put a hole in your own.

If she needs emotional support, there is no reason why Ms. Ex cannot receive this kind of loving friendship from you as a couple, together. This would both give Ms. Ex what she needs — support — and what Always Brings Pie wants, which is inclusion into your emotional world. Shutting out Pie, even for a good cause, is damaging to your relationship with her, and “I know what I’m doing” is a poor answer. I’d be willing to bet that Pie has just a good a grasp on the emotional dynamics as you do, if not better, and she does not deserve a patronizing answer like “I know what I’m doing.” Between us guys, I know this is usually code for “I don’t know what I’m doing but I can figure it out myself, so leave me alone, because you have nothing to say that I want to hear.” It is a hurtful way to answer Pie’s emotional needs.

I mentioned a book earlier. I highly recommend it to you now. Read this book. It will open your eyes. It did for me: it was written by a woman who’s very good at talking to men, without making us feel like idiots. It will help tremendously. I’m serious.

64

[QUOTE=Always Brings Pie’s Charming Boyfriend]
I know what I’m doing.
[/QUOTE]
Really? You know you’re hurting your girlfriend? Really?

65

over in the MMP. we’ve heard more of this story than this thread reveals. My only comment to this obivously worsening situation is:
Pie - you deserve so much better treatment from a boyfriend. It’s time to move on.

66

[QUOTE=anyrose]
over in the MMP. we’ve heard more of this story than this thread reveals. My only comment to this obivously worsening situation is:
Pie - you deserve so much better treatment from a boyfriend. It’s time to move on.
[/QUOTE]

Do you have a link to that?

I also can’t help noting that in Charming Boyfriend’s entire response, he barely mentioned Pie except to imply she should be okay with whatever he wants to do. He didn’t even mention how she feels about this or how he feels about her.

That’s weak.

67

I like the whole ‘clueless’ bit about males. I can use it if I get busted by my GF.

OP, you are being a SAP. Do you really, really think that he really ‘sees nothing wrong’ with his behavior?

IN A HOTEL ROOM!!! TWO AND A HALF DAYS!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA.

I see room for amusement here.

68

[QUOTE=Always Brings Pie]
Charming Boyfriend responds:

There has been elements of both “alone” and “group” time involved in all my visits with “Ms. Ex” so far, and I plan to continue providing such “balance” as the behavior of “Ms. Ex” warrants. She and I interact, for the record, like siblings more than exes in the present. She shares occasional frustrations with me and I respond as a sounding board and then her marriage returns to normal. I trust that she doesn’t have “her eye on” me but would also not hesitate to be vindictive (read: send things crashing down on her) should she make a pass. “Always Brings Pie” knows how I handled a few untrustworthy exes in the past, as to “don’t get mad, get even” by bringing all manner of drama on them after seeing to it that they got caught. That being said, I know what I’m doing. I’m not the kind to get “played” and I don’t take kindly to any attempt to play me. That being said, I trust my ex and I’m trying to make this a three-way-friendship and have done somewhat well in that regard in between moments of insecurity. I’m over 40 and know what I’m doing.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that’s swell. So what do you plan to do about the fact that your actions are hurtful to your girlfriend? You failed to mention anything about this issue, which IMO is a much, much, much more serious problem for you than anything your ex of 20 years ago is dealing with in her marriage. Yeah, she’s a friend, you care about her, blah blah. How nice. But you’re not married to her, and you’re not in a relationship with her. The person you ARE in a relationship with is very upset about your behavior, and apparently your response to this is, “Well, tough. You shouldn’t be upset. I’m over 40 and therefore very mature and therefore should be trusted to make unilateral decisions about spending excessive time with my ex and doing really inappropriate things with her, e.g. spending the night together in a hotel room.”

I am also pretty well unimpressed by your bravado regarding bringing “all sorts of drama” on your previous untrustworthy exes. I mean, why even mention that? It feels like you’re saying, “Nothing is going to happen, of course. But if it DID happen - which of course it will not - then I would retaliate by creating lots of drama for the person involved. Not that anything will happen. But if it did - then drama would ensue!” If my boyfriend were giving me a line like that, I would not consider it evidence that he was very mature and knew what he was doing, I’ll just say that much.

You need to do some serious work on your own relationship before considering being a sounding board for someone else’s.

69

[QUOTE=Always Brings Pie]
Yeah, I told him I wasn’t interested in standing by and watching some star-crossed lovers scene.

He assures me that’s not the case.
[/QUOTE]

What would Charming’s reaction be if you were doing the same thing with an old flame of yours? Has he addressed that yet?

I’d be pissed as hell, and not because I’m female but because my husband - even if we weren’t married - shacking up for any number of evenings with a woman he used to have sex with regularly by himself would immediately set off my booty-call radar.

Unless you’re all game for and committed to a polyamorous relationship, the above-referenced scenario is rife with opportunity, if not for cheating, to build a huge amount of mistrust. The Ex refusing to include you makes the situation even more suspicious. And Charming’s assertions lead me to believe that he’s either a) gullible as hell, b) in denial or c) “knows what he’s doing” and what he’s doing is setting the stage for a relationship with Ms. Ex.

70

[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th]
Do you have a link to that?

[/QUOTE]

Nah, not really, unless you wanted to go back and sift through all the MMPs.

[QUOTE=MsWhatsit]
Yeah, that’s swell. So what do you plan to do about the fact that your actions are hurtful to your girlfriend? You failed to mention anything about this issue, which IMO is a much, much, much more serious problem for you than anything your ex of 20 years ago is dealing with in her marriage. Yeah, she’s a friend, you care about her, blah blah. How nice. But you’re not married to her, and you’re not in a relationship with her. The person you ARE in a relationship with is very upset about your behavior, and apparently your response to this is, “Well, tough. You shouldn’t be upset. I’m over 40 and therefore very mature and therefore should be trusted to make unilateral decisions about spending excessive time with my ex and doing really inappropriate things with her, e.g. spending the night together in a hotel room.”

I am also pretty well unimpressed by your bravado regarding bringing “all sorts of drama” on your previous untrustworthy exes. I mean, why even mention that? It feels like you’re saying, “Nothing is going to happen, of course. But if it DID happen - which of course it will not - then I would retaliate by creating lots of drama for the person involved. Not that anything will happen. But if it did - then drama would ensue!” If my boyfriend were giving me a line like that, I would not consider it evidence that he was very mature and knew what he was doing, I’ll just say that much.

You need to do some serious work on your own relationship before considering being a sounding board for someone else’s.
[/QUOTE]

Well put. Thank you.

[QUOTE=overlyverbose]
What would Charming’s reaction be if you were doing the same thing with an old flame of yours? Has he addressed that yet?
[/QUOTE]

Actually, he’s said in the past that he would be fine with it, for example if I took off for a week to visit with my ex in Michigan and went without him this time. That is something that I would never do when I was dating and committed to another man.

You all may very well be arguing towards a wall, though. I don’t honestly know if he’s reading along anymore as I have left his house and come back home and to work.

But I appreciate your unbiased opinions anyways.

71

I also want to point out that **Charming ** isn’t doing his old flame’s marriage any favors either. She was planning to spend the weekend at an amusement park with an ex-boyfriend, not with her husband and kids? What kind of message does that send her family? And using Charming as a sounding board for the problems in her marriage? Sorry, that’s what counselors are for. That’s what sisters are for. That’s what best girlfriends are for. An old flame should not be playing that role, no matter how platonic things seem now.

72

[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th]
Do you have a link to that?

I also can’t help noting that in Charming Boyfriend’s entire response, he barely mentioned Pie except to imply she should be okay with whatever he wants to do. He didn’t even mention how she feels about this or how he feels about her.

That’s weak.
[/QUOTE]

as Pie said, it’s scattered throughout a year or more of MMPs.

Pie, Over time, I have seen more frustration and sadness from you over this relationship than any positive emotion. Please take the time to examin what attracted you to nim to begin with. Did you see him as already the type of person you wanted or more as someone you could mold into the type of person you wanted. And be really honest with yourself - you don’t have to tell us the answer. If it’s the latter, your work is for naught, and it’s time to abandon the project. This is not your failure, it’s his.

73

“Charming” indeed.

74

This does come down to trust. And there is no way I would trust “charming” boy “friend” as a life partner. I would not trust him to nurture me, to cherish me, to make our relationship a top priority, to avoid hurting me, to listen to me, to take my concerns seriously. OK, perhaps he is trustworthy with respect to keeping his penis in his pants while hanging out with his ex girlfriend, while he is investing his time, emotions and energy into making her happy, listening to her, avoiding hurting her, cherishing her, nurturing her and making her a top priority. But that is just not a high enough trust level for me. YMMV.

75

I want to end this thread now.

In the end DianaG had it right from the beginning…

And so is rosie. The question is can I live with the hurt? Is it outweighed by the good times that we have together?

In My Humble Opinion… Yes, it is.

76

Pie, honey, this whole thing reeks and after seeing CB’s response I’m not liking him much. I know I don’t have a lotta room to talk, all things considered, but damn–at least I know that if I were the one posting about Himself and he read it and responded he’d have a lot to say about how much he loves me and wants what’s best for me (interspersed with the angry and obscene invective, of course! :stuck_out_tongue: ) The entire response was a whole lotta “me me me” and “ex ex ex” but not a whit of “us” or “Pie.” Huge, huge red flag. That whole “I know what I’m doing and I will fuck her shit up if she steps outta line” schtick was not only A) horseshit of the purest ray serene but also B) really, really ugly.

C’mon, girl, I think you deserve better and I think you can find it pretty easily. Babe, you can COOK! :smiley:

And just for the record, I’m the much married one in our relationship, with more than a few exes–Himself has stated categorically that he considers my previous relationships as having the kind of “got there first” rights that would not preclude me having a “for old time’s sake” fling with any of them. That being said, knowing for a fact that I could go spend a weekend fucking my brains out with any of them and Himself would not reproach me–I would NOT go spend a weekend alone with any of them, just out of respect. For CB to even entertain the notion, knowing how you feel about the situation is disrespectful and nasty.

CB, until/unless you come back here under a guest membership and show me you have a bit more on the ball than that response would indicate I think I’m safe to say you’re an insensitive asshole with delusions of adequacy. Go ahead, prove me wrong–but I’m betting a cybernickel right now that you don’t have the balls to do so and that instead you’re gonna take it out on Pie. Which, for the record, would be a dick move.

77

Closed at the request of the OP