HELP PLEASE - Moral Dilemma

I am so upset about this situation I haven’t a clue what to do. My best friend is getting married August 17 and moving to Florida. She and her fiance are part of our very close circle of friends. I will be her matron of honor, Mr. Jane a groomsman, Janette #1 a flower girl, and Janette #2 the “miniature bride” (a white trash tradition; don’t ask). It’s to be a realtively large affair, with each of them having six attendants. We are pulling this whole thing together in less than four weeks, as they had planned to elope originially.

A couple of weeks ago we had a lingerie shower for “Beaner”. She has requested no household shower, so another close friend and I are planning a novelty shower (adult toys, etc.) for her this Saturday. Her fiance Phil is to have his bachelor party tomorrow. It was planned while he was away at school, and his buddies (including Mr. Jane) discussed taking him to a strip club. Beaner, who is very close with Phil’s friends as well (actually, we are all good friends), indicated that she would be hurt and angry if he went to a club. For one thing, there are no classy or even CLEAN strip clubs here. The ones that open are constanly being shut down for violations of various kinds - there are still people in jail for “unnatural acts” onstage from one that was forced to close after a sting operation several years ago. For another, she doesn’t want him to do it and has asked him not to, which really is all that matters. He agreed not to, and said he didn’t want to in the first place. His friends agreed that they could have a nice time elsewhere, and Beaner thought the matter was settled. HOWEVER.

Mr. Jane confided to me today that he would not be attending the bachelor party. When I asked him why, he said that the other guys had decided to take Phil to the titty bar without telling him where they’re going beforehand. He said he didn’t want to catch any grief at home (and he would, too - not because I’m jealous of other women, either - we swing. I’m just not about to allow any of OUR money to be wasted in such a ridiculous fashion). So now I’ve spoken with Beaner’s & my other best buddy. We are planning to confront the ring leader of this little operation, and tell him that we will be forced to tell Beaner what’s going on if they go through with it. Part of me wants to wait and see if Phil will actually go through with it, and then tell her, or if he’ll call the whole thing off once he finds out where they’re taking him, or if he’ll just go and lie to Beaner about it. We haven’t said anything at all to her about it yet.

I don’t know what to do. I can’t in good conscience allow my whole family to participate in this wedding if Beaner’s being lied to by her future husband and her other friends. She told me just the other day that what she admired most about Phil were his morals and high standards. Ugh. On the other hand, I don’t want all of our other friends mad at me for telling her. I certainly don’t want to be responsible for this wedding being cancelled.

What would you do? I need help and advice as quickly as possible.

Forgot to mention that Mr. Jane says he’s sorry he told me in the first place. He thinks it’s fine if she never finds out. This is a somewhat strange position for him to take, I think, as he has in the past told Beaner things that Phil would not have wanted her to know (admittedly, he is closer now to Phil than he was in the past). I like Phil a whole lot too, and he hasn’t done anything wrong YET (if in fact he doesn’t know the plan for Saturday) but my loyalty lies with my best friend. In any other case I can think of, his loyalty would lie with her as well. For some reason, this “tradition” seems to take precedence over friendship, honesty and integrity. I reminded him that slavery was once traditional too.

Hon, why don’t you just tell PHIL what they are planning to do? He is much more likely to nix the whole thing if he knows about it in advance than if they just take him there and he has to make a scene.

What Scotticher said.

Seriously, don’t wait until the actual event in order to “test” him: that’s immature behavoir, and as an adult, Phil deserves more respect than that. His buddies are being assholes, plain and simple: they are assuming that deep down inside Phil really wants what they want him to want. I can see a situation where they pick hime up for the bachlor party and take him to the strip club and when he protests they start to get angry and calling him names and then he’s faced with a hell of a dilmna: not oging along with what was intended to be a nice gesture may well lead to a huge fight that would disrupt the entire wedding, but going along will mean doing something he dosen’t want to do and which will make the woman he loves upset. There is absolutly nothing to be gained from “testing” Phil by putting him in this shitty situaiton: let him know now so that he can take steps to avoid the problem before it escalates and he is forced to choose between his wife and his friends…

I agree, you should tell Phil first and hope he does the right thing and decides not to do the party, and that he tells Beaner about the bad guy. If he DOESN’T do the right thing then I don’t know what to suggest.

Actually, as long s he can nip it in the bud quitely, I don’t think he needs to tell Beaner in order tohave done “the right thing”. On of his friends is makinga very stupid mistake–as long as he can fix it, there is no reason to tell Beaner 'Bythe way, one of my friends is more concerned with doing what he mistakingly thinks will make me happy than with respecting your and my wishes." It will just stir up bad blood between Beaner and the guy, and I don’t see why he needs to do that.

Thanks for the help, guys. I had worked myself up into a migraine earlier (over this and something else) and then fell asleep, so I was late to reply. I think what we’ve decided to do is to talk to Tim (the “bad guy”, who normally is such a sweetheart) and tell him that not only do those of use who know disapprove, Phil will be mad, Beaner may never speak to him again, etc. Phil and Tim have been close since high school (in fact, until the wedding, they’re ROOMMATES). I am all for neither Phil nor Beaner finding out unless he forces us to tell them, as I will feel guilty for any hard feelings that might occur right now before they move away. Mr. Jane is buddies with Tim too, and he’s at our house a lot. Although I want to protect my friend, I don’t want to be thought of as Mr. Jane’s old stick-in-the-mud wife. I think he’s (misguidedly) trying to show Phil a good time, and not really trying to be an asshole. He’s never had a serious relationship, and rarely had much sex, so I believe the concept of a bachleor party with strippers sounded great to his socially-challenged male mind.

Thanks again for the input. Please keep your fingers crossed for me!

jane_says I have some questions.

Let me get this straight. You are planning to give the bride a shower of sex toys and yet the bride complains about the groom going to a strip club? Did you tell Phil that you gave the soon to be blushing bride a bunch of dildos? I bet that Phil may not like the idea that you gave his soon to be wife toys. He may think that he could take care of her needs.

If Phil doesn’t want to go to a strip club that is his business. “Beaner”, on the other hand, sounds like a controling witch. The concept of a bachleor party with strippers is not a function of a “socially-challenged” male mind. I have been to bachleor parties for PHDs and MBAs. The party was a last look for the groom. A statement that this is the last woman you will see naked except for your wife.

Oh, except you. Apparently swinging is better than stripping.


Throwing a “novelty party” with some dildos and vibrators is extraordinarily different from going to a strip club which is “constantly being shut down for violations,” first of all. It doesn’t sound like a standard strip club, and the groom may be pressured into performing other acts, if the club is as bad as it sounds (whether he gives into these is another matter.)

Sex toys != not being able to take care of someone’s needs, anyway. That’s kind of a weird connection to make, IMO.



When did she EVER say that she personally thought swinging was better than stripping? She’s looking out for her friend, and frankly, I can’t understand why you felt compelled to come in and attack her.

Sheesh, sleestak

Giving a shower where the bride will receive “sex toys” which she will presumably use with her husband-to-be is a whole different thing than going to a sleazy strip joint. For your information, bridal shower=presents for the bride to use with/for her husband, or in her new home.

The point is, she expressed dismay and he agreed with her and put the kibosh on the strip club. His friends have NO right to force him into a situation he already said he didn’t want to be involved in.

And just because Jane and her husband “swing”, doesn’t mean her friends do. Even if they do, and it doesn’t sound to me as though that is the case, what does that have to do with ANYTHING here? HE SAID HE DIDN"T WANT TO DO IT ANYWAY! Did you miss that?

She said she didn’t like the idea. He said he didn’t either. Now his “friends” are going to take him there anyway? Wouldn’t you find that insulting?

I’d be ticked off if I said I didn’t want to do something I thought was sleazy and my friends took me there anyway…because THEY decided that was really what I wanted to do. In fact, I would grab a taxi and head for home.

Wouldn’t you?

Telling anyone but the groom what you have learned is being manipulative, and participating in a possibly distructive bit of dishonesty.

If he knows where he is going, he can decide for himself. If you tell her, and not him, you are testing him. He isn’t a text subject, he is a human being. If you tell the organizer, he will just include you in the list of people not to tell stuff to. (with reason, in fact.)

Tell Him, quietly, alone, and then try this rather unlikely course of action. Mind your own business.


Yes, I agree. Forget talking to the roommate, and as I originally said, tell Phil. It is, after all, HIS business more than anyone elses.

MandaJO, you’re right, there’s no need to involve Beaner in this.

For the love of all that’s holy, stay out of it. You won’t regret it.


Have you asked Mr. Jane to talk to Phil? That would seem to be the most logical choice if you are insistent on getting involved in this situation. I don’t think that you should talk to Phil since you aren’t even supposed to know what is happening.

I’m sorry…I think I’m missing something.

<Beaner’s being lied to by her future husband…>

I thought that Tim was going to ‘surprise’ the groom. In that case, the groom wouldn’t be lying.

What would I do? I would either 1. stay out of it…2.or remind Tim that Mr. Beaner didn’t want to go to a strip bar, and that his wife to be has mentioned it would hurt her. In a group of close friends like this she certainly WILL find out eventually. I mean, you aren’t supposed to know, right? How hard is it to imagine she will know soon too.

If you want to be REALLY evil you should plan her shower at the same titty bar and surprise everyone…(nerk nerk) Maybe a food fight would ensue!

Holy shit. I can’t believe MY personal life has been dragged into this. It has nothing to do with my friends’ lives whatsover. I guess when I ask for assistance on a public board, though, I should know better than to assume everyone might stick to the facts of the situation, rather than to sling barbs at me personally.

Sleestak - FWIW, the novelty shower was at least half the groom’s idea. They agreed, since he has been living alone in college dorms and apartments since after high school, that a shower for household items wasn’t necesaary. He suggested that something a little more “romantic” in nature, such as lingerie, toys, etc., might be a fun and PRACTICAL idea. In the future, you might find it useful when you making assumptions about what others’ friends may or may not like their wives to have, to keep those assumptions to yourself. Not everyone has your sexual hang-ups. You’re dead-ass wrong. Have you never bought silk sheets, dimmed the lights, bought flowers, or done anything else to facilitate a romantic atmosphere? If you did, was it because you felt you and your partner weren’t capable of having good sex without it? Okay then. And as far as ME swinging, that has about as much to do with this as say, well, uh…NOTHING. I mentioned that to illustrate that I don’t care if my husband sees naked chicks. Beaner apparently DOES mind, at least in this case. They don’t swing. And it’s not your f@cking business if they do. You had no reason to bring MY personal life into a discussion about what I should do about some of our friends choosing to lie and deceive my best friend over an event that she might choose to call the wedding off over. Okay? Thank you for your opinion, nevertheless. I think. And in answer your rather stupid question, yes, I think swinging is “better” than stripping, in this case at least. With swinging, both partners know what’s going on. In this case, the trip to strip club was being hidden from Beaner. And Phil. The two situations are not comparable. Lay off the sauce and think before you say something like that again. Please. :smack:

Hajaro, I wish like hell that I could stay out of this completely. This is my BEST FRIEND. I am closer to her than my sister. She is the ONLY person I trust my children with. Up to and including their grandparents on their father’s side. As previously mentioned, I am the maid of honor in her wedding. I have practically raised her. She sleeps over at my house 3-4 nights a week. She trusts me explicitly with every aspect of her life. Their is NO WAY in hell I am staying out of this and allowing her to begin her marriage based on a lie. Nope. Can’t do it. She wouldn’t do it to me, and I’m not having this on my conscience. Trust ME on this. I would regret it.

Case solved anyway: Mr. Jane spoke with Tim this morning and told him that several of Beaner’s friends had found out their plan. He told him Beaner didn’t know yet, but that she would by morning if he went through with the plan. So Mr. Jane proposed a solution, which Tim and the other guys have agreed to: poker night, pizza, lots of beer and one last cigarette before Phil takes on his first real, responsible job as a civil engineer, all to be done at Tim’s house. Cheaper, more fun, and no one has to lie about anything. They all agreed they could spend more quality time talking, reminiscing, etc. before they move away this at the end of the month way anyway. Beaner never has to know anything, my conscience is clear, and neither Phil nor Beaner had to know anything. All’s well that ends well, I guess.

BTW, Scotticher, thanks for being the voice of reason here. And thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. :slight_smile:

Trisk, the hamsters seem to have eaten what I said to you. Here goes again. The reason I DON’T want to tell Phil is that I don’t want to cause problems with Phil and Tim, who are best buddies. If I thought Tim was behaving with malice, rather than a misguided attempt to give his friend what he thinks he just won’t ADMIT he wants, bet your ass I’d mention it to Phil. I had no plans of using Phil as a test subject. I was hoping that if the occasion arose, and it was impossible to get it stopped beforehand somehow, that Phil would have the decency to say something along the lines of “Hey, babe, before you hear it elsewhere that my Jeep was seen down at the Tit & Shit, I had no idea they were taking me there. I didn’t go inside, Tim and I discussed the fact that I’d made it clear I didn’t want to go, blah blah blah.” I wasn’t planning to spy and tell, and I’m sorry if I made it sound that way. I was upset and in a hurry for help yesterday. Re-reading my first post, I wish I’d made that clearer then. My main objective was to keep this wedding running smoothly and to keep anyone from losing friends or having to replace wedding attendants.

And BTW, this is MY business. I have been involved in every aspect of their relationship, from their first meeting, late-night arguments, picking out the wedding gown, hosting showers, and a shoulder for BOTH of them for cry on. They have chosen to ask my opinion on everything from rings to what kind of chicken to serve at the reception. Had I not at least tried to put a stop to this, BOTH of them would have considered me a traitor. We’re an extremely close group, proabably closer than most groups of friends and many families. This is as close to “minding my business” I could have come and still retained the friendship of both of them.

Hey Jane, I’m glad it all worked out. :slight_smile:

You are entirely welcome, hon.

I’m also glad it worked out.

I’m dying of curiosity, though…WHY do you call her “Beaner?”

Call me curious…or nosy, as the case may be…I just have some friends who have unusual nick names and I am always curious when I see someone else with a somewhat inexplicable one.