I actually agree with you, oddly enough. I am just placing the blame where it belongs: That geriatric motherfucker’s feet.
Sorry but if the Bro fits…
And of course by concentrating on that little three-letter word you miss the whole point: Someone who claims to be all about Bernie but also all about wanting to stop Trump has a level of cognitive dissonance that would spin Satan himself back into heaven because there is a long, long list of things Bernie did which actively assisted Trump.
And I am not even including the Russians touting Bernie because I don’t blame him for that. I do blame him for the way he reacted to the news, however - another thing the right wing will pick up on. Oh yeah, they already are. (Warning: Wing Nut Daily link nobody should click)
The person I responded to is allowing his lapdog-like devotion to Bernie to ignore the fact that Bernie is helping Trump and has helped Trump, far more than he hurt him. As I said, I one supported Bernie too. I even defended him from those who slammed him. But unlike some bros (tee, hee) I was able to quit the fan club and realize that Bernie isn’t helping.
You can either be a Bernie cheerleader or you can do everything you can to take Trump out. At this point the evidence says you cannot be both unless you’re not paying attention.
He should appreciate the fucking wake up call and pay attention. Bernie is helping Trump. He should not be encouraged to continue to do so. Those who do are also helping Trump. If you, he or anyone else doesn’t like that, too bad but don’t take it up with me, take it up with Bernie.
People need to wake up and drop their illusions about political candidates. They’re human beings not secular saints. And if they didn’t have a strong sense of personal ambition, they wouldn’t be running for office. Nobody just happens to wake up one morning and find themselves elected President.
Bernie Sanders is no different. He wants to be elected. And now that he knows he has a shot at getting elected, he’s going to work for it. And that means knocking other candidates down if they’re in his way.
I supported Hillary Clinton in both 2008 and 2016. But when she lost the nomination in 2008, I switched my support to Obama. If Sanders had received the nomination in 2016, I would have switched my support to him. If Sanders gets nominated in 2020 and he’s running against Trump, I will support Sanders.
You have to support the best candidate who’s available even if it’s not the candidate who was your first choice.
The difference is that when Hillary lost to Obama she, after a very tough contentious campaign and one that was a hell of a lot closer than Bernie ever was to Hillary (did you know that they were essentially tied with raw votes?), she got to work and fully endorsed Obama. In fact, she was actually criticized at the time for taking too long. Here’s an NBC News article from June 2, 2008 that goes into this. A whole three days later, she did.
Meanwhile in 2016, as early as early March, outlets such were showing, using past results, math and demographics, that he was essentially eliminated from the race. (Cite) (Cite) (Cite)
His response? Appeal to superdelegates!
Never mind that early in the race Bernie and his backers screamed about superdelegates thwarting the will of the people. When the will of the people were for Hillary Clinton, suddenly that will was far less important.
No, Bernie despite math and despite going against his own ethics, didn’t concede. He dragged things out. While Donald Trump cleared away the Republican nomination, there was Hillary still dealing with Weekend At Bernie’s, a dead man who didn’t know he was dead but who still caused Clinton to spend money and time and energy she could have used to start against Trump. Only after he got unprecedented representation in the Democratic platform, in mid July (!) did he finally give his endorsement.
There is literally zero comparison to how Bernie handled losing to Hillary compared to how Hillary lost to Obama. Bernie’s endgame sucked, it helped Trump, and he still continues to help Trump today. Fuck him.
The reason he’s so much more dangerous as an independent is because no one can knock him out of the race. In 2016, Hillary – though not elected – won the primary. Bernie did eventually step aside, though I agree he took too long to do it. But I’ll give him some credit for moving behind her and strongly urging his supporters to do the same.
Honestly, that’s when I started to get a real sense that something was seriously wrong in the 2016 election. In every other election I’ve lived through (and at my age that’s been a fair few), there was a good contest, then one person prevailed in the primary and amid much grumbling, everyone moved to support the victorious candidate. That didn’t happen in 2016. The Bernie folks just hated Hillary with a passion that was entirely outsized for any real or perceived flaw or action on her part. They simply wouldn’t budge, and it was one of the factors in her loss.
We now know that Russian intervention had a lot to do with that, based on Mueller’s indictments filed against Russians last Friday.
I wonder how many Bernie supporters have taken an honest look at the extent to which they may have been influenced by that intervention. Based on some comments made in this thread, I’d wager precious few. And so the Russians continue to influence the elections going forward.
Bingo.
I’ll admit I made a mistake. It’s a shame that others cannot even in the face of all of the evidence.
To be cynical, Sanders must have known that he would benefit more from a Trump victory in 2016 than a Clinton victory. A Trump victory makes Sanders the de facto front runner who will be campaigning against an idiot. A Clinton victory would have made her the incumbent and Sanders would have had to wait until 2024.
Even without being cynical, the guy has been a politician for decades and has been successful at it despite not aligning with a political party. You don’t do that unless you have some political savvy. So you have to wonder how a skilled politician who claims to be against Donald Trump has done so many things that actually helped Trump.
And the dumbest of all? If he really cared about his ideals and positions, he desperately would have wanted Clinton in the White House. They might have sparred a la when Bill Clinton was in the White House and the more liberal Barney Frank was in congress holding his feet to the fire. But at the end of the day we’re not discussing raising the minimum wage, we’re getting the biggest tax breaks for the wealthy. We’re not discussing helping those with crippling student loans, Democrats have to fight Trump from ending student loan forgiveness programs. Instead of beinh closer to universal healthcare, millions of Americans are going to be dropped from the rolls when Obamacare is choked to death.
None of his “issues” are getting any better. They are actually getting worse. It’s one thing for his supporters to not see that coming; they’re dumb. But a guy in politics as long as he has been? He really didn’t foresee that all of the things he fought so hard for are gone and likely will be in his lifetime because Trump won? How can that be explained?
I don’t think Bernie ran to win, I think he ran to make a point. And that was to demonstrate the numerical strength of the progressive wing of the party. And there is no real way to do that but to amass votes, to demonstrate popular support. A negotiation, properly conducted, has no losers. This is what we have, this is what we bring, listen to us, and we will listen to you.
I don’t like Hillary, never have, but I have to admit to myself I don’t perzackly know why. Just don’t. But I would have crawled on my hands and knees for a hundred yards of broken glass if it would have meant her for President rather than Trump. I have little doubt the Bernie would have done much the same.
Bernie made his point, and good for him, we needed that. I know lots of Bernie supporters, even several otherwise sane people who said, early on, Bernie or Bust. Until the dark clouds of a turd storm rose over the horizon, and then they sobered up, nine out of ten. I think it was that tenth that the Russians were aiming at, but we have no real way of calculating the effectiveness.
Our coalition is a herd of cats, to be sure. But at least we don’t have to hitch our wagon to be pulled by a Bible thumper, a gun nut and a greed freak.
Do you really think the title of this OP is helping?
Maybe it is. Maybe the Sanders campaign needed a cutesy dismissive term for the Clintonistas, so they could hate them openly while begging for their votes. That might have been smart, somehow.
I don’t know what that name would be, and it sounds kind of counterproductive to me, but someone should tell Mother Clinton that if she’s going to wake up her Little Kittens and send them screaming, that at this point the entire galaxy has heard them and we’re developing an immunity.
As I’ve said numerous times, I like Sanders the Senator, but I was at times irked by his movement. Whether or not Sanders and his campaign aides are the source of my frustration isn’t always clear to me even now. But reflecting upon the 2016 race and the Bernie phenomenon, I think one thing that struck me - and irritated me - about the rise of Bernie was that he was, in some respects, the product of toxic cynicism and the categorical rejection of compromise and a rejection of incremental change. Many people (though not all) who voted for Bernie were, in many ways, similar to Trump voters in that they wanted to shock the system and send a message – and in doing so, they indisputably contributed to making the ultimate outcome a lot worse for themselves and for others.
Sometimes it’s better to accept that your choices aren’t perfect, but that you nevertheless still have a choice and the ability to influence your government – a freedom (or privilege perhaps) that does not exist everywhere on the planet – and the wise voter makes the better choice with those few options that are realistic, and not simply wasting that opportunity to send a message that few people will hear anyway.
:rolleyes: Easy there, tough guy. I read it, waiting for the bombshell that put you in this tizzy, but it never came.
I think he’s referring to one of his staffers claiming to have gone to the Clinton campaign with information about Russian interference. Now, maybe the guy was lying about going to the Clinton campaign, or maybe the Clinton folks are lying when they say it didn’t happen. Either way, that’s what Sanders is talking about.
No. I missed no point. I’m making a completely different one. Wielding a stupid, childish epithet as a cudgel is not helpful, and makes you appear as blindly immature as if you had simply shouted the word “cuck” over and over again. You’re better than that. You are very capable of making your point, and passionately, without that nonsense.
maybe he used to be and no longer is?
any way you put it, the 2016 election and especially the results has been very bad for the country and other people are losing it. why not this left ear guy?
Capable of arguing his points without coming across as a 4chan lulzbot? He clearly is, in this very thread.
I don’t blame him for losing his shit. I blame him for losing his shit in a way that makes him look like a 4chan lulzbot, with slightly different playground insults.
one thing we know for sure is that the Russian Bot Makers would prefer Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters* not* get along.
+1000
Yeah this squabbling is exactly what the Russian trolls want. We need to unite against the real enemy and get over this stuff already. The more we fight each other the better for Trump and the GOP.
I’m going to need some help understanding where this level of vitriol comes from.
Besides the notion that he somehow cost Hillary the election, what exactly is it you dislike about Sanders?
Without knowing what exactly he was responding to, it’s hard to judge whether his response was uncalled for. This is another reason why I feel the article is deeply unfair.
I agree, his response doesn’t seem to reflect the best attitude or tactic, but considering (as I do) that the article is designed to show Sanders in an unfavorable light, I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
After promising to take up Sander’s cause when desperately seeking his approval in the runup to the election, my understanding is that the Dems have since turned their back on him and progressives, so I can understand why he’d be pissed at more people trying to sabotage his cause by implicating him in the Russian election scandal.
I will be royally pissed if this turns out to be an effort by the Dems to take him out of running from the 2020 election (may God grant him long life and good health) in favour of another run from Hillary.
Can we all just agree to vote against Trump? Please? We need to focus on our real enemies. This fighting is helping nobody but Trump and the GOP. We need to be smarter than this, or we are doomed.