H4e, do you recognize that you are not succeeding in your attempts to bring people closer to God and are in fact driving them away? I know this has been pointed out to you (by myself several times, and I was not the first), but have you recognized this fact?
H4E continues to make the same errors in preaching that so many of the “thumper” type of proselytizers who appear here do: try to explain, without any grounding in it themselves, the finer points of Theology, Christology, Scriptural Analysis, and Comparative Religion. Sadly, they do this to those on this board who are: ordained, scholars in the aforementioned subjects, or just well-read and intelligent people.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: The members of the Church of Nine Commandments who continue to plague Great Debates apparently worship a tome which they neither do nor can read.
His4Ever-Let me know when you’re done with the cross, I’m running out of wood for the fire
The above message was to make a couple of points. First, see how much worse that was then “His4Ever- I disagree with you because IMHO, your views seem to be based on parts of the bible often taken out context or without regard to passages which contradict or elaborate on the passage you’ve decide to quote.” Whether you mean to or not, your posts usually come across a lot closer in tone to my first line then to my alternative. The fire and brimstone thing just doesn’t work because YOUR views are irrelevant to everybody but you. Don’t you understand that you can’t expect others to respect you and your beliefs when you don’t offer the same. I’m not saying you have to change any of your personal beliefs, but don’t expect others to have an open mind when yours is apparently shut, locked, rusted, and welded closed. Maybe some day we can have a nice pleasant discourse about our respective viewpoints, but until we can agree to accept each others differences, I don’t see it happening.
Oh, the other point I wanted to make with the first statement is that you’re still coming across as sincere as Dana Carvey’s Church Lady character.
I apologize if this comes out sounding too cruel, but truth trumps all, including kindness, and I don’t want you to feel you’re the only one with direct access to THE TRUTH.
We don’t know what God knows. We only know what we know, and as far as we can tell, you’re an idiot and an asshole. You want to be perceived otherwise? Act differently.
**
This is the biggest load of shit I’ve seen since Godzilla ate that Mexican restaurant. If you really cared about gobear, you wouldn’t accuse him, or other gays, of being an abomination. Would you really believe that someone cared about you if all they did was verbally abuse you? Right. Neither would we, cause we’re not as dumb as you seem to think we are.
I’m gonna put this in bold so you see it. You are performing the work of Satan. God loves all creation, but you deny that. This is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the one unforgiveable sin listed in the Bible.
His4Ever:
She obviously reads posts the same way she reads The Bible…in the literal sense without any regard to metaphors and other literary devices.
H4E again:
I do not believe H4E’s posts her ‘gays are abominations’-type messages with hateful intent. She is simply expressing thoughts and what she believes to be facts based on what’s settled in the cesspool of ignorance swimming through her brain cavity. I do not like her opinions, especially her views regarding homosexuality, and I certain find the comment - ‘Your minds seem to have been warped by the evil one.’ - not surprising based on her reputation. Anyway, I am not going to label her as hateful or unloving…just extremely narrowminded and simple. Within her upbringing and fundamentalist religious community, her thoughts on gays, society, Jesus, et cetera are accepted so she can’t seem to question her perceptions of these matters.
To the rest of us, many of H4E’s comments reveal bigotry and hate. To her, these comments are socially accepted views. She has shown no evidence of individual thought whatsoever; she just gives us the same rubbish that was fed to her by other Bible thumping shmucks.
She has the right to view any threads she likes and she has the right to post whatever foulness is oozing from her mind, but I am tired of seeing it. All the backlash against her posts has become a bit redundant as well, but, of course, the criticism against H4E is proportional to her splashes of ignorant ramblings.
I suppose it doesn’t hurt to keep trying to phase her, but I seriously doubt that H4E will budge a single picometer toward being reasonable. And I am certain that she will not win over any converts among us more cultured people.
In short, what I’m trying to say (eventhough I’m really sleepy) is that H4E’s messages explicitly present hatred, visciousness, bigotry, etc…she just does not realize it. I wish she would open her mind and shut her mouth for a while.
AC
His4ever
No one is asking for that. See whether you can tell the difference between these two responses:
(1) The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. That book speaks for me, and if all you’re going to do is misunderstand me, then why should I bother responding at all? It’s not that I don’t love you. I just hate what you’re doing.
(2) The way I interpret the Bible, homosexuality is a sin. However, the Bible also calls on me to love without keeping a record of wrongs. Although I am heterosexual, I’m in no position to judge anyone else. I’m just as much of a sinner as you are (or worse).
Try number (2) sometime.
Nor am I a fundamentalist. Can you see how this kind of a pile-on would bother me nonetheless?
And Kirkland1244, who was banned for his behavior, is back without an apology. This passes without comment. But an apology from those who offend against political correctness is rejected out of hand. God forbid anything should interfere with a chance to vent at a nice, safe, socially approved Bad Guy.
Hardly everyone who behaves so, minty green. For instance, as far as I am concerned, those who act that way in this thread are on their own.
Regards,
Shodan
If I might stick my oar in here…? There have been times when I’ve got hot under the collar about what I perceived as irreverence and blasphemy: here’s how I dealt with it.
I worked through my own feelings about whatever had upset me, and tried (as far as I could) to see it from God’s point of view. Would whatever-it-was matter to God? If so, why would it? If not, why should it matter to me? If I couldn’t come up with sensible answers to those questions, I resolved not to be offended by whatever-it-was. And, if I was still offended… at least I had solid reasons for that, which I could use as a starting point to open a dialogue with whoever had upset me.
In a way, I’ve come to regard blasphemy as a positive thing - an opportunity for me to question and re-examine my own faith; to concentrate on the things that matter, to reach a better understanding of the work God wants me to do in my life. And I’ll add one more thing (which I first read in a fantasy novel by a guy called E.R. Eddison - the many ways God can talk to us can be quite unexpected, sometimes); blasphemy doesn’t hurt God, it doesn’t hurt us - the only person it can hurt is the person doing the blaspheming.
Just my opinion…
What the hell does Kirkland have to do with H4e’s bad behavior? I see you haven’t grown weary of bashing your “political correctness” strawman, but is it really necessary to resort to diversion at the same time?
Not one, but two humorless one-trick-ponies on display in this thread.
The nice thing is that the relevance and insight provided by most of the posters in this thread did much to show why its worthwile to put up with the predictably tiresome posts of certain posters.
I still think much of this has been taught to His4Ever by her church.
I think she needs to find a more liberal church and see that you can be a christian and (whats the word i’m looking for) …accepting at the same time.
vanilla: “Christilke,” like the Lord commanded us all to be. 
**
That’s your assumption. Just because I didn’t apologize in public doesn’t mean I didn’t apologize for stepping over the line in the GD.
Everyone should note that the bigot-coddling Shodan didn’t dispute being anti-gay. That alone should tell you enough about his character to reject his comments out of hand.
Kirk
Oh yeah, I forgot to say welcome back, Kirk. I really hope you learned the necessary restraint for Great Debates. You’ll be better for it if you have.
Bullshit and you know it, Shodan. He wouldn’t be back if he hadn’t apologized, probably profusely, to the Administration here for stepping over the line in Great Debates. He did not, however, owe an apology for his Pit reactions.
Furthermore, her apology is dismissed because it is obviously insincere.
Shodan, that crack at Kirkland was out of line. For crying out loud-he had to have appologized to be allowed back. And for that matter, that’s between him and the admins and mods. It’s none of your damn business.
His4Ever is, in my view, acting out of ignorance, rather than malice. But that doesn’t make it any less aggravating.
Perhaps Shodan saw no need to dignify it with a response?
I think poorly of His4ever, owing, no doubt, to the blanket and irrational condemnation of groups, and her immunity to thoughtful debate. Unfortunately, she has no monopoly on that, judging from some of the other posters here, who feel it’s appropriate to hurl vicious insults, like Klansman, in lieu of debating or ignoring.
I think Shodan’s comparison between posters’ pitting has merit; why is it we pit cluelessness with thrice the vehemence that we pit intentional malice?
Thanks, Guin and Homebrew.
“Out of line”?
So when a particularly abusive poster returns, it must be assumed that his apology was perfectly sincere, and he must be given every possible benefit of the doubt. Even though no one has seen the apology.
And yet we can all see into His4ever’s mind, and know for certain that her apology is “obviously insincere”.
And Kirkland1244 - I am sure you will excuse me for not rising to your bait. My interest in remaining in your good offices is less than burning.
You are free to draw what conclusions you please from not being corrected. It might be a good idea for you to consider if, at any point in the past, you may have reacted a little more strongly than the situation warranted.
Guinastasia’s last post speaks for me. I have the following comments:
[ul][li]Welcome back, Kirk. I cannot tell you how glad I am to see you back here again.[/li][li]I think you (Kirk) misjudge Shodan. I don’t agree with him on a lot of issues, including the one at hand, but I think he is sincere and thoughtful in what he has to say, and in no way hates or despises you and the other gay people here. Next time he posts something you disagree with, walk away and take time to calm down, then come back and re-read it. If (as is likely) you still need to disagree with what he said, you can do it without anger.[/li][li]For reasons others have given, I think Shodan owes Kirk an apology for his comments regarding him here. That, however, is MHO, and is not intended to be anything more than moral suasion on him to come up with one. (It would not hurt if Kirk retracted his accusation, too – presuming what Shodan has to say in any way demonstrates that Kirk was in error in calling Shodan anti-gay and full of hatred, or words to that effect.)[/li][li]With regard to the OP, and whether or not there was a valid apology, I can completely see His4Ever’s point. Jesus is important to me, a vital part of my life. My understanding of Him, though, is that He’d chuckle at the parodies of what growing up as a human being destined to be the Messiah was like. His4Ever, operating on a worldview in which Jesus is completely without human parts or passions (contrary to orthodox docrtine, I might add), sees it as hateful mockery of Him. I cannot doubt that she sees it as offensive.[/li][li]However, the point at issue is not what she thought about the wisecracks but about the original question raised by agentfroot – and I stand unreservedly by cjhoworth. It’s a valid question, one that deserves answering by anyone who has an opinion regarding Jesus and what His role in history and metaphysics was, including those who do not attribute any special role to him other than a godstruck young Jew as well as all of us for whom He is Savior and Lord. For insulting agentfroot, His4Ever is very much out of line – and if it was not her intent to do so, she needs to stop defending her stance vis-à-vis the GD Standup Antireligious Comedy Troupe long enough to realize that she has insulted a teenager asking a valid question about Jesus – and, by extension, that teenager’s church-school teacher who started this thread. That is what the OP of this thread is about, and what His4Ever is seemingly too intent on “martyrdom for her faith” to realize.[/li][li]Finally, since His4Ever seems to be ignoring my post to her from earlier in this thread, I’d like to ask the Teeming Pitsters for a critique of it. Did I seem in any way to be insulting or mocking her, or rather, as was my intent, trying to guide her into a different view of what had happened and what people were saying and doing – and IMHO one that is more attuned with Christ’s commands to her, me, and cjhoworth as to how to behave as His followers.[/li][/ul]
Shodan, from H4e’s first post in this thread: “I will apologize because you desire it.”
Not “I apologize for being rude” or anything like that. “I’m sorry because you want me to be.” Almost the most unapologetic apology there is to be made here, along the lines of JDT’s infamous “I, er, I guess I’m … hehe, I was only joking! Hey guys, look over there!” apology for accusing a member of the board of being a pedophile.
Kirkland, in my estimation, most likely (read: it would shock me to the core) did not say “I’m sorry because you want me to be.” Had he said such his status would not have changed back from banned to member. It is furthermore my estimation that at least one person talked to him off the boards about his behavior/posts/etc and suggested ways to get through the anger he felt from the words of other posters.
So to summarize: Kirkland is back here because, if nothing else, he was sincere in his apology. H4e wsa neither banned nor sincere in her “contrition”. And she seems to have learned almost nothing in her (albeit brief, but intense) entire time here.