I agree that H4E’s post should (like so many statements by so many people) have probably stopped short just before the ‘But’…
But…
C’mon Lib; we’re making progress here, aren’t we?
Are we? If I pull a man from his kitchen to his living room when his house is on fire, but run out his front door by myself, how much progress did I make?
“If you stick a knife nine inches into my back and pull it out three inches, that is not progress.” — El Hajj Malik El Shabazz
I feel called by the Lord to speak to His4ever. Will you kindly forgive me, and allow me to press on?
In fact, as I think of it, Mange, did you get a chance to read what I said to her? Did you find in there any condemnation? Any heavy burden for her to bear? Anything other than the loving advice from one Christian to another?
If you found me berating her, then stand where you are. But if you found me encouraging her and asking nothing more from her than loving kindness and compassion, then you need either to stand with me, or else move out of the way.
God go with you, Mange.
Bolding mine. As for “Knowing that it is sinful.” Huh uh. You don’t KNOW that. You BELIEVE it. They don’t.
There’s a HUGE difference between KNOW and BELIEVE.
I too think that I was too rough on His4Ever, and, dear sister, I ask your forgiveness for that. Over in GD I’ve outlined my reasons – which are not personal, but rather directed at the common idea of Bibliocentric evangelical Christians that quoting Scripture, particularly condemnatory injunctions in particular verses, is going to somehow work a conversion in the heart of a given person to whom they direct that quote. To me, this seems to have the effect of driving the people to whom the quotes are directed away from Christ, and therefore to fly in the face of what you and I are, in our disparate ways, trying to achieve – to guide people to Christ, that they may know and rejoice in His love, and find richer and fuller lives in Him.
So… I had good motives, but poor execution. So, I feel, did you. Peace?
No, they don’t hand out Chick tracts at my church. As to your question on homosexuality I hesitate to get into this again. I’ll do my best. I tend to think that it’s not the feelings that are sinful but performing the acts. However, there’s another thing to think about. At one point do these feelings become lust which is a sin? Just as it say if a man looks on a woman to lust after her, he’s committed adultery in his heart. I really don’t know how a person would get rid of homosexual feelings, I’m sure it’s a struggle. I’m sure satan loves to get people in this position. I just really am not sure how to answer that. I have to go. Am at work. Just can’t seem to get enough time to come here and read and answer things like I’d like to.
That’s a step in the right direction. The “feelings OK/acts sinful” is what the Catholic Church teaches, along with other denominations, and is a big improvement on your earlier postions. Well done.
Well, I’m a top, so Satan won’t be getting me in any position. (Although the right hairychested musclebear might get me to flip…)
Hmmm…
I’m a married man (27 1/2 years now) – if my wife and I make love, that’s not “lust” in the religious definition of lust as a sin, but the fair and proper use of our sex drives, to celebrate our union before God in a physical manner. I presume you and your husband feel much the same way.
It’s my contention that the scriptural passages on homosexuality are to be read in the same way as the ones on heterosexuality – don’t lust – don’t use somebody as a sex object, that is – but show love. The problem being (and this gets into arguments on the meaning of “inspiration”) that the human authors had no concept that two men or two women could fall in love and covenant a relationship before God, and celebrate their love physically as do married couples.
It’s important to realize that just as pride is the sinful misuse of self-confidence, sloth the sinful misuse of the human need and right to rest (commanded by God), and so on, lust is the sinful misuse of sexual desire – a good gift of God, for the procreation of children and the physical underpinning of love between the partners in a marriage (or, of course, contemplating one – an engaged couple who do not desire sex with each other have definite problems, and I mean no sarcasm – their spirituality is stunted by a sense of scruples that anything bodily is bad). More later.
Oh lovely. This spiritual whore makes this board filthy – attacks gays, spreads lies about the beliefs of Catholics and Mormons – refuses to admit that her vulgar posts are the bullshit that people with actual KNOWLEDGE of Catholicism and Mormonism have INDISPUTABLY SHOWN THEM TO BE – and Polycarp is apologizing.
This Satan worshipping sack of shit deserves no apologies from ANYONE until she crawls on broken glass, covers her face in ashes and rips her clothing, wailing for forgiveness for the lies she has spread about Catholicism, Mormonism and gays, and anyone who treats her as anything more than a leper is only helping her to further her agenda of bigotry and lies.
His4Ever spreads lies about Catholicism. She misrepresents, even after being told the truth, Mormonism. She is an anti-gay troll and controversey baiter. She deserves more scorn, more condemnation, not understanding.
To do anything less than rebuke her in every post that you exchange with her is to help her agenda, which is built on a string of lies and evil to its very core.
Kirk
Kirk…I understand exactly how you feel. But “return good for evil, be kind to them that persecute you, for in doing so you will heap coals of fire upon their heads,” remember?
I think you’ve been hurt in an unconscionable manner by exactly the sort of attitudes that have been espoused by religious fundamentalists – but you’re not doing an especially good witness to the God of love who, as we both believe, doesn’t care about whether you’re gay or straight, but about what you do with your life.
And to answer an earlier comment, yes, along with tomndebb, you’re probably the best human resource I know on Catholic belief.
Please, don’t insult Satanists by comparing them to His4Ever.
Kirkland, I thought you promised to behave yourself. Calling H4E a “spiritual whore” is WAY out of line. It’s apparent that she’s not terribly bright, and I agree that she is allied with some truly hateful people, but it’s just plain wrong and hateful of you to vilify her so unmercifully. H4E is making baby steps, and, with the right kind of encouragement, she might learn that gay people aren’t monsters.
In any event, you’re turning into an One-Note Annie yourself, with the constant jets of vileness and obscenity. To moderate your speech you must learn, young Jedi, if to be taken seriously you wish.
While it is imperative that we defend ourselves, we also need to engage the larger support of the TM’s, which is made markedly more difficult when you shriek like a Boston fishwife in every… single…post!
Kirkland, I’m with you, man. I have to say this little H4E love-fest is making me ill. I wish she’d stayed gone.
**
I do not believe that anything I said was out of bounds for the BBQ Pit. This isn’t the GD. If anything was out of bounds, any moderator who sees this, please remove the out-of-bounds parts.
**
How is it any different than the meaning behind the things she says about gays and Catholics and Mormons? Oh, that’s right. She hides her meaning behind insipid quotes from a stupid book. Oh, and what I said is true, while everything she’s ever said has been a lie.
No, she won’t. She’s not capable of making such a leap. She’s not capable of growth. She is your enemy.
At least I’m right. All that matters in this world is being right.
Taken seriously by whom? The step-and-fetch uncle toms and evil-abbetters who are coddling up to the spawn of Satan in this thread?
Playing nice with a lying, poisonous snake is wrong. Flat out wrong. His4Ever is a danger to every thinking, decent person in the world. She spreads lies, discourse, bigotry and a religion that amounts to little more than intellectual suicide. To apologize to her, as people on this thread have, for treating her the way she deserves to be treated only helps further her cause.
Kirk
Yeah, because that worked so well for Jesus.
H4E is evil. Utterly, totally evil. Every word she says is a lie, every thought she has is a sin. She is evil incarnate.
To refer to two people you’ll know, but others here won’t: She is worse than Shema. She is worse than Sierra2. She is worse that if you were to take the entire Triple S and multiply them by themselves. She is a villain of the first order.
By being nice to her, you encourage her. She has shown no intellect, no ability to grow. Yet you coddle her. To coddle her is to attack me and everyone else she has blatantly lied about since the first moment she began polluting this Board.
If God exists, he can defend himself against evil people like H4E who spread lies about who he is. Since he doesn’t do the latter, I’m no longer so sure about the former.
I no longer describe myself as Christian, because someone might here that and associate me with “people” like H4E. The religious fundamentalists have done a great job at driving whatever faith or interest I have in the divine right out of me.
You’re probably doing a disservice to Wolsely (though he’s gone off the ledge in recent months, become a right wing whacko) by saying that, but thanks, anyway.
Kirk
If you equate observing the limits of civilized discourse and discerning how to use language to its fullest impact “step-and-fetch uncle tommming”, you have much to learn, young Jedi.
I have no problem being vile in the Pit, as you shall see shortly when I pit the bejesus out of Joe_Cool. But when you reply to every comment wioth the same intense level of obscenity, it just gets …old. Learn to moderate your tone, and the times you do lash out you’ll get more attention. As it is, you are being tuned out by many people, I’ll warrant.
Kirkland wrote:
You sound exactly like her, only meaner.
Let people tune me out. I don’t care. I’m right, which is all that matters. If they don’t hear the truth because they’re too busy trying to pat the snake on the head and encourage H4E’s agenda of spreading anti-gay, anti-Catholic, anti-Mormon lies, then they’ll deserve it when she bites them, too.
Kirk
Except I’m not lying. I’m not lying about Catholics. I’m not the one lying about Mormons. I’m not the one lying about gays. She is. She’s the liar, and the lying is what makes her evil.
Tone is immaterial, content is all that matters, and all she has ever offered in terms of content is lies and true hate, the kind of hate that kills.
Just because she’s being polite while she spreads viscious lies about Catholics, Mormons and gays doesn’t offset what she’s saying. All of which is evil, all of which is untrue.
Kirk
So she lies. You do, too. So do I. I’ve never known anyone who didn’t. In your anger, you cannot see the irony that is obvious to everyone else. You have perceived that she condemns you, and your response is, well, to condemn her.