First girl, don’t be a wimp and get out when the fire gets hot! This is just the sort of thing Jesus warned you about! Fight the good fight, so when the day comes not even Yaway himself could deny you.
The more you speak sans the scriptures the more understanding prevails. You do not need the words of the prophets. Yours will do just fine, no matter how inapropriate or weak they seem compared to those in holy books. For then we know these ideas are yours and not the spewing of recycled hate. We’d be more inclined to read you opinion as compared to the opinion of the prophets,which we can turn to anytime we wish.
Second. I’ll give you there is more than one closeminded ignorant intolerant fool on this thread. (I’ll put myself there too, but I’m slowly climbing out) Stay around Kirk. You too may learn something about tunnelvision.
Third. Lib. I’ve never respected you more. Glory be that there are understanding folks like you among the Dopers. Keep spreading that message of the love of the Lord. Grace like that can not be hammered, only learned through the self. I feel ya brother.
Damn, now I feel the need to go to a Southern Baptist service and testify, maybe sing a song or two.
I’ve probably not been witness to ever exchange that has taken place between H4E and the board at large, but if this particular thread is an example of how we ‘save’ someone then I’d say we’re not trying hard enough… no, in fact we’re trying very hard, but we’re not trying smart enough.
You want to write someone off, fine, I’m not done trying to actually communicate with this person.
Mangetout, I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone. The thing is, we can’t communicate until we establish a common language. Insults may be common to all languages, but they don’t generally result in a way of bridging the gap (although the more creative ones can be good for a laugh or two!;)).
No, God didn’t say it. Your translation of the Bible said it. God Himself has not spoken to you. Moreover, you need to read the possible interpretations of the original Greek (Did you know the Bible wasn’t written in English?). Check out this discussion at religious tolerance.org.
The quarrel isn’t that you diagree with their faiths, it’s that you made false statements and made claims about their religions that aren’t true.
His, when it comes to Catholic, you said you agree with Jack T. Chick on them – which means taht you’re a nasty lying bigot because everything Jack Chick says abot Catholicism is FALSE. How can you disagree with the teachings of the Catholic Church, when you don’t know them, and all you know of them is the false version supported by Chick to back up the bullshit he spews on the world about the non-existant “Rapture,” abdout the lousy King Jimbo Bible, about the non-existant Whore of Babylon.
If you want people to respect your opinion on Catholicism, which people will do, even if you disagree with Catholicism – clearly even Polycarp doesn’t toally agree with Catholicism, seeing as he’s Episcopalian, but no one seems bothered by that – then you need to actually know what Catholiism teaches… and you have to totally repudiate your current “I’m with Jack on this” stance.
Otherwise you’re just another lie-spreading dolt from the Cult of Chick.
I guess the last thing I want to say in this thread (other than “God go with you” to TelcontarStorm) is that Gobear is right. The Bible is not God.
Like the Centurion, Gobear has no stake in this fight and yet he has a profound understanding of our Lord and His teachings. I have not seen his superior among Christians.
If all God had to say is in the Bible, then God is dead. And by my own experience, that is not the case. Therefore, God still speaks.
People like Gobear help me in my moral journey. They teach me that goodness and evil are not defined by scribbles in ancient books, but by people’s hearts. I do not recognize the god who thinks Gobear is an abomination.
Were Jesus here, he would be sitting with Gobear in a gay bar and telling him and his friends how much God loves them. The word “abomination” would never come out of His mouth.
For whomever it may concern, see to it that it never comes out of yours.
(Man, my original post was good…then I crashed…I’ll give it another whirl)
Mangetout said, “You want to write someone off, fine, I’m not done trying to actually communicate with this person.”
On the contrary, I think everyone involved has done an excellent job of communicating. H4E has expressed her feelings very succinctly, as have the folks on the other side of the fence.
This conversation isn’t about communication anymore. It is about what you DO with the information you’ve received. Now, we could harp on the issue for another week or so, just as H4E has. But neither side is going to sway the other to their point of view at this point.
My grandparents were rather hard-core bigots when my dad was growing up. But in their later years, they mellowed and started to see the unfairness and stupidity of their racist views. We can only hope the same will happen to H4E. But I’m not about to sit around waiting for her to be “saved.” This crew has done as much as they can. It is up to her.
I will choose not to hang out with people like her. Is all hope lost? No. There is always hope. But just as I won’t sit outside a church waiting for god to show himself, neither will I think that someone here is going to rephrase this argument in such a way that H4E leaps up and says, “Jayzuz! I had this all wrong! Forgive me for being so thick!”
There are other people, however, who are able to learn and admit they were wrong. Save the good fight for them.
Thank you for the kind words, Libertarian. I’m not at all profound, just a fan of theology.
The Authorized Version (or King James Bible) is NOT lousy, ans shame on you for saying so! The KJV, along with Shakespeare, has been the most profound influence on the evolution of the English language and has given us some of the most mellifluous phrases our language possesses: “Bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh”; “Am I my brother’s keeper?”; “I have been a stranger in a strange land”; “A land flowing with milk and honey”;Love thy neighbour as thyself"; “Eye for eye, tooth for tooth”; “He kept him as the apple of his eye” and many, many more. You may disagree with its accuracy or relevance, but you cannot disparage the sheer beauty of its poetry. The KJV is part the treasured patrimony belonging to all speakers of English.
You need to fight ignorance, not perpetuate it.
Here are some books you should read on the history of English translations of the Bible: Wide As the Waters: The Story of the English Bible and the Revolution It Inspired, Benson Bobrick
In the Beginning: The Story of the King James Bible and How It Changed a Nation, a Language,and a Culture, Alister McGrath
The Story of English, Robert McCrum (also available on VHS)
The Mother Tongue : English & how it got that way, Bill Bryson
Can’t argue with that.
I wish H4E could come with me to the new Sculpture Galleries at the National Gallery of Art here in DC. Among the Renaissance bronzes and Della Robbia madonnas, there’s an alcove with 13th-century stained glass and wooden crucifixes on the wall. If she could feel the reverence and awe I felt there, she might realize that she has been worshipping a God in a box, and not the majestic Architect of the Universe.
Kirk, don’t scare her away. The more time she spends on this slowly navigating board the less time she has to try to procreate with her husband. A man whom my heart goes out to, his life is most likely a living hell.
If His4Ever feels that her mission is not working here, maybe sh should witness to these Godless skeptics, who, I’m certain, will welcome her with open arms.
It is beautifully written, but a lousy translation to use today. Many of the words DON’T MEAN THE SAME THING they used to. The language is no longer clear, no longer easily approachable.
Modern day English speakers should either use modern-English Bibles or prepare to spend hours cross checking the meaning of even common words to make sure they meant in 1611 what they mean in 2002. Otherwise, reading the King Jimbo will cause far more harm than good due to misunderstanding and misinterpreation.
Also, it is the Bible of chice of Baptists nd other bigots, lessening its appeal for discerning Bible readers. Someone might think you’re one of those hate cultists if you catch them with that version of the Holy Book.
And don’t even get me started on the fucking imbeciles who are so stupid as to think that the KJV is the only “real” Bible… those people should be put down for the good of the species.
I’d also recommend a Greek-Hebrew concordance to look up word meanings in the original languages.
That’s just absurd. You make the KJV sound like “Mein Kampf.” Get a grip.
Polycarp, thanks for the clarification. I’m not sure what you mean by my "spirituality; as an atheist, I have no spiritual side. Besides, if the fundie version of reality is true, I’m surely damned to Hell no matter what.
