Oh, and BTW, I mostly consider myself libertarian as well, so I’m not proposing he gets tossed in the slammer or anything, but pulling the blinds, I think, would be the right thing to do.
So out of common decency, people shouldn’t put porn on their monitors and point their monitors towards windows people can regularly view. No problem. Definitely not a gay problem. Just a “leaving your porn where others can see it” problem. That doesn’t appear to be what the OP is on about. He specifically doesn’t want gays flaunting anything gay-ish in his perfectly safe hetero-world.
Oh, I realize this. I was trying to agree with the point that our society in general has degenerated. Maybe my example was not a good one (I really just meant it to be a funny story) but the fact that John Mace claims to have seen “a lot” of porn (straight, gay, whatever) displayed in peoples’ windows tells me that, yes, our society has gotten a little out of hand.
Moderator’s Note: All right, Happy Clam, cool it or take it to the Pit. You want to debate another poster’s ideas, or even point out that the other poster doesn’t really have ideas, this is the place. This is not the place for personal insults and speculations about other people’s sexual proclivities, personal appearence, etc.
Yeah, I’m sorry, but it felt good to write. I apologise. I’ll just content myself with saying that I think that Minotaurus lacks a valid argument and has failed to provide either any points in his favour or any rebuttal of his opponent’s points.
Minotaurus - why don’t you lay out in detail exactly what it is you changed, exactly why it should be changed(other than simply that you, personally, want it changed), and how these changes might be implemented to everyone’s satisfaction?
Oops; should read:
Minotaurus - why don’t you lay out in detail exactly what it is you want changed, exactly why it should be changed(other than simply that you, personally, want it changed), and how these changes might be implemented to everyone’s satisfaction?
I didn’t say “in people’s windows”, I said in plain view in people’s houses. But I have lots of buddies who are single, so they don’t expect kids to be around. I think the fact that your neighbors had porn visible thru their windows had nothing to do with the fact that they are gay-- just people who view porn and maybe weren’t thinking too much about who else might see it.
not one debater are dabatesd my op
All your dabatesd are belong to us.
Over two dozen debaters have debated your OP.
How are homosexuals trying to “push” their homosexuality into the culture in any way that heterosexuals haven’t been doing since the dawn of history? (David and Bathsheba, Antony and Cleopatra, Romeo and Juliet, Tom Sawyer and Becky Thatcher, schoolkids “going steady”, couples parking at “Lovers Lanes”, teenagers practically giving each other tonsilectomies with their tongues in the halls at school between classes, Sex and the City, umpteen romantic comedies and “date movies” every summer, people at work putting pictures on their desks of the people they have sex with, etc., etc., etc.)
Are homosexual “things” more vulgar than the equivalent heterosexual “things”? Is a TV show with the plotline “boy meets boy” more vulgar than a TV show with the plotline “boy meets girl”? (assuming equivalent depictions or lack thereof of kissing, sighing over each other, gazing into each other’s eyes, and hot wild full-penetration sex) Are two men holding hands in public more “vulgar” than a man and a woman holding hands in public? Are gays and lesbians getting wild at a Gay Pride event more “vulgar” than straights getting wild at Spring Break?
If the answer to these questions is “yes”, then why?
I’d like you to clarify your point by answering my questions above; all I have managed to ascertain so far is that you don’t really like homosexuality; fine - I don’t like caviar. What is it that you want?
Now that we’re on page two, here’s your OP again:
So what’s your debate? Has [Gay] liberation made society more vulgar? You say “yes,” because we see them on TV.
Gays have an agenda to push, inserting more vulgar homosexual “things” in our culture? You think this is wrong. But you haven’t stated what homosexual “things” you’re specifically talking about.
You fear what society will look like in a decade or two. Well fearing it doesn’t constitute much of a debate. What do you think it will look like in a couple decades, and why is it wrong?
If you want a debate, you need to more clearly state what it is you want to debate. In particular, you want to hear from homosexuals.
Well, I’m homosexual and I have no idea what vulgar homosexual gay liberation agenda “things” you’re talking about.
Gay marriage? Gay adoption? Gays holding hands? Gay kissing? Gay parades? Wearing Lycra?
What are the vulgar things your fear? Why are they vulgar? Why do you fear them?
OK I officially retract the part of the story that referred to my neighbors being gay OR the fact that it was raunchy gay porn. I fully adknowledge that all kinds of people with all kinds of sexual proclivities watch porn, and that some of them are not too discreet about it.
My point remains the same, that in a civilized society, people SHOULD think about who else might see it. This is not a neighborhood of a bunch of single guys, it is a neighborhood of families. The man in question himself, has children. I’m sure he would not want them to accidentally see what I saw through his window, so maybe he should think about other peoples’ children, as well.
I think I get what you’re trying to say. But if I may be so bold as to interpret what you’re saying, I think what you’re trying to do is find a little common ground with the OP in order to understand where he’s coming from.
I don’t think we should grant him any common ground, until he comes back and more clearly defines what it is he’s saying.
This isn’t about how in a civilized society everyone should think about the children, it’s not about allowing your porn to be viewed.
You think people should have common decency. Let’s not conflate that with the OP’s view of homosexuality. If he wants to go there, let him go there.
Cite please.
Bob
I agree with you on all counts, and thank you for your post. I think I was also still thinking about this post:
The OP wants to know if gays make society more vulgar. I say, no…society IS vulgar. As I said earlier, I find it ridiculous the way teenage girls dress these days. People were talking about the Girls Gone Wild videos. Seriously, these are just regular college girls…this behavior is disgusting. No one seems to have any sensibility about what to put out into the public eye, and what should remain private.
Frankly, I think the OP is in over his head in terms of trying to explain to this crowd what he was thinking, but I think the question is an interesting one…what is it that has made our society degenerate to this level?
I do want to apologize if I offended anyone with my story…I really was not trying to imply that all gays are degenerate. It was really meant to be a little lighthearted, although I must say that at the time I was a little taken aback by what I saw! It was really quite awkward, because it wasn’t like it was some stranger…we knew this gentleman as our neighbor and acquaintance.
So, I am sorry.
What’s wrong with including homosexuals in our society? You’ve mentioned the vulgarity so let’s take a closer examination. Are homosexuals more vulgar than heterosexuals? I admit that it’s easy to come to that conclusion when you see some of the gay pride parades. On the other hand if you see some of the behavior of heterosexuals at Mardis Grais and spring break you may very well come to the conclusion that they’re equally vulgar.
So have the growing acceptance of homosexuals in our society led to more vulgar behavior? I’ve not done an in-depth study of the issue but going by what I’ve read there were people questioning all sorts of things during the 1960’s and 70’s and there was a general attitude making sex a bit more permissive in some circles. I would postulate that the growing acceptance of homosexuality coincided with the removal of sexual mores and not the cause. The Stonewall riots happened in what, 1968 or 69?
Finally, let’s talk about what you consider to be having the gay lifestyle forced on you. How so? Just seeing examples of homosexuality in society is not what I’d call “forced upon.”
Marc
PS: For those of you who don’t know the definition of “gay lifestyle” I’m pretty sure it involves shirtless men dancing to loud techno music.
Have you counted how many times a day you see the “heterosexual lifestyle” shoved in your face? It’s on TV around the clock, it’s in the movies, it’s on billboards, and have you seen how many pornographic websites there are on the Internet that cater to this heterosexual lifestyle? Yuk! Why can’t they just be heterosexual without stop flaunting in public? I used to enjoy watching music videos, but now there’s all this vulgar heterosexual behavior. Don’t they know when to stop?
I hear that high schools are even holding “dances” where heterosexual activities are actually encouraged! I hate it when high schools try to push an agenda.