Yeah, because Palistinian militants keep hiding behind children. Sheesh. :rolleyes:
If the German Army had put the Hitler Youth ahead of them as they marched on Allied positions, would you be critical of the Allied soldiers that inadvertantly hit the kids while aiming for German soldiers?
Forgive my lack of reading comprehension, but what’s your problem with Cheesesteak’s post? THe Palestinian’s HAVE turned down every offer, and in turn have also begun bombing innocents and targeting religious celebrations. Those are just facts.
Realizing that it’s not at all that cut and dried, they’re facts.
Israel has specifically stayed away from attacking on Muslim holidays, but they certainly have no problem attacking on Rosh hashana, or Passover, Etc.
I’m just as sick of the fighting, and want it to end, but not if peacekeepers come in and strip away what Israel has fought so hard to keep.
Sam
Yeah? When? Cite, please, for when the Palestinian militants used children as human shields. Hyperbole does not help your argument.
GaWd and Cheesesteak, we do not wish that “peacekeepers come in and strip away what Israel has fought so hard to keep,” unless you are referring to the Occupied Territories, which Israel conquered. What we want is for peaekeepers to come in and force BOTH sides to act responsibly because they are living on a powderkeg. Innocents on BOTH sides have died and continue dying. We don’t like that and we want it to end. And we want the threat to the rest of the world to end. If that takes a Crusade (word mulled over and chosen deliberately) then amen.
And this bullshit in Bethlehem isn’t helping EITHER side. It was bad enough when ya’ll were only fucking with each other, but now ya’ll’re fucking with OUR stuff.
Unfortunately, “that bullshit in Bethlehem” is war.
As far as a crusade…if people continue to stick their noses in it, you might get your wish.
Sam
I’d just like to say that I’m glad that I’m not the only person who is unsympathetic of EITHER side.
I’m SICK of IT ALL! I truly am. The whole thing is just sad.
"peacekeepers come in and strip away what Israel has fought so hard to keep. "
And what of the Palestinians? Do you really think it’s just hate that motivates them? THEY’RE FIGHTING TO KEEP THEIR LAND TOO AND TO DRIVE AWAY THE OCCUPYING ISRAELI FORCES!!!
From your lips to God’s ear. It wouldn’t be a moment too soon for me.
Whatever, DZ. I still support Israel in combatting the Muslims and I hope they continue to capture Palestine. When they’ve conquered all of it, then maybe the UN should get involved. Once Arafat has been removed-whether by fire or flight-and a new government in place, things might settle down.
Sound kinda like what the US just did to Afghanistan, don’t it? Defending and retaliating against terrorists, invading, capturing, unseating the current government, and inserting a neutrally picked one.
Sam
Only sorta. The hatred between Sharon and Arafat is longstanding and seems more akin to an ol’ fashion blood feud than proper politics. I’d like us to go in there NOW, before the fascist (another loaded word chosen carefully) government of Israel gets its way totally.
Yep, good old fashioned racial bigoted hatred. They’ve been killing Jews since 1928, (as far back as I’m aware of). No Israeli power structure or army then. Just quiet helpless victims of racism.
Those who believe that Palistinians have some legitimacy in their opposition to the large presence of Jews in the holy Land, I ask you…Is it okay to be opposed to the presence of Mexicans in California? Before long, they’ll be in control of the state legislature? Yeah, pretty racist attitude isn’t it.
Chosen carefully, but not wisely. I should not have used that particular word. I apologize.
Actually, it’s more like being opposed to the presence of Anglos in California. The Mexicans were there before the Anglos, but neither was there before the Indians.
Hmmm…“combatting the Muslims”. How about the Christian Palestinians ( of which there are more than few )? Sorry, but it annoys me to always see this being painted as a purely “Muslim vs. Jew” issue. It’s not ( it’s just one facet of several and it’s not the most important ).
Maybe the word “muslim” was chosen about as wisely as DZ’s fascist comment, but whatever. You’re the expert around here. My apologies to all the Palestinian/Israeli Arabs I missed in that comment.
I simply think that Israel is in the right…as much as the US is. So if you support the US in it’s strike to “be resolved” against terrorism, then unless you’re being hypocritical you should support Israel. It’s the same war with a bit more drama/religion/BS thrown in. Palestine strikes, Israel defends. Israel attempts through political channels to get the bombing under control, Palestine strikes. Arafat says he’ll control them, he doesn’t, they strike. Arafat says he’s powerless to do anything, they strike. Palestinians MURDER people on one of our HOLIEST holidays(again), it’s on and Mother Israel has had it. They had it coming, and I hope this is a lesson to the politicos and the militias. It’s rather simple, really…IMO.
So go off on a crusade if you must, but I think we’d all be saved much trouble if we just left it alone and let things happen the way they’re going to happen.
Sam
For all of you who “just want peace” please explain how the peace is going to hold? YOU just want Israel to return the lands they conquered, and think that the Palestinians will be happy with it. Israel has already offered to give back over 90% of those lands, all of Gaza and most of the West Bank:
http://www.mideastweb.org/lastmaps.htm
http://www.mideastweb.org/CampDavid2.htm
That offer was soundly rejected, with not even any further negotiations!
BTW, I am still waiting for the laundry list of Palestinian peace offers… They even refused to provide a 7-day good faith cease fire prior to reopening negotiations, classy.
Ok.
This is the Palestinian Negotiation Teams reasons for the rejection of the Camp David accord
http://www.mediamonitors.net/pnt1.html
a link from the BBC, offering a summation of the sticking points of Camp David.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_852000/852726.stm
Israel has to stop the incursions, back off and talk. We know this in Ireland from experience.
I felt sick watching both sides hammer away at each other last night on the news.
I’m trying hard to understand both sides. Its getting harder and harder to understand either.
Cheesesteak, Dewey Cheatem Undhow, GaWd, grienspace. Please can I come and live in your world? It must be so nice to live in a place where the good guys are good, and the bad guys are bad, and there’s a simple (military) solution to every problem.
Unfortunately, I’m stuck with the rest of the posters on this page, in a world full of grey areas, and of supposedly ‘good’ countries doing evil deeds, and supposedly ‘evil’ people being victimised, where solutions are long and drawn out, and require negotiation and compromise on both sides. It sucks. I’d far rather live under your rose-tinted skies.
You don’t think the Israeli government murders people too? For the last six monthes they had a policy of assassinating any Palestinian they deemed a threat (and whoever was unluckly to be around at the monment), no trial just BOOM!
The death rate is roughly three times more palestinians have died at the hands of the Israeli army then Israelis killed by bombings. So, what population do you think is more scared? BOTH ARE!! Your simpictic labeling of the Palestinians as terrorists who “had it coming” isn’t going to cut it.
You may be blind to the sufferings of one side, but don’t yell at us because we acknowlegde the pain from both.
I usually avoid poilitical discussions here as well but…
I used to place equal blame on both parties. They did come off as brats fighting over birthday cake.
But now I definitely side with the Palestinians. The Israelis cry, whine, and scream injustice for thousands of years wanting a homeland. Fair enough. But what’ the first thing they do? Try to boot the people of Palestine out of theirs. You’d think a people that spent so much time wandering the desert might have a little understanding of this desire. Apparently not.
And I’m sick to death of my country being Israels bitch. While we’re soothing Israel’s tantrum, distracted by the idiocy of it all, the “evil doers” (snort) are planning their next attack on our intrests at their leisure.
Grrrrrrrr.
Rant over.
I don’t think I ever said the solutions to the Middle East problem were simple. I do, however, think that Israel has every right to defend itself. If they aren’t supposed to respond with force, what should they do? Sit idly by while suicide bombers continue to murder civilians?
Sharon asked for a week of no bombings to resume talks. The Palistinians couldn’t even give him that. And when Israel halted its reprisals anyway, the bombings actually escalated.
Whatever sins Israel may have committed are small potatoes compared to those of the PLO.
I posted this over in GD, but it bears repeating: no one doubts that American Indians have a legitimate, longstanding beef with the way the US government has treated them, beefs that include being herded into reservations. But if American Indians suddently decided that the best way to address those issues was to strap on some dynamite and walk into a shopping mall, we wouldn’t stand for it, not for one second. You’d see a crackdown that would make the Waco thing look like a day in the park. And rightfully so.
It’s pretty goddamn easy for us to sit here, thousands of miles away, and tell the Israelis to show patience and restraint. We aren’t the ones who are faced with sudden death just by visiting our local churches. We wouldn’t stand for it, and neither should they.
Whatever, you think what you think, I’ll think what I’ll think.
There’s a 3-to-1 ratio of dead fuckin Palestinians cause there’s at least, if not more than a 3-to-1 ratio of palestinians hurling bombs, firing weapons, sniping at guards, Etc. They attack, we kill. Where’s the problem? Should Israel try counseling them first? or should they fire on them to stop their attack? So fuck your bodycount.
Once again, for all you Palestine supporters…
Every time Palestinians attack, whether by rocks, bombs, AKs or what have you, Israel has a right to attack. Israel restrained herself for many months, 18 in fact. Israel has offered many peace offering which were never any good for Arafat. Makes me think Arafat just wanted this to happen anyways(I know quite a few Palestinians in the states who share my views). Killing innocent people in public places, by bomb, on a holy fucking holiday is sick, uncalled for, and Requires(!) an offensive.
You may automatically whine “But the Israeli soldier kill people too! THat’s unfair of you”. No it’s not. YOu attack, we attack. We consider it war. All the Palestinians see us coming. The Israelis can’t see it coming because of tyhe Chickenshit martyr bombers. I’d say it would be better to die by Israeli fire than some chickenshit with a bomb. Cowards.
I’d like to see the rest of Palestine captured, Arafat Exiled or Executed, and a new, NON-PLO government in place. We’re not stealing the fucking land for god’s sake. We just want peace and there will be no peace with a government that sponsors and sanctions terrorism.
Sam