I’m with Mangetout and Why Not. Choice or not is entirely the wrong argument. Even if it were a choice, it would be a valid and acceptable one, and it wouldn’t change the fact that what consenting adults choose to do together is entirely their own business.
And the reasoning that no one would choose to be so persecuted and hated? I guarantee you that, right at this very moment, someone, somewhere is complaining that people treat them like a freak, or a criminal, or won’t hire them because of the ink they’ve chosen to have tattooed on to their bodies. It’s no secret that there is prejudice against people with tattoos, but I don’t see people letting this stop them from getting them. Some forms of self expression seem more important to some people than the possible negative consequences.
When I was fresh out of school and starting various new jobs, do you know how many male bosses did that kind of shit to me? I had one who used to always rub his face and say “here honey, I’ll clear a place for you to sit”. That just means those specific people were jerks, not all men.
If you’re letting one gross person poison your view on all the other millions, well you’re missing out on knowing a lot of really great people.
I think there could be confusion by some straight folks about someone “turning gay” (which doesn’t happen, you are or you aren’t) and someone recognizing/accepting that they are gay.
“Who would choose it?” is a dumb argument. I would, but it’s not a choice. I’m not attracted to people of my own gender, so the perks of being gay will never be mine.
Whether it is a choice is irrelevant and stressing that aspect seems offensive, like implying that it is obviously a defect and inherently unpleasant, so we should consider gay people to be hapless victims worthy of pity and charity. Some people are gay, some people are not, some people are somewhere in between, and some people are asexual. It isn’t anyone else’s business to judge or moralize, as there is no immoral activity going on.
I’m putting myself in your position, and I maybe it’s just my own dad ego but I would not sub-contract out this explanation to others. Sexuality is complex and while there are very strong innate biological predispositions there are some elements of self direction involved.
The “it’s all genetic” argument is not going to help him with the “gays will burn” bible thumpers. The religious conservatives don’t really care if it’s innate or not, their response is “Doesn’t matter it’s a sin. You can be gay, just don’t do gay sex. Problem solved!”
The argument I would make is that there is nothing innately wrong with being gay and it’s a valid and ethically sound lifestyle choice and the people that claim otherwise are incorrect. And IMO that’s* your *job to make that argument convincingly not the gay community’s. If he is worried about being ostracized because he is not onboard with the “gay=burning in hell” perspective of his peers he needs to understand that his peers are being ignorant. That needs to be put on the table front and center.
There is no way to please everyone in this life and you need to take a stand at some point. If your children respect your reasoning and intelligence they will see things in context. In talking to my kids about these kinds of issues I told there “Here are the facts. You will make your own decision in the end, but let it be an informed decision.” It may have taken them a while to mull it over and we might talk about it several times, but ultimately they never disappointed me.
I’d say it’s certainly possible that some people choose to live as gay who might not be exclusively attracted to the same sex. And I’d also say that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it if they do, because that’s their right as free human beings.
Although Alice The Goon says her son is “definitely straight”, I think it’s still within the realm of possibility that he’s asking about homosexuality because he is feeling some attraction to other guys and is hoping that he can still choose not to be gay. Or he may have a friend in this situation. Either way, the approach you’re suggesting could come across as “If you ever had even the most fleeting thought about another guy being attractive, you’re definitely, 100% gay and are thus doomed to a miserable life that no one would ever choose for themselves.”
I’m going to go with you’re spending to much time and effort into this. In time as he explores his own sexuality he’ll be able to get a better grasp of what your taking about. As it stands now concepts of heterosexuality still sound foreign to him. So long as he isn’t expressing negative opinions towards actual homosexuals I’d let the concept sink in a few more years and try the conversation again then.
If it’s his initiative to interview gay people there are a number of organizations and gay straight alliances he could seek out. Or he could just do like your doing here and hit up people on the internet for information he wants Reddit has a few groups dedicated to specifically gay teens, it might be easier for him to talk to people in his age range.
Fair enough, that’s possible. I think whether that approach would be useful depends a lot on the kid and the circumstances. For some reason I never ran into the ‘Being gay is a lifestyle choice’ argument when I was growing up, so it wasn’t an approach that would have done anything for me - but a straight male friend once told me that, when the first of his friends was coming out, it helped him to get his head around the idea that being gay was as natural to some people as being straight is to him. So I threw it out there.
Burn me for a heretic, but you might be going at this issue from the wrong direction… does he know about Christian religion and conservative beliefs, the things that motivate them and why they act & react to the people around them the way they do? It sounds like you’ve raised him in a fairly liberal way of thinking, and for him to be associating with people who were raised to believe what the middle-aged white guy up at the front of the room tells them to believe (whether it’s the minister, the scout troop leader, the daddy or the CEO)… it’s a whole different way of life.
Some people don’t just associate with their own “kind.”
And it’s perfectly possible to listen to a guy give motivational messages every week and not he a homophobe. Heck, you can even be–gasp–a church-going Christian.
I can’t imagine not “associating” with atheists or other non-Christians.
I don’t think I’d worry too much about this. The fact that he’s even willing to entertain a discussion about homosexuality at 16 is a good sign. At least ya’ can see the gears turning. Which is much better than throwing your pearls before swine.
Keep doing what your doing. He’s 16, right now peer pressure is trumping logic. Once he overcomes his fears of disagreeing with his friends’ “group think”, he’ll remember the wisdom of his mother and come back to reason.
Still though, keep being that bug in his ear. I think THAT’S important.
Also, Alice The Goon, I want to tell you how wonderful I think it is that are teaching him to think for himself. I don’t imagine he runs into much of that where you currently live.