How do I keep from getting stuck in the "acquaintance zone"?

In My Humble Opinion
101

This. R3d, pay close attention to what Shodan is saying about dating being a ‘numbers game’.

Statistically, the large majority of women aren’t going to be interested in the average man (this is less true the other way around, I think), so if you ask out a particular girl that you’re interested in, most likely she’s going to say no. That’s not (necessarily) a problem with you, and certainly not with her, it’s just the luck of the draw. You need to get used to being turned down, and able to get up, dust yourself off, go along your way and be ready to ask out someone else. And you need not to respond to rejection by becoming self-hating and unhappy. The more you’re ready to hear a ‘no’ with equanimity, the more likely you are to start hearing a ‘yes’.

Some of the other advice given here is really good too. You need to start thinking about what you can bring to a relationship (serious or casual), and working on self-improvement, in some way or another. Too many people, I think, focus on what they want out of a relationship, rather than what they can bring TO the relationship. Working out is a good idea, so are getting involved with things like volunteer work, outdoor activities, etc… Broaden your range of interests, and be ready to talk to a girl about her interests and feelings, not just your own. And yes, you should work on trying to get better at just starting conversations with people you meet, even in situations where you have no romantic interest. Once you become better at casual conversations, that’s a step closer to becoming better at having serious/intimate conversations.

102

Oh, and regarding ‘mutual interests’, it also often pays to be more flexible about your interests, and being open to exploring their interests as well as expecting them to share your own.

103

This, exactly. It sucks to be turned down – no one is arguing that – but it really isn’t some kind of referendum on your worth as a human being, unless you MAKE it one. Maybe the time wasn’t right, or the other person wasn’t prepared to appreciate what you have to bring to the table. That’s entirely their prerogative, but it also frees you up from spending time with somebody who isn’t into you (and why would your awesome self want to do that?)

As for getting a “no” and behaving with equanimity: trust me, as a woman, somebody who respects a “no” and accepts it (“ok, no problem, have a nice day!”) is going to leave a way better impression on me than someone who makes a show of pouting, or worse, attempts to argue or push the issue. The former person has demonstrated that they can recognize and respect a boundary that has been set, so I’m going to feel safer around them in the future. The latter person raises red flags, because they’re more interested in **their **wants than the object of affection’s.

104

One more thing: this comment has just about the best advice ever for leveling up when talking to people (any people!) in social situations.

105

It is clear that I am desperate for a girlfriend and in the “willing to settle” mode. As someone said on another forum, the problem with my desperation is that I will fall head over feet for the first cute girl that’s into me and gets along with me (whenever that will happen). He’s right; I would. Except, I don’t really see the problem with that. If I am attracted to her and we get along and she is too…

Though one thing I want to address is that a lot of people will advise you to “stop looking so hard” or “let them come to you”. The problem with this is that they could advise the same thing to girls and tell them to let guys come to them. Then relationships wouldn’t happen in that case since both sexes would be waiting for the other. However, the real problem is that guys are expected to be the ones to approach. That advice works for girls because they don’t have to approach.

The thing is, I don’t how understand how I am supposed to get one if I don’t look. You need to remember that I am not physically attractive. I don’t want to get into this too much because I have ranted about this ad nauseam on various forums. But basically, I am short, a minority race, and have average facial aesthetics. So girls won’t just “come to me”.

Sucks how apparently you’re not supposed to get a girlfriend when you really want one and you are when you don’t…

Also, I heard that you have to be really extra good with girls to overcome being short. That worries me because as I said before, flirting and talking to girls is already a weak point for me (in comparison to people my age). This stuff doesn’t come naturally to me like it does for some people. We all knew it. I am pretty sure my parents know in the back of their heads too that dating will be a department in which I struggle in. Same with my (very few) friends. They also know I am retarded when it comes to these things. I bet they probably face-palmed in their heads and some of the things I said. We ALL know that I suck at the whole dating thing. And then to find out that in addition to that, I am allowed even less mistakes and have to do an even better job. If anything, I needed a bit of a physical advantage to neutralize the fact that I suck at this. It’s like telling Brazil to face Germany without Silva or Neymar. Look at what happened. Very demoralizing.

106

R3d, over and over, people are giving you advice and you seem to either be ignoring it or not seeing it.

First off, desperation isn’t attractive. You might see it as a sign that you’d be completely committed to her, but she will most likely see it as needy and clingy. Any girl who wants and actively seeks out a desperate guy is a girl you should avoid.

You need to work on you, buddy. You need to develop interests beyond violin, find activities that you enjoy (preferably those that take place with a decent-sized group of people), and expand on yourself.

From how you’ve described yourself, I don’t doubt that you aren’t having much luck with girls, because you’re so down on yourself and act like you don’t bring much to the table. So, let’s say I’m a girl and we start talking - when I converse with you, what are you going to bring to the table? If I say, “Tell me about your day,” are you going to have anything to say that is engaging or interesting? If not, then, I hate to say it, but yeah, I’m not going to want to hang around.

I’m not saying that you are, but these constant self-deprecating posts make it somewhat understandable that after a while, girls lose whatever interest they have. IIRC, you’ve mentioned a few instances when, on the first contact, the “Girl of the Week” seems to enjoy talking with you, or at least doesn’t turn tail and run away. It’s on the follow-ups that you say they seem aloof. Try to figure out why that is. Maybe they think that you don’t have much more to say.

And, I’m sorry, but I’m going to call b.s. on the “girls don’t like short guys.” When I was in high school, I know a lot of shorter guys who were studs. Regardless, though, outside of lifts and other minor alterations, your height is something over which you have no control. You’ll have to accept it and embrace it. Don’t use it as a crutch for self-pitying. That’s not attractive.

I remember you posted a picture back in your “hair” thread, I believe. You aren’t a bad looking guy by any means. I’ve seen guys who are much less attractive with pretty, engaging, pleasant girls.

I remain convinced that it’s your social skills (or lack thereof) that are holding you back. You need to make friends with guys (God forbid). It’s odd that it’s the second time today that I’ve felt it appropriate to reference, but a month or two ago, there was a thread asking if you would date someone with no / few friends. The majority of the responses leaned towards “no.” I highly suggest searching for it and reading it (or re-reading, because for all I know, you might’ve made the initial post).

107

That’s a problem right there.

There was some study that was done a while back, with ‘speed dating’ participants. (I assume you know what that is- if not, see the movie “40 Year Old Virgin”- alternatively, it’s sort of like a real life version of Tinder). The guys who were least selective in terms of their preferences (i.e. the ones who said ‘yes’ to the largest number of girls) were actually less attractive to girls (all across the board) than the ones who were more discriminating. You know how girls are sometimes told to ‘play hard to get’? The same works, to some extent, for guys as well.

108

I actually do have a few other things I am into. Just check out my profile page here. Doesn’t suppress my desperation for a girlfriend…

So what do I do? How do I just become “not desperate”? To me, this has been very important deep dow ever since my first crush almost 4 years ago, even though for a lot of that time, I didn’t really think about it. It was still deep down important to me, even though it has only been a few months since I again revisited actively stressing over this issue long-term after 2.5 years.

Meaning, this is has been a very important “checkbox” in my life, almost sacred. That is why I am so stressed and anything I see as an inhibitor to checking this box off (such as being short) automatically becomed an insecurity.

And okay, I might not be THAT deficient in the looks department but there are just so many tall white guys that are substantially better-looking than me and it begs the question why they would pick me over him. And I know that personality matters a lot but looks are inportant too, and especially matter in the initial atrraction phase, which is actually the part I am expetiencing difficultied with.

Even worse, even quite a few of those tall, fair, confident, and handsome dudes have a hard time getting a girlfriend! So if they are struggling, how do I stand a chance?

And of course it is my social skills. Like I said, if I could actually already be able to talk to girls just in a platonic manner, flirting would come easy (well, easier at least, by a lot). I have very few friends, but do look to try and change that next school year, but even that is kind of hard in high school…especially when you have no status…

109

Wow; the tall, handsome, confident guys have trouble finding girlfriends at your school? I was tall and handsome (although I didn’t realize it at the time), but badly lacking in confidence. The girls must be awfully picky. I would guess the girls don’t see these guys as confident, or else they’re all going after a select few girls. Seriously, someone needs to start a group in the community to help kids learn that kind of social skills. I sure could have used something like that in high school and beyond.

110

First off, life is not about fulfilling a series of items on a to-do list. If you look at it as such, you’re going to be profoundly disappointed. The sooner you understand that, the happier you will be, I swear.

Secondly, there is not one specific type that attracts every girl in the world. If there was, a lot of my friends would be severely disappointed. This guy? He is married to her. See?

And as for the “alpha males” who can’t get a girlfriend - see my initial statement. Who is to say that they don’t have particular personality traits that repels women, or that they are even looking for relationships at all? In high school, I focused on my friendships and didn’t have any motivation to “be tied down.” (I later found out that was for another reason. :P)

You know how you will be able to talk to girls in a platonic manner? Find common interests, and here’s the thing, sometimes, just approaching someone randomly in the hall works, but a lot of the time, it can be somewhat unsettling. I liken it to cold-calling; sure you might find someone interested, but you’ll have to deal with a lot of hang-ups in the process. You find the common interests usually through shared activities.

You know how you get “status?” Participate. Make friends. Seriously work on those two things. That is going to make everything else much easier, I swear.

111

Actually I think I exaggerated there. Sorry. But even that in very rare instances does happen! What I was trying to say was that there are quite a few substantially better-looking guys or more confident guys than me or guys that are less socially awkward that have trouble getting a girlfriend. So how do I stand a chance?

112

Not all guys are attractive to all girls. Sure, you have certain public figures who have mass appeal, but those cases are rare, and even then, I’m willing to bet you I could find someone who would not want to date them.

Confidence helps, but it isn’t the deciding factor. I could be confident as hell, but if I’m a boorish ass or have some other personality flaw, I’m going to have a lot of trouble getting a date.

Ok, how about this. List for me a few things about yourself with which you are unhappy. Don’t beat yourself up or anything, but just some things that you’d like to change.

113

Can that include physical traits that I cannot change?

114

That’s actually what I was wanting to see if you’d list.

The point was to focus on the things that you can change and find a way to accept and take advantage of the things you cannot.

115

Okay well, things that I CANNOT change:

I am 5’3.5 and my parents are short so most likely I will end up short.
I am of Indian descent.
My facial aesthetics are average at best.

Things that I CAN change:

I am socially awkward.
I lack confidence (basically I have no game).
I need more muscle (will work on as soon as I am done growing). I am not THAT skinny - around 19.0 to 19.5 BMI.
I have no status.
I can’t flirt.
I lack “on-the-spot wit”.

Keep in mind, even a lot of the things in the “CAN change” category are very difficult to do, and I don’t know how to.

116

Ok, let’s go through these:

Height - Yes, you can’t dramatically alter your height, barring travelling back to medieval times and spending time on the rack. But, as shown, height won’t be a deal-breaker for all girls. Yeah, some may not want to date a guy considerably shorter than she is, but there will be girls who do. Did you click the three pictures in my previous post?

Nationality - I don’t see how this is a factor, but being a white male, perhaps it’s just something of which I am unaware. That being said, I’ve been to two Indian weddings (one where the groom, while I’ve never measured him, couldn’t have been over 5’7") Given the population of India, I don’t think guys of Indian descent have issues getting girls. :wink:

Face - Once again, nothing is wrong with how you look. At the risk of a misunderstanding resulting in Chris Hansen come to my place, your appearance is fine. You must go one of those schools in a CW show where everyone is a model.

Now, we get to the important things - what you can change:

Socially awkward, confidence and status are all part of the same beast. Want to know the secret about high school (and life in general)? Half the time, people don’t know what the hell they are doing. You’ve gotta fake it until you make it. How do you fake it? Put yourself out there. I’m serious about expecting you to join some sort of structured social groups when school starts. It will help you immensely. I say “structured” because that will force you out of your comfort zone, which to me seems like a self-imposed prison from which you are wanting to break free. You just need to take the leap.

In high school, I was pretty popular - varsity football for 3 years (starter for my Jr. and Sr. years) on a very successful team, StuCo officer and in several AP classes. But you know what? Half the time, I was filled with self-doubt, wondering why “x” is hanging out with “y” when they could be hanging out with me; hearing about a party and wondering if I’ll get an invite; things like that. At my class reunion, I had more than a few people tell me how I seemed to have it all together, and I laughed because sometimes I felt anything but. Participating in group activities gave me confidence to interact and make friends who I probably would never have met if I hadn’t taken the risk. Hell, I joined choir my final semester, and trust me, I can’t sing.

As for muscle, that’ll happen in time. That being said, 16 isn’t too early to lift some weights. I’m not talking about a hardcore workout regimen, but (through football), I was lifting weights in 8th grade. I still had growing to do as well. Also, it might give you confidence.

And, here’s the coup de grace - flirting. I promise you, if you work on the other four things, you’ll get better at flirting. Just don’t put the cart before the horse. You are wanting to learn how to drive on the highway when you haven’t even put the keys in the ignition.

117

Yes, Calatin, when school starts I will join at least one social group. I will also make more of an effort to socialize at this orchestra I attend (it will have a lot of new people).

That should help my confidence and social awkwardness.

I have noticed that my friends a lot of times come from common interests. One of my friends (he is still my best friend) I actually made because back in fifth grade we were both into Club Penguin. :smiley:

Maybe I should apply the same concept when it comes to women…

But just so you know, when I say I have no status, I mean NO status. I am entirely unaware of any parties and have never received an invite. I am also not updated on any of the school runors, though I don’t give a fuck - just trying to explain to you how I am very disconnected from the school social scene and have NO status.

And man, prom is coming up in less than a year. How the hell am I going to get a date? I don’t think I am getting one. I think you are belittling my physical insecurities though. You just do not understand how it feels to be surrounded by tall, white dudes every day and/or see the girl you like flirting with one, or just girls in general flirting with then and walking around holding hands with a tall white guy. You do not know what it feels like to get towered by a charming and better-looking white guy many times every day.

118

Until you can understand that this is a self-inflicted falsehood, there’s nothing any of us can do to help you.

119

Is it really?

I feel like I got hit with the unluckiest combo. Indian men are the least desired when it comes to race. And we all know that being a short man is the male equivalent of being an obese woman.

Yeah, Jesse from Simple Pickup has no problems attracting women and he is 5’7 and Indian, but do you know how much game he has? Then again, game can be learned, but it is very difficult and frankly not a viable option right now because to learn game, you have to cold approach tons (that is how the guys at Simple Pickup did it). That is literally how you get good. Approach, approach, and then approach some more. The problem is as I said before, and so did you guys, cold approach is not viable in high school, unless you have very high status and are at the top of the barrel in thr looks department (and I am at the bottom). To cold approach, you have to go out to public places where you will nost likely never see those girls again (unless you manage to get a date through all that approaching). Yeah, the mall is 15 minutes away and the movies are 20 minutes away (driving times). Nothing like that is within reasonable walking/biking distance. And I can’t drive yet.

Otherwise, that is what I would do. Go out to public places and just approach. Even if it wouldn’t land me a date, it would get me comfortable with women and help in building my confidence with them.

And that is why, I have to stick to social circle game - only pursuing girls that are in your social circle or say is in a class or group of yours. The reason that is frustrating is because social circle game is actually the hardest, most complex, and most time-consuming. Cold approach is easier and much simpler. You eother hit or you miss and then next. Social circle game is like a type of project that takes a lot of time. And frankly, it does not fit my style. I am an introverted guy. Yeah, I want friends, but I am not that kind of guy who likes to party or have all these large social circles, and that is essentially how social circle game works, and that is why it is frustrating - it is my only option. The other frustration is that often times, my crushes are girls I don’t know, so my only option is to cold approach them, which you only want to use very sparingly for reasons mentioned many times.

Nonetheless, I think the solution is just that. Try and get involved in a club or two that allows for a lot of socialization and try and make some friends first, and then take it from there.

120

Sorry for any typing errors. That was done on my phone and for some reason the auto-correct is not working like it should anymore.