Also, Jesse was in a worse position than me at my age. He used to have really bad social anxiety. He couldn’t even ask the cashier what the time was…now look at him getting laid like there is no tomorrow…
He has a video on how he overcame his social anxiety: How I Got Over Social Anxiety: Social Anxiety - How I Got Over It - YouTube
First off? Good. You need to take action. This is a positive step and will set you down the right path.
Secondly? You know what? You’re right. I don’t know what it’s like to be you, just as you don’t know what it’s like to be me. But, what I do know is what it’s like to be a teenager, as do most (if not all) of the other posters here. I’m not belittling you. I’m trying to empathize, but I also know how, when you are at that age, every little thing is the most. Important. Thing. Ever. I’m trying to offer you some guidance and wisdom, gained from perspective. You are unnaturally focused on this, but I get it. You’re a teenager and that happens. Bookmark this thread. I promise you that, 6 years from now, you’ll look back and you’ll understand where all of us are coming from.
So much to address in this part…
First off, I have an overweight Asian friend who is probably 5’9" at best and he is a huge hit with the ladies. You know why? He has a welcoming personality. That’s what I’m trying to help you develop.
I’m unfamiliar with “Simple Pickup,” but if it is anything like that show on VH-1 called “The Pick-Up Artist,” then you really need to re-think things. Kudos to you for realizing that “cold approach” is inappropriate for high school. That’s the type of thing you do when you won’t see the person again, on the chance you get shot down. You keep citing this “status” thing and how your lack of it prevents you from attaining the popularity / girls / etc. that you want. Well, then focus on that. You might have the nicest car in the world, but if you don’t have any gas to make it run, it’s useless. If status = friends / popularity / etc., focus on that.
Yeah, the “social circle game” (as you put it) is hard, but it’s about developing friendships and relationships. Your sole focus seems to be on dating / relationships, but just know that most high school relationships don’t last. So, what’s your end-game with wanting one so badly? Validation? Being able to “check off” the “had a girlfriend in high school” item on your list? (I swear I’m not asking this to be rude or mean; I’m just really curious about your motivation.)
Actually. you are right. For me, not getting a girlfriend in high school is okay. However, not getting one in college though, is not. It is only going to get harder after that to meet women and men are horniest between 18-25. Those years are very powerful. I don’t want to miss out during that time of my life.
I just love the idea of having a girlfriend. As you said, I am in love with being in love. I have always wanted one deep down since I was attracted to girls, as I described earlier. The companionship part is great and something I probably value the most in a romantic relationship. Then there is just having that one person who understands you and you understand. Also, of course, the sex stuff is great too. All these elements (and more that I can’t think of now) put together just makes having a girlfriend seem like the best thing ever. Having that one person who you are close to, who understands you, who you are sexually attracted to, whose soft hand you get to hold when out in public, someone whom you spend intimate time with alone on a somewhat regular basis, and just someone you really love being with just makes having a girlfriend seem like the best thing ever. And honestly, I am not in it for just my benefit. I would also like to be able to love and show affection. Make her feel better after a shitty day, help solve her problems, make her feel beautiful, be there for her, and just generally improving the quality of her life, because as my mom says, when you do something for someone, yeah they will feel happy, but you will feel even happier. I am in it for both the give and the take.
Of course, you people probably think I am naive fortm thinking that relationships are all perfect and stuff. I am aware: there are ups and downs. Being in a relationship does being its own problems. I do admit that I am probably still underestimating the negative side of being in a relationship because as my writing suggests, yeah I am kind of a hopeless romantic, so I am biased in this regard and do have a tendencey here to underestimate the issues being in a relationship can bring.
It is also about patience too man. I don’t have much. I want to get a girlfriend as soon as possible. That is why I say that I am not okay with not having a girlfriend by 25. I simply don’t want to have to wait that long, and as I said earlier, I don’t want to throw away those sexually and emotionally powerful years away like that. I want to experience sex/romance like everyone else does between now and 25.
I am NOT looking for casual sex or banging as many girls as I can. No, I want a real relationship. Commitment. Sex is not all I want.
I feel your pain because I experienced it in hight school and beyond. Would your parents be supportive if you asked to see a therapist? I don’t say this because I think you’re “crazy,” but because you seem really unhappy and also seem to be having a hard time figuring out what to do about it. I wish my parents had dragged my butt to a therapist during high school. If your parents wouldn’t want to take you for some reason, I would guess your school has a social worker.
I have a son around your age, and it’s possible he’s experiencing the same things. I know very well how much it sucks to be going through this, but it doesn’t have to stay that way. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking folks on this board for help, but you may getting to the point where you need more than you can get here. If you find yourself not being able to think about much else, chances are you’re already there.
Yes, I have already talked to my parents about seeking therapy and they are willing to get me some. It may take several months to acquire though.
You are right. It is not uncommon for some of my days to be spent mostly thinking about this stuff. I occasionally lose sleep over it too (like I am right now by staying up late when I should have been asleep two hours ago).
Never heard of it taking that long to get therapy, but we’re in a different part of the country and my insurance makes it easy. Meanwhile, maybe talk to a social worker or counselor when school starts? I think to folks on this board are trying to understand, but I can see why you could think they don’t. It’s been a long time since high school for me, but believe me I remember. Thing is, though, you never know what’s going to happen. You could always be pleasantly surprised.
I’ll give you my take on this… a lot of people give advice based upon how they think they view themselves. Ask a woman if she’d prefer a guy who gets to know her first before asking her out and she’ll probably say yes. Because if she says no, what does that say about them? You may think she wants a guy to not get to know them first! Oh noes! But that exact same woman gets approached by a good looking and confident guy, who engages in some very light and fun small talk and then goes straight to “Would you like to go get coffee sometime?” and they’ll say yes. If it is a romantic interest of yours, you have much better odds of avoiding the ‘acquaintance zone’ by never stepping into it to begin with. Yes, there are people out there who were friends first… for months or years… before they romantically became involved. They’re the exception. Most went on a date, that lead to another date, and a few more dates and as they got to know each other more and more the relationship developed. But they started with a date. You get a date by asking for the date.
For my own advice on your situation, I never had any luck in high school. Small pool of girls and although I was a pretty social guy and had a ton of friends, I just struggled when it came to being able to chat up a girl I actually liked romantically. At 45, I’m still an awkward dork chatting up women sometimes. (Not that I do it now, I’m happily married) I think the best advice your getting and my own opinion after reading all this is - you need to work on social skills first. You’re approaching this as if there is some ideal and most efficient set of steps that will lead to a girlfriend. There isn’t. There are things you can do but there needs to be some foundation skills there first. You have to be comfortable talking to anyone. You have to have interpersonal skills engaging people and not coming across as creepy or inappropriate. You have to begin fitting into social groups. If you can’t easily chat with guys, girls with whom you have no romantic interest, peers, adults, etc. then how are you going to do it when (in your mind) everything is on the line with the girl you have a crush on? And you have to be interesting, more on that next.
Two of the best pieces of advice I got, that helped my situation were:
1.) No one will find you interesting unless you have an interesting life. Get out, do stuff, find passions. Be interesting FOR YOURSELF and the quality of your own life. When you have an interesting life and those opportunities come up to chat with someone you may find attractive, you have something to present that they’ll find interesting and want to get to know you more. But really, the bonus of enhancing your dating ability is just the bonus. Your life will be more fulfilling and enjoyable and that will translate to others.
2.) I’m a big fan of not asking someone to go out with me. I’m not talking about playing games like being hard to get and not ask myself. I’m talking about stating what I’m doing (cause I’m interesting and am doing interesting things!) and telling them they should/need to come with me. Yes, yes… I can hear the objections now. How dare you? You don’t know me! How can you just presume to tell me what I should do tonight! That wouldn’t work on me, that kind of cockiness would be a big NO. Yet, it works… with such frequency that I never “ask” anymore. I’ll give you an example - Betty Sue is cute and I’ve chatted with her for a little bit and think I want to get to know her better. I could say “Hey Betty Sue, it’s been great chatting with you. Would you like to grab a drink sometime?” I just dropped on her a decision point - does she want to go on a date with me!! She may say yes, she may say no. If she says no, awww… I’m butt hurt because I asked her out and she said no. I prefer “Hey Betty Sue, it’s been great chatting with you but I’ve got to get to a cooking class this afternoon. You should come with me!” Or “Hey Betty Sue, I’m checking out a new band tonight over at The Bar. Come out and have a drink with me!” See? I’m interesting. I’m doing fun things and it has nothing to do with her. And she’ll pick up on that. And I’m not asking her a yes/no question, I’m offering to let her join me for something fun and interesting. I’m saying I’m doing this fun stuff and you really should be a part of it. If she declines… oh well, I still am checking out that new band tonight or learning how to cook a tuscan dinner. I don’t ask again, or try to convince her. “Aw too bad, it’s gonna be a great time. Hope to see you around here again!” and I’m out. 
So yeah, that’s a bunch of stuff and you have a bunch of other stuff to think about too. Good luck and although I know it feels like a big deal at 16… it really isn’t.
I’m aware that you haven’t listened to much that’s been said to you yet and will not listen to this, but I’ll say it anyway: there is a one hundred percent chance that you will regret this attitude. One hundred percent. I might as well be future you, come back to the past to tell you the truth of this situation with perfect certainty. No one who has ever said, having no experience with love, sex or relationships, “this is how I feel about these things,” has ever had any idea what they were talking about.
You will regret the things that you are costing yourself in exchange for what you hope to gain. You will. You’ve created a thing in your head that isn’t in the world, and you’re trying to make it a thing that exists in the world, and it’s not gonna work out for you. Meanwhile, the actual world’s out there, and it’s pretty OK.
Of course, you’re a kid. It’s your prerogative to ignore the bloody-obvious advice you’re getting from all these people from many walks of life who actually know the answers to these questions; that’s like what being a kid is. You should do a few things you’ll regret. But that’s what you’re doing. The answers to your questions, and the solutions to your problems, are in the advice you’ve already gotten. The only question left, really, is what happens between now and the moment when you realize that those were the answers.
The advice to “let them come to you” only works for attractive women.
I would recommend that you ignore any advice to stop looking. In fact, just the opposite - hit on anything that moves and is reasonably presentable. That way, you get practice in talking to women, and going out on first dates. After approaching the twentieth woman or going out on a first date for the tenth time, it will be old hat to you and you will be less nervous than she is - and that’s good. You will have a reportoire of jokes/anecdotes/small talk and can use it to reassure her. Women like to be made to feel attractive, and you will learn how to flirt, which is less work and more fun than trying to be a pick-up artist when you aren’t.
You don’t sound much different from the average 16 year old. I was a 16 year old nerd with coke bottle glasses and no clue on how to talk to women, and I managed to go to proms, had several short- and long-term girlfriends throughout high school and college, and have been rather happily married for the last 32 years.
Dude - it feels like this for everybody when they are 16.
If you wait to be the alpha male before you start looking for dates, you will never get to be the alpha male and you will never get any dates.
Just go out and start doing what MeanJoe says - “I am going to the National Pie-Eating Championships - would you like to come with me?” “I wanna see the latest X-Men reboot - it starts at 7:00, should I stop by at 6:30?” “I am going down the city dump and shoot rats - I got an extra rifle if you want to come with”. Or whatever.
It’s like anything else- it gets better with practice.
Regards,
Shodan
High School sucks for so many people, and I know it totally bites to hear shit like, “it gets better…” but it does get better.
Your description a few posts ago about seeing all the tall white dudes, and feeling out of place, made me chuckle a bit.
Why?
I know that feeling, I’m not a short Indian dude, but I know that feeling, I’m guessing some of those tall white dudes have, or will feel that way at some point too.
If had had magic powers, I’d gladly snap my fingers and make all that bullshit disappear for you. Really! I would, but you know that there isn’t any magic solution.
I suspect, you also know that your only option is to grind your way through High School day by day. Still, you have so much to look forward to, and so much to be thankful for, so no giving up.
Here is my take on happiness. Happiness doesn’t exist as a condition, or a state of being. It isn’t something you obtain, it isn’t exemplified by possessions, or any relationship with family, friends, or girlfriends.
Happiness is merely a skill. That’s right, happiness is a skill you apply to all the difficulty you experience in life to help you cope.
However, you should also apply happiness as a skill, to all the good things in life too.
I know that sounds like some bullshit philosophy, and it is. Perhaps, said more concisely, you have complete control over your happiness because it isn’t tangible.
Hang in there, and fight the good fight. That’s all any of us can do.
What exactly am I costing myself? And what have I created in my head?
Shodan, how? Most guys are white and on average 4.5 inches taller than me at my age…so most guys can’t feel that way because statistically most of them aren’t being towered over by as many guys as I am and a lot of them are white so they also don’t have the racial insecurity. And as I said before, I feel this way because being short is the male equivalent of being an obese woman, except I can’t “gain height” the same way they “lose weight”. And then being Indian/Asian is generally considered the least attractive race for men. You say everyone feels this way at 16, but that is far from the truth because only 0.9% of the US population is Indian and 72.4% is white and I am shorter than 95% of guys my age according to growth charts.
This obsession of yours is costing you the chance to enjoy life, make friendships and have experiences.
As has been told to you, time and time again, everyone has insecurities. It’s how we handle things that matters.
I understand that you are 16 and don’t have the wisdom that comes from age, but look at everyone telling you the same things. At some point, there’s really nothing more that can be said. We keep telling you “x” and you come back with reasons or excuses, but that “new” information doesn’t change our advice.
At this point, I’m not really sure what you want from us. You’ve received some really sound and solid advice. Whether you choose to act on it or not? That’s up to you.
“Indian/Asian” isn’t actually a race. Indians are very different, racially speaking, from east or southeast Asians. And Indian men actually outmarry quite a bit more than Indian women. (Neither outmarries very much, but that’s probably due mostly to religion). Here’s the always helpful Razib Khan on the matter:
http://www.gnxp.com/new/2008/02/18/interracial-marriage-and-asian-americans/
Anecdotally, of the ethnic Indians I know living in this country under the age of 40 or so, most of them (including my brother, four of my five American first cousins, the brother-in-law of a girl I dated a few summers ago, my junior year college roommate, four of the six of my second cousins that I can remember off the bat) were most recently dating/married to non-Indians, and I date exclusively outside my ethnic group as well. I’m somewhat taller than you, but still well below the average. And assuming you gain another half-inch, you’ll be taller than 50% of American women.
I’m a 6 foot white guy (and was that height all the way through high school). No dates in high school, few in college, none in grad school despite being in a program that was majority female. Years between dates. My lack of dates had nothing to do with appearance. It had everything to do with an almost complete lack of social skills and confidence. These are things that can be changed. It takes time, and not having these qualities doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. The degree to which is bugging you shows me you need more help than you can get here, but help is available.
But man, the things they are insecure over aren’t as detrimental as the things I am. Being short is considered the worst physical trait for men. Being Indian, sure, I would say is like any other insecurity, but it is the fact that I am Indian combined with the fact that I am short. Tall Indian guys actually don’t have it that bad from what I read, but if you’re short and Indian, then you are fucked unless you either get extemely lucky or have mad game (and as I said before, this is actually one of my biggest weaknesses in life. Like I said, I am willing to bet that almost everyone I know in the back of their heads know I will struggle with this stuff and would even if I was tall and white). I will probably struggle to even have reasonable game, and here I am expected to have mad game in order to neutralize the damage done from being short and Indian, like Jesse on Simple Pickup.
Sorry, I didn’t see the last two posts before my last one was posted. That was my response to Calatin’s last post.
Everybody at age sixteen has something that makes them feel inferior. Too short, too fat, coke-bottle glasses (that was me), acne, no good at sports, no good at academics, no money, no car, nerdy clothes (that was me too - unfortunately still is), etc., etc. Everybody.
It sucks, but it doesn’t matter. If it is something you can improve with practice, like talking to women, you practice. If it isn’t, like being Indian, you ignore it or make light-hearted jokes about it and use it to pick up women(“I’m so Indian I get a red dot on my forehead whenever the coffee is ready”).
If somebody who looks like me could get dates in high school thru sheer repetition, anybody can.
There you’re just wrong.
Regards,
Shodan
I just did a search on Google for “Simple Pickup.” YouTube is blocked at work, but if the preview on the search results is a representation of the site (“What up player”), please do not heed their advice. It seems toolish and douchey.
Especially if any of them are wearing the Ed Hardy brand of clothing.
I think you should not judge a book by its cover and actually watch a couple of their videos in full when you get the chance and then tell me what you think.
Some of their tutorial videos:
Scared of Talking to Girls? Become a Beast: - YouTube
How to Approach a Girl: - YouTube
Then a couple of their example videos to show that it is possible to overcome physical shortcomings such as being short:
Short Guy Picks Up Tall Girls: - YouTube
Picking Up Girls in a Fat Suit: Picking Up Girls In A Fat Suit - YouTube
Now the problem is, as I said, this stuff that they teach isn’t applicable right now as all of their material is targeted towards helping guys becoming proficient at cold approaching. They don’t really have anything for social circle game.
You don’t need material.
What you need to do is forget that you ever heard the phrase “social circle game” and understand that you are a person living in a world, and so is every woman. And you can talk about things in the world – any of the things in the world – with other people, and if you’re interesting and cool and fun to be around, then that’s what the other people will think of you.
You want a top-secret sweet pickup hint? Talk about a goose. That’s how I ran my ultra-sweet social circle game on my girlfriend. If I had it on video I could show it to you on Youtube and then you could be like fuck yes goose game. Alternatively, you might perceive the following: that I am a person and my girlfriend is the kind of person that I get along with, in general; that I said something to her about a recent event that I thought was funny; that I dramatized it in a sort of funny and endearing way; that she thought that was cool. To the extent that the pickup artist movement can convince you, by whatever backward channels, that it’s a good idea to approach women and try to do that sort of thing, that is the extent to which it will enrich your life.
That’s the whole story. It’s not a trick. You don’t unlock women with codes you learned from the internet. They know about the internet also. You walk around on the surface of a giant ball of rock and mostly do whatever you want, and all the other people mostly do that too. And some day you’re gonna die, and in between now and then, probably you should try to genuinely, sincerely, connect with them in ways that aren’t copied from other people who you have mistakenly identified as wizards.