Yeah, that’s pretty much it. My sister has two brats and I do a better job of controlling them than they do - it’s because I get pissed, let the kids know I’m pissed, and follow through on my pissedness.
Oh, hell yes! Times two. And it’s the tiniest, most ridiculous things that’ll start the problem. And unfortunately, if you’ve been a pushover in the past, it takes a lot to regain any lost ground. I’d use the suggestions provided upthread and definitely expect some pushback. I can tell you from personal experience as a former pushover parent that it’s worth it to gain their respect. It saves a lot of time in the future.
For what it’s worth, I got into it with my son over a quesadilla last night. Yes, a quesadilla. It was ridiculous and resulted in a long, protracted tantrum, specifically because, until a few months ago, I’d let things go. He was extraordinarily rude to me in a way that only a 4 year old can be. Anyway, since I’ve stopped letting things slide, he listens to me mostly and reacts promptly to my requests. But those few tantrums we do have are intense and drawn out. Still, they’re worth weathering.
At ages 4 & 6 you might just try telling them exactly how you’re feeling, they can handle it as long as you don’t get too wordy. Kids this age are secretly hoping for the adults in their lives to set clear boundaries, and if their parents aren’t doing that they’ll seek that security from any and all adults they encounter.
Try this:
I feel frustrated when you don’t listen to me and it makes me not want to spend time with you. If we’re going to keep being friends I’ll need you to be more respectful of my needs, and I’ll do the same for you, deal?
I’m going to go against the grain and say you have another option, which I think would be a great choice: engage with the kids as often as possible, and establish and enforce your own house rules. You will be able to have low-stress fun with them again, and you will help them by socializing them in ways their parents don’t seem to be doing properly. Everyone wins.
Even very young kids can internalize and adhere to different codes of behavior with different people. You won’t scar them by being firm - they will probably end up liking your house better than their parents, after an initial adjustment period.
I’ve heard great things about Love & Logic, and I like Kids Are Worth It and How to Talk so Kids Will Listen as well. But they come from the same basics. Whenever there is conflict with a kid:
1.) Decide if this is a hill you want to die on. Don’t try to force a kid to wear a sweater because *you’re *cold, for instance. Health and safety matters you have to fight. Stuff in between you need to decide what you’re comfortable with.
2.) Once you’ve decided you’re laying down the law, you must follow through without fail. This is where most crappy parents fall, IME. Yelling at the kid to stop is easy. Hauling your ass off the couch to make them stop when they ignore you gets old fast. But if you invest in ass-haulage up front, they will learn to mind you.
At 4 & 7, they’ll be in a good position to learn your rules quickly. Just be glad you don’t have a 2 year old to cope with!
Thanks for being a good uncle. Go read some of those books yourself, and be a light in the life of these kids!
You’re young, so the kids probably think you’re just a big kid. But they need to know that you’re an adult and that you should be listened to.
Often my sister’s kids will call me by my first name, and my sister will promptly correct them and tell them to refer to me by my “auntie” title. At first, I thought it was stupid, but now I understand that it’s a respect thing. Whenever they do or say something inappropriate, I have no problem saying, “You know, that’s a pretty crappy thing you just did.” Yeah, it embarrasses them, but big whoop. That’s what teachable moments do. Of course they are older and capable of being more introspective. But as a family member, you should have some permission to shape the children’s behavior if they are going to be around you.
I really don’t see anything wrong with raising your voice a notch and saying, “Didn’t I say I didn’t want to do that anymore?” (wait for a response) “Yes, I thought I did. Now go play somewhere else until you can control yourself.” It’s not going to scar them for life, even if they cry and tell Mommy on you. It’s not going to make them hate you. But it will make them respect you in the long-run and allow you to curb in other bratty behaviors when they are around you.
Not to mention he’s their uncle. My aunts and uncles were always seen as authority figures, just like my parents. (Just avoid calling them brats – that was a big mistake on your part, and was bound to piss everyone off, even if it was true)
Ostracism best way to modify behaviour. This works, it’s why sending someone to coventry is so annoying but it gets the message across.
Inform the children they are not allowed to act that way around you and if it continues you can’t be around them. Then enforce it.
If do nothing, they lose nothing. It’s a shame society as a hole has taken such a dim view on this method 'cause it’s a great way to change someone’s behaviour
I totally agree with this. I am a childless aunt to nine kids. It really does sound to me like they are not being raised constructively at home, and although it may be counter-intuitive, I think you do these kids a great kindness by learning to be the kind but confident Uncle in Charge when they are with you. If they are being ignored at home, or constantly being yelled at home, you can be a calm, predictable oasis for them even while disciplining them. Let them know you love them, be kind and affectionate, but also let them know what is and is not acceptable and back that up with consistent consquences. You don’t need to be a mean jerk to effectively enforce your rules of conduct. You may find they calm down around you and act better in your presence than they do for their parents.
Did he actually call the kids brats to their mom? Because I can see how that would cause a rift no matter how they were acting. Bringing up kids’ behavior to their parents is touchy to begin with. I wouldn’t do it, but absolutely you should set your own rules and boundaries when it comes to yourself and your home. But trying to get unwilling parents to do the same thing just isn’t going to happen, IME.
My sister lets her kids do stuff I don’t let my own kids do. I may not agree with it, but I don’t get involved. When they are in my house though, then I am in charge and when they interact with me, I set the boundaries. Kids get the idea of different rules, different places pretty easily, I mean they have rules at school, sports teams, etc. with no problems.
And I second (third) the opinion that little kids just act like assholes a lot. I don’t know when the whole ‘children are innocent angels’ idea got started, but I see a lot of random, mean, stupid behavior by kids all the time, even those in the best homes with great parents. If they can get away with it, they will do it. It is up to the parents to correct and teach, over and over, (and over and over and over…that’s why good parenting is exhausting and frustrating).
This has worked very well for me with kids like the OP desscribed. Especially the speaking in a low, calm, serious voice. I have found that saying something along the lines of, “I like you, but I do not like the way you are acting. Stop now” is very effective.
This is what I came to write. Having a fun uncle is a great experience for kids.
It sounds like the parents (especially the mother?) are not proving enough disciple for the kids, which is a recipe for disaster. Kids need to know where the limits are, and they could be begging for them. Kids do this by acting up and testing limits. It works better for them if they have clear limits. Ideally the parents should be providing this, but it sounds like they aren’t.
The tricky part is that as a non-parent, you can’t really discipline the children, and especially in this case, it doesn’t sound like the mother would handle it well.
However, if you are really fun, doing cool things with them, then enforcing your rules by walking away could provide the incentive for them to follow your rules.
Absolutely.
Well, I don’t see a problem with doing both things; there’s nothing mutually exclusive about them. Be the Fun Uncle and make it plain you don’t hang around for snotty behavior.
Right, dangermom. “Fun uncle” should mean that uncle is having fun, too.