Of course it’s merely my opinion! :rolleyes: I NEVER posited it to be the be all end all!
So you’re arguing that extened family and a priest (for example) carry more weight than a boss or spouse (for example)? :dubious:
We’re not talking about culture here. Korean culture IS changing, and I’m sure that in a few generations parents won’t blink an eye at couples co-habitating. But I know that my parents aren’t going to change - they’re almost 60.
As for you, etv, I find your ideas about family baffling. You seem to consider your family as some sort of bank that you need to be on good terms with only if you need a loan. I find that distasteful. You say that it’s my parents’ loss if our relationship is damaged, but what you keep ignoring is that it would also be MY loss. And I really find it insulting that you think I’m not an independent person. I no longer depend on my parents for anything, and just because I care about staying on good terms with them doesn’t mean I’m still under their thumb.
Anyway, if you really think it’s so important to “be your own person” it shouldn’t matter whether you need their money or not. Are you saying you WOULD lie to your parents if you needed them to lend you a few grand?
But that won’t happen unless people like you lead the way.
I’m not saying you have to be the Rosa Parks of Korean familial relations; it’s just that you should bear in mind that as a part of Korean culture, in some small way you’re responsible for its future.
I think a culture can change without us having to hound our parents about it.
My generation already has different attitudes about things like pre-marital sex. While they may not fight their parents about it, they will most likely display these attitudes when bringing up their own children. And so on and so forth.
Let’s hope so. In this specific regard, I’d hate to see you turn into your parents.
Wow, who signed this into law? Hey etv, here’s an autonomous decison I will respect the ideas and feelings of whoever I want to. If that means you consider me non autonomous, then hey I really don’t care.
Trust me, I am quite determined to encourage my daughter’s sexuality as much as a parent can. Although my boyfriend has different ideas on this subject - he wants to lock his daughters up until they turn 30. 
When was I appointed President of the World? :rolleyes: I think it’s pretty damn clear this is merely my opinion!
Spanish culture has certainly changed that way; my mother found out I was not a virgin any more when she insisted in coming to the ObGyn with me and broke up into tears right there, yet most of my peers had had pre-wedding sex (many of them, at least in my location and social group, with their eventual spouse and the only person they’ve had sex with some 25 years later); nowadays the notion that “doing it with your intended is fine, doing it with a different person every night is not” is seen as old-fashioned. Like “good ol’ ‘see you never’” when divorce was illegal, often the way to change things is not by taking to the streets but by doing what you consider right, period.
There’s problems you solve by talking and problems which turn into top o’ the lung fights if you try to talk, and being able to pick your battles is a huge part of being an adult.
The throw in an imo or something so you don’t sound like you’re setting rules.
I’m trying to wrap my head around the culture and mindset of Korean families on the topic of co-habitation, but I acknowledge that my very westernized mindset is totally getting in the way. When my husband called my dad to “ask for my hand in marriage” I asked him “why bother, we’ve already been living together for 4 years and I’d marry you even if he said no!” I’ll respect my parent’s opinions, but I’m not the kind of person to ever do what they say if I don’t want to do it!
That said…
Those of you who are Korean keep emphasizing that “family comes first” and the point has been mentioned that once married, the new family (the spouse) takes precedent over the old family (the parents), at least to some extent. While I think that this is basically true from my point of view too, I wonder if it’s something that people like Hazel and the OP can use if they want to try and find a way to get their parents to accept them moving in with their partners before marriage.
The way I see it is that the new family has to be built upon something - the old family has years of tradition and stories and the entire lifetime of it’s members and the events they have shared together, but the new family has none of that. Cohabitation is a way to build a foundation, to begin the growth of a new family, perhaps to start a few traditions, upon which the marriage, children, grandchildren, etc will develop. You don’t build a house with 4 walls and a roof. You need something to anchor it to the ground first (unless you want a houseboat, but even that needs a floor!).
Anyways, without really understanding the dynamics Korean families have, I’m throwing that out there in case it’s an approach that might be workable for some of you. I’m just glad I’ve never been placed in this sort of situation! Good luck!
mnemosyne, a response from the traditional Spanish mindset. Keep in mind that I’ve known women whose bf’s had the behavior described below and, in most cases, got away with it.
What happens if she gets pregnant and his response is “it’s not mine! Oh c’mon, she fucked me so she’s evidently easy, she must have done it with someone else, you can’t prove the kid is mine!”?
Yeah, nowadays there are paternity tests. Matter of fact, in Spain a man who refuses to take one is automatically considered the father. But before such things were available, the response was “the girl is now an unwed mother, the fucker who made her a baby calls her a whore any chance he gets, and she’s extremely unlikely to find a man who’ll want to marry her and raise her bastard”. The parents of Korean 20-somethings are still in this mindset; they are OK with their daughters having sex (the problem is not the cohabitation, it’s the cofuckingnation) with someone who’s made a binding-in-their-eyes promise to marry them because that promise protects them from such sleazy behavior in case of an accident - they’re not OK with running the risk with someone who’s made no promises. They’re trying to protect their daughters - which is fine, but there are paternity tests now! (And yes, abortion, but there are many countries where abortion is one of those things that you do but do not mention).
I am arguing that the order in which a person values the feelings and opinions of others is irrelevant with respect to how independent that person is.
Get married.
No, really, I’m serious. If this is the man that you are certain that you will spend the rest of your life and he feels the same about you then why not?
You can wait to have children. Heck, you can draw up a tidy pre-nuptial agreement in case things don’t work out if that makes you feel better.
Set a date, get “officially engaged” have a big wedding that your parents attend. Or if you’re in a hurry to move in just go down to the courthouse and have a civil ceremony one day and then tell them later.
This way you satisfy everyone, you make mom and dad happy, you get to live with the guy that you have declared you want to spend your life with. Win/Win.
I love how the childrens opinions should matter to the parents but not vice verca…
Interesting. Thanks.
My gut reaction is that marriage doesn’t stop people from being sleazy, cheating, becoming pregnant by other men etc etc and that it’s incredibly naïve of parents to even pretend that marriage is all that holy and sacred and perfect, nevermind the ridiculousness of abusing their daughter (in this hypothetical example) over her bad choice in men or whatever.
I guess I struggle with people who prefer to pretend the world isn’t really as it is. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, though I can kind of understand the feeling that tradition=comfort, etc.
Thanks again for giving me that point of view on this. More things to mull over for me rather than study for school! Yay!
This is the wisest thing I’ve read all day. Also, in your next post, ‘cofuckingnation’ is by far my favorite new word ever.
Amerian girl engaged to a Korean man checking in. We have been together for eight years now, so his parents have mellowed a bit, but the first 2 or 3 years we were living together were pure hell. His parents were relentless in trying to break us up. Calling daily, sending their friends to our house telling us what bad people we were and how we were killing his parents. It was awful, and it is something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. My advice mirrors Hazel’s. Lie, it will be easier for everyone involved.
I have a better idea.
If you’re going to lie anyway, the lie should be that you got married. You get to live together openly, your parents cut back on the dictatorial orders, etc. And you can just say that it’s the custom here that you don’t change your last name.
A lot fewer, easier to maintain, lies.
Later, if you do break up, there’s just one more small lie – “We got divorced”.
I don’t see a whole lot of downside here.