How do you deal with non-support from your family?

First, let me thank every single one of you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.
If I don’t respond to you personally, it is only because it would make this post much too long.
Or I would have too many posts in a row.

I’m not trying to be coy. Pandabear, if I get permission or if things change, I will return with a better explanation. I can say that none of the possible scenarios described here, accurately describe my situation. No one is ill. It’s not about college.
But, my family knows I post here. Even though they do not appear to care about me, I do care about them and want to fix things, if I can. So I just can’t say more.
Also, thank you for the compliment.

I’m actually rather mad at the moment. And that feels better than sad.

I am not perfect. But, I have never asked for financial help from any family member. I have offered help to other family members. How much is enough? I bought a car for a brother that lost his in a fire. An adult 45 year old brother and his wife. It wasn’t much of a car, but I paid cash for it. I have loaned money to my sister that I have never asked be returned to me. I contributed over $8000.00 for my childs wedding. I have allowed my sister to live in my home with two untrained dogs. She was angry with me for insisting they live outside in spite of the fact that they pee and poop everywhere. She is down to painted concrete floors through out her entire house because of this.

Now she has initiated a conversation with me. And I am still trying to fix things, but she damn well owes me an apology.

She has made a deposit to my bank account. This is a partial repayment of a loan that I made to her several years ago. A loan I forgave. I have never asked her to return this $700.00. I have repeatedly told her not to worry about it. Her forcing this money into my bank account feels like a slap in the face.

By doing this, she can pretend that this is all about me being selfish and wanting this money back instead of me being hurt at her lack of a show of faith in me. If she was concerned about us, wouldn’t she ask about our financial situation instead of to just automatically disapprove? She does not know the state of our finances. I do know the state of hers, because she has turned to me numerous times for help. She is in terrible financial shape. She has no right.

She is being unfair to me, to us. We deserve better than this. If we are better off, it is because we don’t travel or buy dirt bikes or carry credit card debt at all. We have always paid bills before anything else, something no other member of my family can claim. I have always paid myself first by saving money, then the bills, then other stuff. Including helping other people in my family.
And it isn’t all just luck. I have worked damn hard since I was 14 years old.

She can tell me she is disappointed in me. Well, I’m pretty fucking disappointed myself. But not in myself.

And yet, I still want to deserve her affection.

I did respond to her e-mail. I tried not to be ugly, but I did demand an apology. She does not get to pretend this has anything to do with a loan that I never asked be repaid.

Thanks again all of you. I have crushes on every single one of you. You are nicer to me than anyone in my own darn family. Except my husband. He really really likes me. Even after almost 30 years. So, I can’t be too awful. :slight_smile:

When you say “pick up the pieces,” what do you mean? That they’re going to have to loan you money/support you if it fails? If that’s the case, then I think they should have at least some say since it’s going to affect them.

I’m also wondering if it’s not that they’re looking out for an inheritance but if they’re genuinely concerned. Are you the one who started a thread about advice about running a deli? I remember being a little concerned then because you guys seemed a little in over your head. Maybe your relatives genuinely think this could be a very risky venture.

ETA: If it genuinely is that they want to spend the money on that person’s “fervent wish,” then that does suck.

NWYE, I’m going to be blunt here and say that your sister sounds like a user and a jerk.

You were nice enough to let her share your home, untrained dogs and all, and loan her money when she’s gotten herself into debt by living beyond her means, and now that you want to do something for yourself she’s seeing the money fountain dry up. So she’s being passive-aggresive by repaying a whopping $700 loan out of thousands and saying “she’s disappointed in you” in the hopes that she can twist your desire for her approval and your goodness into giving up your goals for the sake of the family.

The one thing that really jumped out at me from your last post was

That you still feel such affection for her qualifies you for sainthood right there IMO. The problem is, her affection comes at a price.

missed the edit window.

For what it’s worth, you sound to me like a very, very un-awful person :slight_smile: Warm fuzzies back atcha!

NWYX, I’m guessing they see you as a safety net and your money as “theirs.” I suggest thanking them for their suggestions and telling them to get their noses out of your deli business.

And discontinue offering financial help to relatives. Ironically it makes them worse off financially, as they rely on your money instead of their own efforts.

I need a little more explanation on the sister/loan thing. Did she actually say she’s disappointed in you or is it an unspoken thing? Why is she paying you back the money when you’ve told her not to worry about it?

Hell if she wants to give out money that she’s not obligated to give out, my bank account number is 5106 … :smiley:

I would almost rather be homeless and I hate the cold, than ask them for help. But, yes it’s possible that I could someday need a place of shelter. If the absolute worst happens. But they don’t know that. Not one person has asked me for details.

Yes, that was me on the deli thread. I know some people expressed some concerns about whether we are in over our heads or not. We might be. I really do believe that we would almost literally have to serve crap to fail and I think that the biggest risk we are taking is being too busy too quickly. But again, not one person has asked us for details. We are taking a calculated risk. But in the end, who gets to make the decision about whether it’s a good or bad risk. Us or them?

It feels like we are being asked to make more sacrifices than anyone else.

We are supposed to contribute to the cause, but they get to not save any of their money. We are supposed to help, but they don’t have to give up trips to New York, Hawaii, X Games in order to contribute themselves. Even the person whose wish we’re talking about. We live within our means, but they don’t have to. We are not allowed to enjoy the fruits of our labor. We’ve been frugal, they have not been and still aren’t. And still, we’re the bad guys. It’s ludicrous. I can’t believe I even fell for it. They almost had me convinced that I was wrong here. If we ever have to ask them for financial help, they can rub our faces in it, but until then, we have absolutely earned and deserve their moral support.

See, I feel better.

I would say that, as a good family member you “owe” them some information about what you’re doing and why, because for them, as good family members, they ought to want to be aware of what’s going on and be able to provide opinions and support. Ultimately, it’s your money and you should do with it what you want, but if they raise legitimate concerns, you would be foolish not to consider that.

If their concerns are just about the possibility that they might have to support you, that’s selfish on their part. It’s one thing to raise the idea that you might be taking an unreasonable risk, but it shouldn’t be as much that it would be a burden on them but that you might be ruining your lives. It sounds like you’re taking a well thought out and calculated risk. In that case, they may have legitimate concerns about what factors you took into account or they may just be more cautious in general, but risk comes with everything.

Besides, the chance always exists that family will have to support someone even if they’re living a very low risk life. Hell, I don’t life a very risky life, but it’s not completely impossible that I could get hit by a car or lose my job and have difficulty finding one for long enough that I’d need support from family.

IMO, no. Certainly you’ll probably want to leave something, not because its owed, but because you have no use for it after you’re gone and it makes sense to help out people you care about to some extent greater than just giving it all to charity.

I touched on this above, but it basically boils down to the idea that a caring family should want to inform eachother of major decisions and should want to make sure that they’re looking at it and considering all the angles.

It depends on what their opinions are grounded in. If they’re only legitimately concerned about your outlook, then it’s worth considering. If they’re just worried that if you fail they might have to help you get back on your feet, then not so much.

Sorry, yes she has written the very words. She is disappointed in me, but not for this particular problem. Our issues go back awhile.

I think she is paying me back so that she can pretend that she doesn’t owe me an apology. This shifts the focus. She is broker than a broke dick dog. She can’t afford to pay me back. So what other reason could there be?

Families are a PITA. :frowning:

It sounds to me like they want the money themselves. It is not theirs. You want to open a deli and make a load of money and have the fun of a deli. Go for it. Screw 'em. Stop lending them money, and stop including them on your decision making. Unless.

Unless they help out lots with the deli. Including telling everyone about it.

Honestly, with these new details, it sounds like sis doesn’t even care about your wellbeing, just that if you don’t do well with the deli her fall back source of $$ will dry up.

Reading your post makes me want to punch her in the boob, on your behalf.

Anyway, I really wouldn’t worry about it - it’s not your responsibility to financially care for these ingrates. If your sister continues to be a twat, write up a bill for the loan and present it to her with the $700 payment credited and the $7,300 still owing. I imagine that will shut her up.

The only thing that I could maybe fault you for, not what you’d expect, is not setting firmer boundaries with your family sooner, and leading them to believe that you never would. That said, you are allowed to grow and change, and if they don’t like it, they’ll have to learn to live with it.

When I read things like this, I am very glad I am an only child.

These additional details definitely make it sound like the primary, if not only, source of their disagreement is the fear that their gravy train is going to be cut off. I have absolutely no sympathy for their POV in the matter. It’s hard (well, more like impossible) to be objective with family and emotional ties, but I certainly don’t feel like you owe them a darned thing, or any input into your decisions.

You guys are so good to me.

I don’t hate my sister. I just wish she didn’t hate me. Or act like she does. I make excuses for her because life has not been as easy on her as it has been on me. I feel bad about that.

I’m still waiting for her response to my e-mail where I finally stood up for myself. I asked her to give it a lot of thought and not act defensively, which she is prone to do. So, I’m expecting the worst and hoping for the best. She’s extremely stubborn.

We are at least a week away from an answer on whether or not we can even go forward on the deli anyway. The new requirements by the city may make this something we can’t do. But maybe that’s a good thing. It gives us time to think about everything. Go over what we think our assets are and then go from there.

After all this though, it’s hard to feel as excited about the whole thing. My husband still wants to move forward though, if we can. The only job he has been able to find in the last 18 months, was a two week stint with a female barracuda for a boss.

He gave up a decent job to allow me to move closer to family. I have to give him my support, even if I am scared to death that my lack of excitement will not help our chances.

Oy, life can sure be a booger at times.

Thanks again everyone.

NWYE you are demonstrating levels of compassion, conscience, and patience which are phenomenal. I’ve been lurking and reading through this thread to see if I can add any advice, compliments, observations, or commiseration that hasn’t already been posted by others. Some of this is difficult because it hits close to home; some of it is easy because I can see notable cross-cultural contrasts.


While reading the many posts and responses in this thread, I’ve been reminded of an old Puritan folk tale that got watered down over time. You might remember it as I paraphrase:

Mama hen gets up at sunrise and says, “I’m going to go scratch up some worms for breakfast. Who will help me?”

“Not I” says the cat, slurping milk from a bowl.
“Not I” said the pig, munching slop from a trough.

Mama hen finishes, comes back, and says “I’m going to….who’s with me?”
“Not I” says the cat; “Not I” says the cow…

[Repeat pattern a few times.]

Mama hen says, “I’m going to bake a pie….”
“Not I”; “Not I”

In the Puritan version, Mama Hen eats her pie alone. The Puritan emphasis is that if you don’t contribute (to Puritans, work = honoring God) you don’t get the benefits (pie, salvation, heaven, whatever).

In the watered-down version, Mama Hen sees the sad eyes of her neighbors as they beg for morsels of her fresh-baked pie; she gives in and shares with everyone. This emphasizes a happy-for-everyone ending and even manages to show Mama Hen as extremely kind-hearted, even when met with indifference and sloth.


If you were part of an older patriarchal society or even a relatively modern Asiatic culture, the whole situation would be easier: As soon as you married your husband you left your family and became part of his family. You would then have no obligations toward your parents or siblings, nor they to you.

But this is a modern world and the rigid ideals of the past are less clearly defined and less strictly followed. The discussions above show that you have chosen not to abandon your roots and that choice has and will cost you. Remember though that, for the last 200 or so years, more and more societies have embraced the notions of individuality and a fundamental right for every person to pursue happiness.

There are two caveats to that, though: Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr famously said, “My right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.” And various scholars have pointed out that the famously identified right is about pursuit, not happiness itself. [Anyone who says you have a right to be happy is trying to sell you something, with a claim that it will make you happy.]

So you’ve established through past behavior that your relatives have a right to ask for your assistance if it makes them happy. You have also shown that you have been willing to provide that assistance. You can, at any time, refuse to assist – particularly if doing so will interfere with your own pursuit of happiness. Their right to pursue your benevolence stops when it harms your efforts to pursue your own happiness (e.g. by investing in a business venture).


At some point in the past, you chose to make an extremely fortunate man part of your family. Cutting through cultural differences and antiquated notions, part of the vows you took at that time included commitments to provide support however you thought was best. I’m going to assume that your marriage was a conscious voluntary act, the point being that such independent volition is not possible regarding the parents and siblings you grow up with, and such a conscious commitment is neither made nor automatically honored amongst parents, children, or siblings. [And, while some Asiatic cultures have a formalized and notable pressure to engage in filial piety – family cohesion and mutual obligation – reality and those idealized values are not always congruent.]

In other words, you might think it’s a nice ideal to have a close cohesive family, but the “One for All and All for One” motto doesn’t govern your interactions. In fact, each family member is free to do as she wishes, whether or not she is aware or mindful of the ramifications and consequences of her decisions and actions. Many children, siblings, and even parents will act in their own best interest, consciously or unconsciously subverting the best interests of the family or particular relatives so that their own gain comes first.

On the other hand, there were some for richer/for poorer, in sickness and in health -type recitations made between you and your husband and I, for one, would think that means you have an obligation to be thoroughly honest about the goal and its chances of success and support not just his pursuit of happiness, but balance that with support for his overall happiness – opening a deli may fulfill his life-long dream; managing a retail business day-in and month-out may give him ulcers; not making the attempt at all might make him depressed; trying and failing may make him miserable. You know him better than anyone else (including, probably, him) so your experience and wisdom may be the most salient factors here.


Your siblings (and parents?) are expressing doubts about your idea to open a deli. Various analytical dopers have suggested A) Those relatives are truly concerned about the effect of this unprecedented risk on your mental/financial/emotional well-being B) Those relatives are concerned for themselves and how your mental/financial/emotional well-being will affect their situations C) Some combination of the two.

The fact of the matter is that food-service businesses have been hardest hit in recent years, with contamination scares and decreased discretionary spending taking big bites out of consumption figures. [Puns intended.] Therefore it’s not completely unreasonable to be concerned about this risk and/or worried that it will fail.

On the other hand, various analysts repeatedly claim we are through the worst of the global recession and on the way back toward prosperity. Couple that with the old pattern of Small Business Loans being given five years to fly or fail and you might be delving into the deli idea at just the right time.

My local recreation department sends out catalogues of its community class offerings. There’s frequently a course or two on ‘Evaluating your start-up business market’ or some such along with the kids gymnastics and teen dance offerings. That type of course would be your first prudent investment in the deli direction.

At the very least, you and your husband owe it to yourselves to conduct exhaustive research on the plusses and minuses of the venture and to be brutally honest with yourselves when reviewing the results of your investigations and calculations. Then you can decide to…
· dive in head-first and waist-deep,
· say, “I can’t do this but I won’t stand in your way”
· say, “Honey, this is a bad idea because….”

The fact that banks aren’t flooding anyone’s mailboxes with SBL offers is probably a good thing. If they turn you down, they’re your final safety net; if your proposal, product, and calculations are convincing enough, you probably have a good chance of succeeding with the venture.

—G!
I’m so confused by the things I read.
I need the truth

But the truth is

I don’t know who to believe
The left says ‘yes’ and the right says ‘no’
I’m so confused
and the more I learn
Well the less that I know
. Dennis DeYoung (Styx)
. Borrowed Time
. from Cornerstone

Grestarian, My gosh you went to a lot of trouble on my behalf. Thank you.

We made some positive progress today. We’re being careful. Trying to take everything into consideration. The next two weeks should settle things one way or another.

Thanks again. That was very thoughtful of you.

I know of a marginally similar story. My sister is unmarried and childless, and comfortably upper middle-class, which is way better than most of the rest of the family. My other sister has a daughter who somehow came to believe (possibly through he mother – the one I call the "Evil Sister) that she would end up being the recipient of all the nice stuff – house, car, artworks, etc. We know this because our niece has been crass enough to talk about it on more than one occasion.

This sense of entitlement pissed off my sister so much that she amended her will to virtually eliminate the niece’s inheritance. I’m pretty sure that she hasn’t mentioned this to the niece, who has a big unpleasant surprise coming some day. OTOH, she never said anything to the niece along the lines of, “Some day this will all be yours.”

Turn out I’m the theoretical beneficiary of this change of heart. :slight_smile: But it’s pretty unlikely – statistically, I’ll be dead well before her.

Maybe you can talk her into giving you a small taste in advance Boyo. :slight_smile:

I have a difficult time blaming some of my family for this sense of entitlement, when I am at least partly to blame for them feeling that way. I had the most financial success and though I wouldn’t call myself overly generous, I’m not, I can be tight with a buck. But I have been the go to person when someone needs help. And my mom taught me some bad lessons, one of which is you buy love and affection, so that’s how my family is used to things.

But I can’t do it anymore. I have to look out for mine and my husbands welfare. We are all we’ve got and we need to watch out for ourselves for awhile. We believe that this is our best shot of returning to the days when we were earning enough money to be able to help and/or buy attention from our family. We’re very motivated. We do not ever want to be poor again.

I’m sure things will work out fine. They always do, eventually. We just have to get through this not fun part.

It might all end up with your niece anyway, since she’ll probably outlive all of you, but she’ll get a rude awakening before that day. :slight_smile: