"How I Met Your Mother" [final season]

[ZipperJJ]

@well_he_s_back

I can’t remember - was Robin shown to be upset when she found she couldn’t bear children? (& I’m still so disappointed in the ending that I won’t Rewatching episodes to find out)

According to theepisode recap from season 7, yes.

When Ted asks Robin what’s wrong, she says the first lie that came into her head: she can’t be a Canadian Olympic pole vaulter because she is too tall. Following the ridiculous lie, Ted, Barney, and Lily all begin doing exactly what Robin was afraid of.
…
Robin goes with Ted, Lily, and Barney (while Marshall is still on the roof) to “We B Babies” again, and Lily notices that Robin is quite visibly upset. Robin tells her that she never intended on being a “pole vaulter,” but now that she’s been told that she can’t, it’s heartbreaking, just in case she ever decided that she wanted to do it. She leaves the store crying when Ted shows her a Canadian-esque onesie.

I liked that episode. I feel that I would react the same way.

[Justin_Bailey]

@ZipperJJ

Are you arguing that Molly doesn’t want to have children or am I mis-reading you? Mike and Molly are desperately trying. They haven’t been told they can’t yet, have they?

I’m not arguing anything, I don’t watch Mike & Molly. Just pointing out that she’s a woman in her mid 40s who has not given birth to a child. It’s more common on TV than some people believe.

[Quimby]

@well_he_s_back

I can’t remember - was Robin shown to be upset when she found she couldn’t bear children? (& I’m still so disappointed in the ending that I won’t Rewatching episodes to find out)

Yes. In fact they spent an entire episode on it. “Symphony of Illumination”.

[Lord_Ashtar]

@BigT

Huh. You agree with my post that Fenris says I can’t be right about because I’ve not watched the entire show. That, even though I flat out admitted that I was going by other people’s opinions, I can still know what I’m talking about. Funny how that works.

Are you white-knighting someone else’s opinion on a TV show you haven’t watched?

[BigT]

@Lord_Ashtar

Are you white-knighting someone else’s opinion on a TV show you haven’t watched?

I thought I was clear with my response to Fenris. I am discussing a TV show that I happen to like, not my personal foibles. If you have a problem with me, take it to the Pit, instead of shoehorning in things I’ve been accused of in the past that don’t even make sense in this context. (You really think you can “white knight” an opinion? Do you not know what the term means?) This thread is not about me. This is the last time I will respond to this nonsense instead of just reporting the hijack and/or jerkiness.

[BigT]

And now back to discussing the show. I found this well-articulated opinion on YouTube. I think it very well articulates the narrative problem I was trying to talk about, getting around my admitted limited knowledge of the entire show.

The truth is [not] that the series finale does not work not because it betrays the title of the show, That is true, but to hang one’s hat upon that point is the same logic that dictates that we name our dogs, “Spot,” and our cats “Kitty.” It is just not that critical.

Rather, the finale fails both because it leaves the protagonist unchanged, and because, it also leaves him looking faintly manipulative. The hero we are supposed to cheer for in the end has feet of clay.

First, he tells the children the story about their deceased mother - and leaves their mother out of it. In the show, the kids seem nonplussed by this, but it begs some questions. Is Ted - the man who knows that he is the hopeless romantic - so lacking in self-awareness that he does not realize that it was Robin all along who was the one? Alternatively, is Ted very much aware of his real yearnings and he is using this story to emotionally bribe his children into accepting that Robin is - and always was - the real love of his life?

If the former, then we have to accept that Ted never grew from where he started at season one. His marriage was option B, but really did not matter to who he was as a man and what his story is supposed to mean to his kids and the viewer. He was infatuated with the wrong person, and multiple relationships, one wife and two kids later, he is still the same man.

If the latter, then Ted is heartlessly manipulative. We have seen that he can be from time to time, but to see him act that way toward his own children brings it to a whole new and unpleasant level. It begs then the question of why anyone should care if he found the ONE. Even if he did, no man or woman of character would have much to learn from his experience.

Indeed, one would have to feel sorry for Robin, were it not for the fact that for most of the finale we find her skipping out on her friends and skulking around like Achilles in his tent. If Ted really is as manipulative as he might appear to be, the only consolation is that Robin may only get what she deserves.

(It also must be said that the easy way that the kids accept their father’s story - emphatically including their father’s exclusion of their mother from the story - with such ease is also disturbing. “Out with the old bat and in with the new,” seems to be the kid’s reaction. Ick! These kids may indeed have been raised by an emotionally manipulative father.)

Thus the finale, for all the promise of the show’s nine years, ended us up where we started. Those who say that the ending was realistic are confusing the fact of life’s vicissitudes with the nature of human psychology. In the real world, Ted’s marriage would as likely as not have ended in divorce if Robin was THE ONE. The kid’s reaction at their father excluding their mother from the story of their own mother would not have been so forgiving and easygoing - assuming, as we have no reason not to - that they loved their mother. Finally, to have Robin sitting in her house with her dogs ignores the very dynamism in her character that made her wrong for Ted.

So, in the end, the finale fails because it not only disappoints - and after all, the classic literary definition of a comedy is a story with a happy ending - but because it is giving us a conclusion that is, its pretensions notwithstanding, unrealistic. We are left with a protagonist whose journey could have ended on day one and been no different from what it was after nine years. It is true, as the saying goes, that a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. However, it still does not get you anywhere if all you are doing is walking in a circle.

I don’t think you couldn’t have it end with Robin and Ted getting together, but you needed to sell that Ted grew rather than going back to where he was. I didn’t get that, and other people who have watched more of the show didn’t get that.

Still, I am quite interested in counterarguments. You think Ted isn’t going backwards? You think the kids really would be all gung-ho about Robin? You have a third alternative to what Ted is doing in the story? I’m all ears. I’m still willing to be convinced that the finale really was good and not disappointing. My opinions, like everyone else’s, are often informed by those of others.

[Fair_Rarity]

@Linus_Van_Pelt

The cynic in me finds it hard to believe that they were still trying to decide on an ending only a couple weeks ago (and didn’t bother shooting any alternate scenes to accommodate it). Sounds like an attempt to save DVD sales. On the other hand, it’ll be nice for those fans who were pissed at the ending and are willing to spring for a version they might prefer.

It’ll be nice for the fans who will buy it, but from what I’ve read elsewhere, there are many people who just are done entirely. Some people are saying they can’t watch the reruns and earlier seasons. While I truly hated the last episode, I am enjoying the reruns to the same extent as this time last week, so it didn’t ruin the show entirely for me, unlike Dexter. Dexter made me so angry I haven’t watched a single second of it since, no matter how little else was on when a rerun was on. I think for those of us that are very angry about the ending, no amount of morbid curiosity is going to have us PAY these clowns for that wreck of a last season/episode.

When the dvd does come out and someone uploads it to youtube, I’m going to check it out. No good will come of it because if it’s terrible, it’s going to make me say “They really were smoking sandwiches the whole time” and if it’s good, then my head might explode.

[DSeid]

I also have not been a long time watcher; I’ve seen a scattering of shows over the past several weeks as my 12 year old daughter went through watching them multiple times as her binge show of choice (and smiling over the fact that she absolute did not get many of the jokes … after she started singing the Beaver Song because it was catchy I had to explain to her what the joke was and she immediately had to rewatch the episode now getting the joke. And I have no answer as to how beaver came to mean female genitalia. Looks like a beaver pelt? Really?) And I liked the ending, more or less.* Watching the show in bits and pieces it seemed the only ending that made sense.

C’mon, it was clear that The Mother was a MacGuffin. His story was all about the relationships of that group and his complicated and deep feelings for people within that group. His kids only stated what posters here have said: this story is not about Mother; it is about Ted needing love, needing a relationship, and that he has always loved Robyn. His kids know he loved Mother, deeply. They lived it. The kids are smart enough to know that if Dad wanted to tell the story about how he met their mother it would start with planning for Uncle Barney and Aunt Robyn’s wedding and the first band cancelling. They know that Dad is lonely; that he longs to be part of a couple; and that he has been not acting on that for six years. And that a Dad uninvolved is a Dad intrusive into their lives … that would be reality.

No Ted has not changed much. I do not see that as a fatal flaw. I do not see the show as being about “his journey.” It is about him explaining who he is and has always been. But again, I have seen no where near all of the episodes so defer to those who were regular fans.

*My quibbles were that the pacing was rushed and the complete uninvolvement/disappearance of the mother of Barney’s child. Child shown to him in a room where the mother is not and he gets complete custody? Sure, I can imagine a storyline that creates that but it was presented as an of course sort of thing. Very odd.

[qubed]

Robin is a childfree person. She says early on in the show that she doesn’t want children. She also happens to be barren, which causes significant emotional turmoil. This is not contradictory because loss aversion is an irrational thing. (I say this as a childfree person that also can’t get myself to get a vasectomy).

---

I think the best part of the finale was Lily’s and Robin’s conversation in the empty apartment, because it was just so damn real. Sitcoms characters tend to be very insular (as this article points out), but that’s just the nature of the sitcom format, and requires a little suspension of disbelief (heck, Robin’s only bridesmaids were Lily and Patrice!). Out of the 5 friends there were 3 breakups between them throughout the show, but somehow they manage to all stay close friends. That would be insanity in real life.

But since this is a finale, you can do away with that insularity, and what you have is Robin drifting away after the divorce. And parents drifting away while taking care of their children. Basically real life. This is why I hated the Friends finale so much. The show was gearing up for them all to move away (Rachel to France, Joey to Hollywood, Chandler/Monica to the 'burbs). Instead it had them tidily stick around together (ignoring the fact that Joey would soon be moving to LA in his spinoff).

[Sean_Factotum]

@well_he_s_back

or why she was mooning over Ted when she had already floated away from him on the beach

But that was Ted letting go of Robin so that he could watch her get married. Nothing in that little scene was Robin letting go of Ted - in fact, IIRC, she had been pretty adamant that Ted needed to ‘move on’ with his life.

[Justin_Bailey]

@DSeid

*My quibbles were that the pacing was rushed and the complete uninvolvement/disappearance of the mother of Barney’s child. Child shown to him in a room where the mother is not and he gets complete custody? Sure, I can imagine a storyline that creates that but it was presented as an of course sort of thing. Very odd.

We actually have no idea what the custody agreement between Barney and #31 is. It was never talked about.

[Drunky_Smurf]

@BigT

This is the last time I will respond to this nonsense instead of just reporting the hijack and/or jerkiness.

How is restating something you said. “I haven’t seen the show but for a couple of episodes.” being a jerk?

[twickster]

@BigT

I thought I was clear with my response to Fenris. I am discussing a TV show that I happen to like, not my personal foibles. If you have a problem with me, take it to the Pit, instead of shoehorning in things I’ve been accused of in the past that don’t even make sense in this context. (You really think you can “white knight” an opinion? Do you not know what the term means?) This thread is not about me. This is the last time I will respond to this nonsense instead of just reporting the hijack and/or jerkiness.

That was one response too many, BigT – if you think someone is hijacking or acting like a jerk, report the post and let the mods deal with it.

@Drunky_Smurf

How is restating something you said. “I haven’t seen the show but for a couple of episodes.” being a jerk?

And this is also unnecessary.

If people want to squabble with each other, take it to the Pit. Y’all are off-topic in this thread.

twickster, Cafe Society moderator

[DSeid]

@Justin_Bailey

We actually have no idea what the custody agreement between Barney and #31 is. It was never talked about.

On reflection I read some into how it was presented … still my discomfort remains - the total lack of any interaction with or comment about the mother of Barney’s child, her non-entity status other as number 31 in a series of consecutive one-night stands - is just weird. It bothered me.

[drewtwo99]

Just out of curiosity, now that it’s been a week for people to digest it, is there anyone here who HATE HATE HATED that finale at first but now they’ve come to appreciate it more? Or maybe you loved it and thought it was perfect at first, but came to see it as flawed?

After having talked about it with several people and other fans, I’ve come to agree that it wasn’t the absolute perfect finale I thought it was. I think it is disappointing that Ted came full circle a bit with Robin, I think the writers missed an opportunity to show a more clever way of getting them back together. I still think the final scene with the children was BRILLIANT and hillarious, and will forever be one of my most favorite unexpected moments in television.

As good as that scene was though, I definitely love the scene with Ted and Tracy at the train stop the most. I’ve been listening to Downtown Train a lot, the song they played during that scene, and it was a fantastic choice. It was a really sweet, emotionally powerful scene with almost perfect acting and writing. You could really feel the chemistry between the two and it was amazing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a better depiction of “love at first sight” in fiction (even though it wasn’t technically the first time they saw each other, it was the first time they interacted).

I don’t think that Tracy’s death cheapened or ruined the show in any way. I think it was just a way to show us all that there are many types of love, and many opportunities, and some are perfect and last forever until old age (Marshall and Lilly), and some are perfect but fleeting due to circumstances (Ted /Tracy), some are really great for a very short time and fizzle out quickly (Robin/Barney), and that there’s not just The One, but really that there is The One That’s Perfect For Right Now (Ted/Robin).

Really enjoyed the overall message of the show but I will admit there were some low notes in the finale.

[etv78]

If they had written an episode to flesh out the last 10 minutes, I MIGHT find it tolerable, but as presented, nope still loathe it.

[OneCentStamp]

@drewtwo99

Just out of curiosity, now that it’s been a week for people to digest it, is there anyone here who HATE HATE HATED that finale at first but now they’ve come to appreciate it more? Or maybe you loved it and thought it was perfect at first, but came to see it as flawed?

It isn’t going to end up ruining reruns for me. Still think they should have done one of two things, though:

1. Cut to music and credits right after the umbrella conversation. Boom. That. Is. How. I. Met. Your. Mother, kids.

– OR –

2. Sped things the hell up and had him meet the mom on the platform two hours of screen time ago. Then they could have devoted some actual time to the gradual drifting apart of the original quartet to not make it seem forced, they could have parlayed Cristina Milioti’s undeniable charm into making her into someone whose death actually made us feel something, and they could have given some kind of depth and texture (and make-sense-itude) to Barney’s single fatherhood.

IOW, I think everything after the platform meeting still feels rushed and tacked-on. Either kill it or flesh it out.

[Fair_Rarity]

It’s been a full week. I still hate it. HATE IT.

There is a really good article in last week’s Entertainment Weekly (the one with 24 on the cover) about series finales. They got a whole bunch of showrunners in it to talk about how hard it is to write a finale. I loved it. One of the really good points (by the Breaking Bad guy… the one who was just on Community) was you have to make it be like the rest of your episodes. If you’re funny, be funny. If you’re scary, be scary. (Paraphrasing, that is). So in that way, this one truly did suck because it was not funny. It did fit the whole last few seasons, but not the overall show. I think there was another point made by someone else about not sticking to something just because, and I think that was a major flaw here.

[well_he_s_back]

I still hate the ending, and yes, it pretty much ruined watching any reruns for me. Just tonight, flipping channels there was a rerun with a Barney/Robin in love storyline. think I’m gonna enjoy that? (as for why we didn’t hear about what happened with Barney and the baby - maybe cause Ted was telling the story & in the end it was only all about Ted.)
They should have stuck with being a comedy.
so yes. hate, hate, hate it.

[Fenris]

For me, the more time goes by, the less I like it.

1. The Barney/Robin breakup was just too damned fast – if they were going to go this route, they should have had them get married about 4 episodes before the end and then spread the “what happens to everyone after”/“Ted at the reception/train station” stuff out as well. Then spend 10, 15 minutes showing us drift apart. As it was, the whiplash from “Barney/Robin 4-evar!” for 4 seasons and then, literally about 15 minutes after the wedding “Oops. I guess not” was just too fast. I don’t like but can live with them breaking up. But it was handled poorly.

2. They spent way, way, way, way too many episodes telling and showing us that Robin was not The One and Barney and Robin WERE their Ones…and then to have Ted and Robin end up where they were about half-way through the first episode didn’t work for me. We saw two or three or four (depending on how you count it) “Robin is NOT!!! The One. At last I have finally realized it!” episodes this season alone. We had 3 or 4 “Barney proves his love once and for all” episodes

3. De-bitchify Robin. To me, she vanished from the gang’s life. My buddy who watched with me disagreed: he said she drifted apart, not vanished. Either way, show her point of view for a few minutes–show, don’t tell.

4. Show a little more of life with mom and mom dying/the aftermath. As it was, it was “Mom died, I’m gonna go boink Aunt Robin. 'k?” I don’t want hours of the death, but just a bit more of what happened after she died to make the mom dies/Robin boinking transition a bit slower.

5. if you have to kill off the mother (and I don’t think they should have.*) they should have given us a bit more Ted/Robin at the end. Maybe a date where they reignite (or try to reignite) the Robin/Ted chemistry and after the date, when we’re in love with Robin again, then do the Blue French Horn thing.

As it is, there’s too much whiplash feeling for me to enjoy the episode.

*They made a huge casting mistake with whatshername–Tracy–she had more chemistry with Ted than Robin+Victoria+Stella combined. (Zoe never had any chemistry with Ted. I mean, aside from the character being loathesome, the actress just didn’t…click…with the guy who played Ted–Hell–the crazy-assed lady.). If they really wanted to kill the mother off, they should have stuck with someone who had a, say, Stella level of chemistry–good, nice, pleasant, but not the crazy-ass over-the-top chemistry that they got.