No judgements about who did what. If you feel talking to Joe may mend the fences, then who cares if it should be you or your fiance.
Be the first to apologize. Tell him you’re sorry if anything you did made him feel excluded or like a servant, and that was not your intent.
Hopefully, he will apologize for acting like a brat and everybody can be happy again.
This is very good advice, StarsApart. And I’d like to apologize for scolding you.
Thanks, apology accepted. I don’t want to make enemies from one of my very first posts. I apologize, too, for being a little bit too trigger-happy in my replies. 
We are definitely not enemies, you needn’t worry about that. I commend you for trying to patch things up.
Please read my post. I assumed you were male (which was wrong to assume) and I said, in a joking and insulting matter, that you would find the Christian blonde haired blue eyed woman who finds sex, except in the instance that it produces children, to be repulsive and heretical. Also, please do not assume I’m a flamer who will run off when the arguement grows stale. I like practicing my typing! And this site is quite interesting! You’re right though. I’ll forget about the site in a week, but it won’t have anything to do with why you think I will. Shiny foil will captivate me instead.
I apologize for assuming you were male. I thought I had read something about your gender and it had turned out to be referring to Joe. I am sorry to hear you broke away from your family. I’m also glad to see you’re engaged in an interacial relationship. That’s great! We could turn that into an after school special-- “Hey kids! Let’s have some chocolate with that vanilla.” You’re a credit to humanity!However, I only made one reference to your supposed sexual repression I accused you of. It discredits my arguement, so I regret to have made it, no matter how much fun it was derived from. But, my arguement stands the same. Not kissing in front of other people is regression. Though, you sound fairly good looking with your brown eyes and lovely dark curly hair. Congratulations! I had you totally pinned as some omnioptent light force that spread wisdom throughout the universe.
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**StarsApart ** and **Friends ** of Sonic, you may think PDAs are OK. StarsApart even says so. However, that does not give you the right to decree that everyone should think they’re OK.
And it still doesn’t give you the right to say it’s never okay. Which is what you said. You weren’t stating personal opinion but rather stating it as a fact. “It’s never okay to not breathe.” “It’s never okay to kiss in front of others.” See what I mean? They match up well. The first one is an obvious fact; the second one was one you stated as a fact, but was not one.
This man is going to be your husband. Your problems are his problems, and he must at least offer to help, which gives you the choice of either accepting his assistance or telling him he should butt out. If he doesn’t realize this, if he’s trying to shirk his responsibility and put the burden of this situation entirely on your shoulders for no reason other than that he doesn’t want to deal with it, then I’m sorry, but he shouldn’t be getting married. This is a huge red flag for me.
I do think you should take the first step and apologize, but also this:
You need to quit being a wuss and step up to Joe as a strong woman. You’re probably still at the age where you think women should make nice and smooth things over if you can. That is such a myth.
Joe needs to know that while him and your BF and you can all get along and be great friends, YOU are going to be Joe’s wife, and that trumps friendship any day. You need to let Joe know that his behavior is unacceptable to you, even if your BF doesn’t (which he should) and you won’t tolerate it. It may make things more uncomfortable in the short run, but if he stays in your lives, it would be best to lay the foundation now. Face it- people treat you how you teach them to treat you, and if you roll over this time, expect a lot more harsh treatment from him in the future.
And I still think he’s gay.
Wow, from insults to compliments. :o I don’t know where to turn my head. I accept the apology, of course, and…
Very well. I will adjust my statement to say simply, Kissing in front of a single friend is not nice. I, however, will continue not drooling over my SO in public.
Not that I’m implying **StarsApart ** does any such thing. 
Ha! Don’t I wish.
I don’t think StarsApart has anything to apolpgize for. Any reasonable person would understand that an engaged couple would like to sit together. If it’s in the back seat of a car, so what?
If this hurts widdle-biddle Joe’s feelings, then Joe needs to GROW UP!
Do as you please, Stars, but I’d work to get this Joe loser out of the situation. Three IS a crowd, and he will continue to cause trouble as long as your SO alllows him to.
You daft woman! I was being snide and sarcastic! GET A SARCASM DETECTOR >_< Women and their periods. Mean and nice, nice and mean, CHOOSE ONE.
I don’t mean to be lambasting you but I’m just trying to be as honest as I can be with my limited knowledge of the situation.
Let me try to get two things straight.
Fiirst, I think you should reflect on your, and your fiancé’s, behavior and think about how others may find it rude. (like most people here think it’s rude) Then apologize.
I also feel that ‘Joe’ acted inappropriately. What he did was wrong and he owes you an apology and everyone involved needs to change their behavior.
Joe may feel that he can’t come right out and criticize you because he may hurt his friends feelings. He also doesn’t know you as well as his best friend and maybe he is afraid that he will hurt your feelings. Or maybe, like I said he is just bad at confronting people and he bottles things up till he explodes. All of these things are unknown to me and it seems like they are unknown to you as you don’t know your future husband’s best friend very well.
I also agree that you fiancé ‘backing out’ of his role as a peace maker is rather bad form on his part. He should at least help.
And let me add that I think the “Joe likes you” or “Joe is gay and likes your finance” is a load of garbage myself. Yes those theories would make the best plot lines on Melrose Place but this is reality Greg.
I recently saw a movie and one character tells another “You know, the right thing to do and the hard thing to do, are usually the same thing.”
So, what would be the hardest thing for you to do in this situation?
StarsApart, really. Listen to Cervsaise. He’s my husband. From your first post, your situation reminded me of a situation we went through. It wasn’t pretty, it’s been a bunch of years, and it’s still not really all okay. I’m surprised that he posted about it, but what he said is right.
Your husband-to-be needs to step in to this situation. It sounds to me very much like Joe is jealous of your position in BF’s life, and feels threatened and insecure. It’s not a position from which rational behavior and cool emotions are known to spring.
You also need to find a way to make peace with Joe, and it involves letting go of anger and resentment over past issues. Joe is going to have to let go of his anger and jealousy, whether that’s what he calls it or not, so you can be generous and get over the past issues as well. This reconciliation should happen after BF talks with Joe.
Respect the friendship that Joe and BF have, as I’m sure you do. Don’t try to put yourself above it when Joe is around. Save that for when you are alone with BF - that’s what couple time is for. I’m not saying that you have been doing it on purpose, but I think that’s how the Sherpa comment may have come across.
This is just my 2 cents, but I’ve been through a similar situation, and wish it had come out differently.
So which post were you being snide and sarcastic over?
Seriously, if you really think that saying “women and their periods” in any way at all elevates you on this board you are dead wrong.
I take no more notice of you.
I’m with Cervaise on this. Your fiance is intending to enter into a life partnership with you. Disavowing an interest in a problem that’s significant to you is not really compatible with that intent. And while you’re wise to avoid putting him in a position to choose between you and Joe, if push comes to shove, he should choose you over virtually anyone or anything.
As to the OP question, I suggest don’t even consider riding with someone who is liable to make off with vital possessions like keys, purse, and phone (I’m serious about this, and I think you need to be, as well). And I think someone needs to tell Joe (probably after expressing regret for being inconsiderate in the past) “I don’t give a flying fig whose car it is, you will NOT tell me who I can or cannot talk to.”
Several have said you need a heart, and perhaps that’s so, but what I see is that Joe needs a brain and fiance needs a spine.
Exactly. Sweetie, you need to grow a pair and let Joe know that you will not tolerate being treated like that. I agree you shouldn’t have been making him sit in the front alone, but damn. His reaction was extreme and over-the-top.
I hope you don’t buy in to the cultural myth that women are supposed to be the ones to make peace, smooth ruffled feathers, and make nicey-nice. You need to “have a talk” with Joe and let him know that his behavior is unacceptable to you and show him that he can’t away with acting so juvenile and mean. Face it- people will treat you exactly how you let them, and if you let this one slide, I guarantee he’ll take it further. Put your foot down.
I still can’t shake this nagging feeling that Joe’s got the hots for your man. There’s not many things that can make one act like an asshole like jealousy can.
I think I can understand why Joe exploded. I don’t excuse it, but I have a short fuse that I’ve got well under control these days, but there was a time when I did not.
Firstly driving a couple is annoying to many people. I know for me, it’s very annoying. I’d never allow a couple to sit in the back seat while the passenger seat was left unoccupied. That just would not happen, I’d have said the second both of you were going for the back seat, “Is this a limo? No, well then I’m not a chaffeur, one of you get up here.”
But I have no problems being blunt and expressing what I want and how I want it.
Most of the time when I’ve been in these situations I’ve actually been in a relationship, but nonetheless I get very annoyed at seeing others get lovey-dovey. Especially in an enclosed environment where I can do little to stop it. Now, you’ve said you don’t make out in the car, but has he ever been in a room, somewhere, anywhere, where you made out in front of him and he didn’t really have any viable way to get out of there?
I know in one thread people called me basically an ass because I’m not comfortable watching people make out. But I think that as a fellow human being my personal comfort about a semi-sexual situation should be taken into account. If I’m in an enclosed setting my friends shouldn’t make out in front of me since they know it makes me uncomfortable. Obviously there are situations where I can just “wal out” and ignore it, but I’ve been in many situations where I could not.
It’s possible Joe has been in these situations before, and it’s probably caused mounting resentment/annoyance. So even the smallest thing when it comes to being in the car is magnified, a kiss, holding hands, conversation centered away from him et cetera.
As it is though I think there is some innate problem with a 3 person group like this. The person who isn’t banging the rest of you is instantly the “minority.” Everything is going to be centered away from him, despite perhaps occasional exceptions. Basically in this situation I understand why Joe got pissed, as he’s probably suffering from mounting annoyance at feeling slighted.
It’s not the most rational reaction, but I can understand it. However I don’t think you and your fiance should have to do anything to fix his feelings. Tell him he’s your friend but also you should tell him you and your fiance aren’t going to take ridiculous measures to appease his irrational annoyance/anger/resentment.
The solution for Joe is to widen his circle of friends, get a SO or at least start dating. Should Joe “move apart” from your fiance? No, they are best friends. But he shouldn’t have his whole social life based so heavily on one other friend, it just isn’t healthy to be so dependant on someone. Not for him, not for your relationship, and not for your fiance.
You wanna know how to deal with this situation? Apologize to the man. Apologize for not bothering to think that he might not want to be the third wheel in his own car. Apologize for having conversations he wasn’t free to join right in front of him. Apologize for not bothering to think that he might have different standards from you and might not want to hear the “I love you” lipsmacking chorus. Apologize for hurting his feelings and/or making him uncomfortable. Ask him to forgive you for that, and then tell him you are still heartily pissed off about him driving off with your stuff. If you can both dig deep and find enough courage to say, “I was an asshole, and I’m sorry. Can you forgive me?” then you can probably put this mess behind you. If you can’t–well, this might get swept under the rug, but it won’t ever be truly resolved.
And unresolved incidents of assholishness are poison to a relationship. They slowly seep in and turn love and respect into resentment and contempt. A relationship can stand a certain amount of this, but eventually you reach a lethal dose. When that happens, everything you’ve shared together just…shrivels up and dies. It’s some rough shit, looking back on a relationship that died that way.
As for your “lambasting” I guess it’s really a point of view thing. You seem to see it as incumbent upon other people to tell you when you’re being a jerk. A lot of the rest of us see it as being incumbent upon you not to be a jerk in the first place. That said, everybody’s a jerk sometimes. It’s just the way human beings are. Having been a jerk doesn’t say anything about your character, really. But how you respond to having been a jerk says everything about your character.
Talking in the backseat does not exclude somebody else from your conversation. Joe sounds like the kind of guy who will take an apology as a validation of his behavior. StarsApart and her SO were inconsiderate, Joe was a flaming asshole. If he’s not big enough to apologize for what he did, he’s probably not worth her time. Look at the behaviors she’s listed! He doesn’t want them to talk in his car, he’s offended by jokes for no reason, he won’t let her explain herself… this is totally immature crap. I don’t think he wants to work out his issues with StarsApart, he wants to keep hating her. I agree with the others on one other thing: it was wrong of the SO to make up with Joe without including StarsApart.
Ditto ditto ditto and ditto. I missed that too , till reading this quote from Shakes.
To me, it is basic common courtesy. You simply do not leave anyone alone in the front seat unless you are in a paid taxi or limo. Friend, family, acquaintance, whatever. You guys did this over and over and over? C’mon. He’s being an asshat ( fabulous word ), but you guys should have taken turns being up front with him. That way, it’s not him and your Fiancee and you in the back seat alla time, but it’s his TWO FRIENDS, taking turns being up front there with him.
Not justification for what he did, but sometimes a bubble simmers in the pot a long time before it bursts. Sounds like the wedding gift is his way of extending an olive branch?
Depends on the topic of conversation. Exchanging "I love you"s is a conversation other people are generally not free to join. What’s he supposed to say, exactly? “Yeah, and I love both of you!” C’mon. (Though, frankly, if I was the third wheel during such flopsy-bunny stuff, I’d probably say exactly that, adding “so put a sock in it till we get home.”)