I agree.
Also, I’m mildly befuddled by the “act interested, but not too interested” line. I think I understand what you’re trying to say, but if I’m interested and she gets flakey or aloof on me or seems to generally not care, well, then I take my ball(s) and play somewhere else.
My b/f talks all the time about how you can tell a “date once or twice” girl from a “relationship” girl. He says there are immediate signs he looks for that will tell him how needy a girl will be, and that perceived “neediness” is the main issue.
For example, he looks at how the woman spends her money. He says it’ll scare him off immediately if she has large, expensive pocketbooks or fake blonde hair with highlights or her nails done every day. He says, what man wants to watch his money thrown down the tube because his girlfriend needs designer pocketbooks for no reason? To him, this is the sort of girl you bang a few times, but don’t get seriously involved with. He doesn’t want a girl who needs “things” to be happy, who he’ll always have to go out and buy things for to keep her satisfied and happy. He wants someone who will be happy because they’re in a loving relationship with him, not because he stopped off after work and bought her a piece of jewelry.
This is just one example, but it all boils down to how much upkeep the guy thinks the girl is going to require above and beyond him being loving to her. I think the term is, “high-maintenance”. You can be physically high-maintenance, like the above, or emotionally high-maintanance, which is probably what you were giving off with premature “relationship” talks.
That being said, I played it completely cool when I first met my guy. I wasn’t looking for a relationship at all. For a long time, I refused to sleep over, I wouldn’t let him buy me anything, we would just hang out. He’d say, do you want dinner? I’d say, no. I didn’t want to create an obligation with him spending money on me. One key, I think, is not to act like you’re entitled to his ANYTHING, to his affection, to his money, to the idea that he will change for you. To hear men say it, (good men, not desperate men) a sense of entitlement will make them run away pretty quickly, too.
Because it’s human nature to value something that’s hard to get more than something that’s right there for the taking.
Some people do enjoy the “Thrill of the Chase”. Some people look at it as being pathetic if a potential mate seems overly eager.
Yes, it would make things easeir if we could all just be open about things, but in reality (what really is the case, not what we wish were the case) I do think that it is helpful sometimes to rein in your feelings and play it cool.
This is one of the strangest comments I have ever read. One of my fairly close friends (female) is an OB/GYN, and she makes a metric crapload of money. She carries designer purses and has her nails done on a regular basis, and yet I’m fairly sure your boyfriend wouldn’t have to fear “[watching] his money thrown down the tube” with her.
That said, I absolutely agree with DianaG - you should be looking for someone you like, not looking to change someone you happened to meet into someone you like. Anything else is a turn off, not necessarily because of perceptions of neediness but just because it implies that, on a basic level, you’re not really interested in HIM - you’re interested in a boyfriend, and he happens to be present. It’s not really going to make a man feel wanted when you essentially say, “well, I have to be in love with someone, and even though I don’t like you you’re physically present, so would you mind changing who you are so I can like you more?”
I think misunderstanding comes from thinking of it in terms of different degrees of the same word. Let’s use different words, then.
It’s a good thing to to want to be with him because you find his personality fun and attractive.
It’s a bad thing to constantly try to validate yourself by seeking his approval. That’s all kinds of lame.
It’s also a bad thing to try to pry too deep into him. That’s creepy and invasive.
Actually, the fact that she’s a doctor and spends the money probably wouldn’t frighten the guy off.
What would frighten him off is if your friend’s receptionist had the same expensive tastes.
Let’s face it; there are a LOT of women out there whose primary goal in life is to be a well-off stay-at-home soccer mom type. They want nice stuff, but don’t want to work, etc… and pretty much the only ticket outside independent wealth or lottery winnings is to snare a guy who makes enough scratch for her to enjoy that lifestyle. Guys are understandably wary of women like that.
Great for them! That being said, I don’t want to date a guy who needs a new $1000 wallet every two months, either, or goes in for weekly beauty treatments. Blecch- it’s a strong sign of misplaced priorities. How can one ever imagine combining expenses with someone like that?
The base standard of living that someone needs to be happy is a strong measure of their character, IMHO. Are you happy spending a weekend in watching crappy movies, or do you need to be taken out every weekend? Is going to the diner for breakfast okay, or do you need to go to the trendy brunch places every sunday? Are you going to measure your happiness with who the guy is, or what he can do for you and your lifestyle? If you admit to being high-maintenance, and a lot of women tout it as something they’re proud of, well, that’s fine for them, but a number of men will find it to be an immediate turn-off, which is what this thread is all about.
But why? If you’re paying for it yourself, what’s the big deal? I usually get my nails done ever other week and have periodic waxing done all month. I just like to take care of my body. Yeah, I suppose I wouldn’t die without it, but I wouldn’t be happy.
I don’t think spending a lot of money on expensive things is what this thread is about. The thread is about reasons why the OP is having trouble making her relationships work. I don’t mean to be obnoxious about this, but this whole bias against “Ohmigod, spending money on nails and purses” is another example of something brought up in the thread where a Doper got her purse snatchd–the whole idea that spending money on “girly” things is frivolous and stupid.
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Nothing made me run away from someone faster than their being neurotic.
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When you criticize others, people will naturally tend to ascribe your criticisms back onto you. As a general rule, almost everyone could stand to be less critical of other people, and if it’s enough that you notice it you probably need to do it a lot less.
I’d also agree that the aloof bit doesn’t work, at least not on a guy who’s not a total loser. If a woman was aloof with me I generally gave up and moved on. I actually found out after the fact that a few of them really liked me and were playing hard to get. It doesn’t work (except, again, on losers.)
NOT being aloof and hard-to-get is not the same as being clingy and needy. You can show an enthusiastic interest in a guy without seeming like a nut.
It shows where your priorities lie. That’s all. Nice that you’re not socking away money for the future, but throwing it away on something like nails or waxing.
No, what this thread is about it how to be attractive to men for long-term relationships. Being frivolous with your money and men guessing that you’d want him to work for the rest of his life to float a materialistic lifestyle is something women don’t always think about, that may have an impact if they’re trying to attract certain types of men (and not, I assume, wall st. kids with too much money to burn and a keen desire for a status symbol on their arm).
Yeah, but I seriously doubt that you and your boyfriend are socking away every last dime on “the future.” You never buy crap for yourself just for the fun of it?
Anyway, if a guy thinks that just because I dress well and look polished that it’s his job to make me look that way, that’s his problem, not mine.
I have to agree. I spend my money the way I wish, and will continue to no matter whom I’m dating. He’s welcome to do the same. NightRabbit, why on earth would your friend assume that a woman who can clearly already afford nice things will be digging into *his * money?
ETA I guess I took a long time to type this!
NightRabbit to each his own, but anyone who gets pissy about how I spend my money isn’t anyone I’d want to date anyway. You’re welcome to call my habits “foolish”, as long as I’m welcome to call yours “stingy”.
…and boobies, you forget boobies? 
Okay, I assume both of you have good careers and plan to work for the rest of your life, regardless of marriage. Good for you! Feel free to buy whatever you want.
Haha if you saw all the post-college 20-somethings with 30k jobs who carry around expensive coach bags and spend half of their income on their hair, you understand that not everyone who wants to live a certain way can afford it on her own. In fact, I’d say that it’s the minority of women who can afford these accoutrements, not the majority.
Perhaps my view is obscured b/c I live in NYC.
How do you express your criticisms? Is it “I don’t like when you do X” or “We need to talk about X?”
Don’t do that. What a bummer. There’s a way of communicating a dislike without making a guy uncomfortable. You can sigh and look pensive, for instance. Or shriek in mock terror and burrow under the covers. Or say something sarcastic about how mature that was, what he did just there. Or ask him if howling in rage and battering the steering wheel with his fists makes the other cars go faster. Any of these is better than “we need to talk,” or a blunt demand for behavioral modification.
The beginning part of the relationship is supposed to be the fun part. If I’m not having fun, I’m moving on.
Thanks so much for the advice, guys, and the more brutal and upfront, the better. My eyes have really been opened by this thread. I think one of the reasons this is so hard for me was because I went through all of undergraduate with a boyfriend, basically, and so I don’t think I learned the strategies and rules as much.
I will also that by “aloof,” I don’t mean, never talk to him or return his phone calls. Be interested, but not too much . . . let him do the pursuing at the beginning.
Also, guys, this is a situation that happened to me a couple of months ago, but more as an academic question: Let’s say you meet a girl, become a bit interested, express your interest and she expresses mutual interest. Then let’s say things start going too fast for you, she starts acting clingy, and you pull away and tell her you just want to be friends. She agreeably replies that it was also going too fast for her, and that her neediness could be attributed to the fast pace as well. She says that she would be okay with just casually dating, but if you wanted to just be friends, that was also cool with her. You guys continue to hang out, she is friendly and chill and retains the same traits that attracted you in the beginning. Would you at all consider giving it another shot?
Or for most guys is it over once it’s over?
Also, as to the issue of girls appearing “high maintenance,” it’s unfair, but I could sort of understand how that would be a turn-off for men. I think because it may make men feel insecure, or like maybe they have to live up to some standard of hers. If she holds her own personal appearance to such high standards, would she do the same for all things in her life?
Gestalt
I’m going to step forward and defend NightRabbit and her boyfriend. I basically agree with what is being said here. If I find that a woman generally has very expensive tastes, it’s going to turn me off wanting to get seriously involved with her, even if I’m not going to be the one who’s expected to support her in the lifestyle to which she’s become accustomed. It’d just mean that she’s likely too different from me in terms of priorities, values, personal style, etc.
This speaks volumes on what the other parts are like. 
If I meet someone who is into Coach bags and $500 hairdos, my initial reaction is going to be that she’s a bit materialistic, but I’m willing to be proven wrong. But if I don’t know for sure when we’re several dates into the relationship, my bad for not finding out.
Not at all. If there is attraction, then the friendship can escalate.
Having said that, I was once in that very situation. The friendship was never just a friendship, but a display of pure desperation on her part, with a good measure of crazy thrown in. I had to shut her out hard, lest I came home to rabbit stew.