How to reassure a woman who feels ugly?

You know, the fault is quite probably mine for any misunderstanding. I just assumed that this was not an unheard of dilemma and not something that required a clinical diagnosis nor a warning against plastic surgery. Perhaps I’ve made it into some huge, life-altering drama that it is not. For being anything but clear, I apologize.

She’ll manage just fine. She has the skill, intelligence, and fortitude to refine her sense of self to overcome this dilemma, with or without my assistance. I shall still endeavour to make small compliments in hopes that it helps to move her along with haste.

And to be clear, my snotty attitude stems from the “advice” that Scarlett67 offered up. The first post amounted to, “gee, I’d hate to be around that person.” The advice from the second post, approximated: “Wow, that’s not normal. She should get help.” If you’ll check the OP, you’ll find that my request for advice was what can I do and what have others who have suffered this particular dilemma found useful in overcoming it. Read Scarlett67’s first two posts again. Seem helpful? Yeah, me neither. Sounded more like a pounce to me.

I get that this is IMHO. People get to offer their opinions, it’s what this forum is for. I’m all for that. I’m not telling anyone to get the hell out and don’t come back. Also doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy myself with those I perceive as going out of their way to be snots.

Just wanted to point out this sentence can apply to any woman, regardless of age. :wink:

I hope someone comes up with a good answer to this. I’ve made a lot of progress with a ton of other insecurities, but feeling attractive is definitely one of those things that still remains a mystery to me.

I have the feeling, though, that the onus of the solution lies upon my shoulders, not the shoulders of anyone else. That means that no amount of you crowing about how sexy she is will likely have an effect on how she feels. We have to do it ourselves. Just don’t know how.

I’ve written three replies to this. I deleted all of them.

**Standup **writes:

She’ll manage just fine. She has the skill, intelligence, and fortitude to refine her sense of self to overcome this dilemma, with or without my assistance. I shall still endeavour to make small compliments in hopes that it helps to move her along with haste.

This sounds like a case of a man being a problem solver when the woman wants to vent. Underlined mine: I know what you mean but ignore her timeline…it’s hers. Whatever time she needs to process it, that’s what she needs IMO.

It always amazes me, even though I’ve seen it time and time again. Young women are afraid that men just want sex with them because of their looks, for instance. Then they get older and don’t have the same physical appeal. Maybe that’s to be celebrated—NOW when a man is interested, it’s for other reasons, like the qualities she has inside. And the OP says she has them.

I always thought women were wiser, emotionally, than men. Men often want certain bits of a woman; women want someone to love and accept them as a whole person. Her bits may have changed, but the principle hasn’t—she just doesn’t have the upper hand she once did and that makes living up to the ideal more diffcult.

@olives: you might take some comfort in the fact that many (most? all?) men are, for lack of a better word, omnivores. Take me for instance (please!): sure, there are some hot young twenty-somethings and I’ll notice them. But there are attractive women in their 30s, 40s, 50s…even 60s in some cases. Skin color? Irrelevant. Sure I like them petite but that doesn’t mean tall women are out of the question. Etc. etc. etc. “Older” women become more established, know wtf they want, know how to work the equipment, etc. Every age has its potential and pitfalls.

Fair comments. It’s reasonable to say that I am prone to degrees of White Knight Syndrome. I’m significantly more competent in noticing and tempering it than when I was a younger man. I also want to be reassuring to my friend in a genuinely supportive fashion. I do readily acknowledge that I cannot “fix” her, nor do I wish to expend significant energy on constant ego-stroking. I don’t have the patience for that kind of relationship with anyone.

The concern about looks might be shorthand for a general realization that she’s getting older, heading toward forty, and thinking about what that represents. My best friend is a little older than me, and she started doing a lot of thinking about life when she hit her mid to late thirties and talking about all the things that would be cool to do in life that she was beginning to realize she’d never do.

It kind of perplexed me, so I’d just listen and offer that there were many good things she was doing with her current life, even if she wasn’t doing all those amazing and exciting sounding things. That never seemed to help, though, and I was at a loss for what to say. So I just listened while she talked about her dreams.

Then I reached my mid to late thirties and starting thinking about the same sorts of things. How there are so many things I want to do in life, and not enough life to do all of them. When you’re in your twenties, you’re ready to take on the the world and you have Big Plans. By the time you reach your late thirties, you realize that not everybody does Big Things, and most of those who do were well under way in their twenties. Yet here you are living an average life and getting older, and you never quite took over the universe the way you thought you would–life didn’t go according to plan.

There really isn’t anything anyone can do to fix this, so it’s good that you aren’t aiming to. My friend and I talked about it with each other and other close, trusted people, more because we were working our way in to accepting the realities of life. And that’s not to say that either I or my friend are unhappy with our lives, or emotionally unbalanced or in need of therapy or something. Just hitting the realization that you can’t do everything and taking stock of what our lives are, since they aren’t what either of us imagined they would be.

So I’m guessing your friend is simply doing that, and trying to come to terms with whatever it is she thought she’d do with her life by now that didn’t quite work out. Since it’s looks she’s talking about, I’m wondering if she’s feeling her biological clock ticking and realizing there’s not a lot of time left to have a baby if she wants one–and that if she’s not married, there’s only a certain amount of time left for finding a husband and getting down to business. But that might not be it–it could be something else entirely. She’s the only one who can tell you. You could try asking her if it’s just her looks or if it’s something more than that bothering her.

Regardless, there really isn’t a way to help her move through this more quickly. It’s just a transition she’s going through, and she’s talking to you about it because you care about her. Voicing the things you worry about to someone who cares is comforting and part of what helps you figure out how to change the things you can, and accept the things you can’t. So just be a friend and listen once in a while, and maybe share some of your own thoughts about getting older if you relate to any of what’s bothering her. I know my friend and I talk about that kind of stuff sometimes, simply because it feels better to know we aren’t alone in any of it. But mainly do all the other normal friend stuff so that the focus of the relationship is on doing all that friend stuff. In other words, live. Nothing cures all the regrets about what you will never do better than realizing there’s a hell of a lot of enjoyable stuff in whatever your reality is. And having friends is a big part of that.

You, madam, are nuts. I have met you and can say with confidence that you are gorgeous! I know feeling attractive must come from within but rest assured that this is just a case of your self-esteem having to catch up with what is already there.

I apologize if you mentioned this and I missed it, but is she in a relationship? It sounds to me like a woman in the midst of a dry spell.

I’m 38. A couple of years ago, I ended a ten year relationship, and was utterly convinced for a while that I was hopelessly unattractive and unlikely to ever have sex again. It was horrible.

But it didn’t last long, because I was very, *very *wrong.

If I’m right about this, what your friend needs is to get out there and learn that she IS attractive, in the only way that counts, by attracting people.

As for “looking forty”, I don’t know what that means. Forty looks like Halle Berry, and Salma Hayek, and Kylie Minogue, and Monica Bellucci. That doesn’t exactly suck IMO.

I know the feeling re: White Knight Syndrome.

If, one day, you say to her “Wow, your hair looks terrific!” she probably isn’t going to do anything but politely smile.

If, on the same day, a complete stranger says to her, “Wow, your hair looks terrific!” it will probably make her day

Point being, she already knows your opinion and reiterating it won’t get the reaction you’d hope for. Less (from you) is more, I think.

I’d take a different tack. Don’t tell her she shouldn’t feel that way or try to problem solve. Just empathize and reflect what you hear her saying so she knows you’re listening.

Right direction but wrong solution, in my opinion. Do exactly this if you want to keep hearing this same gripe from her. If you, as you say, don’t want to expend energy on ego-stroking then do this - next time she starts up you slap down the very notion of her not being attractive. Say that it is ridiculous and she’s a gorgeous person, and she knows you feel that way, so if all she wants to do is complain, or flat out bullshit, to someone that she’s ugly then she’s coming to the wrong guy. Then don’t entertain any further discussion unless she’s bringing something new to the table. Seems cold but it will be far more effective than any sugar loaded fawning that you may do otherwise. You’ve probably over saturated the market with your compliments and whatever you dish now don’t mean jack. Continuing to feed her compliments will likely end with you getting caught up in a Pavlovian cycle, and at worst may indulge any negative self-image she actually does have going. Basically, the concept that she is ugly is absurd and you’re not going to dignify it by entertaining any discussion implying otherwise. One possibility - if she has built up a majority of her self-image on being eye candy then she’s going to have to let that pillar crumble a little bit to rebuild her identity; her saying out loud that she’s not good looking could merely be her stating out loud what’s in the back of her mind, convincing herself that she is a different person then she was at 25 and she needs to adopt a different outlook as a result. In that case, she knows what she needs to do and though she’s likely undergoing that process now, she’s just prodding herself in that direction and you’re being used as the opportunity for her to talk to herself.

Also, next time you see someone possibly flirting with her or checking her out - point it out to her in a joking manner. Don’t dwell on it like it was a big deal, don’t make so light of it that it seems insincere; just make note of it in a funny and matter of fact way then go about what you were doing. Go ahead and do it even if you’re not entirely sure they really were sizing her up.

I will throw a question out there that you don’t necessarily have to answer: Why have you devoted so much time to her self-esteem?

This is wisdom. Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.

IME sometimes the reason people keep complaining ad nauseum about the same thing is that they don’t think/feel they’ve been “heard.” So periodically they try “again” to be heard, with the same person who “wasn’t listening” to them last week.

It’s common to brush off comments from others, pooh-pooh their feelings, and so on. Ultimately the OP has no answers for her…nobody does, really. There are logical reasons to feel that way and logical reasons not to feel that way. But it has nothing to do with logic, I think. But if the OP really gives her his full attention and she feels like he has really heard, her complaining to him should fizzle.

My ex had a great body in my opinion especially considering the fact that she had three kids. 5’6" 120 lbs. What the hell is not to like? She had pale skin but she looked great in shorts or even a bikini.
When we went to Sanibel Island in Florida she noticed on the beach next to our Condo that most women looked like 50 something grannies.
I guess that gave her confidence to walk out to the beach in a bikini. To this day I still don’t get it.
Even though our marriage didn’t last her body was fantastic. Oh well.

Tell her to rent* When Harry Met Sally*. Great scene: Meg Ryan calls Billy Crystal because her (now ex) longtime boyfriend is now getting married to someone else. She is sobbing and saying she’s 40. He looks puzzled and say, “you’re not 40!”, but she says, “so? It’s out there!”
IOW, she may be feeling that she is not where she wanted to be (even if she didn’t realize it consciously) at this point in her life. The only one to solve that is her. You can talk until you’re blue, but you’re never going to get her to believe that she is gorgeous. I’d find other things to say about her (heck, if you continue to talk about how beautiful she is, she might get the wrong idea about you!) that take into account her skills and personality traits that appeal. Inside, she may well still feel like that 20 something.

A lot of women (probably not on the Dope, so I don’t really want to hear how all the women here never, ever based their self esteem on their looks and always went for substance over looks in the men in their lives etc) start to feel overlooked and ignored in their mid 30s–because men DO overlook them. It’s happened to me (I’m now 46 and used to it). It is especially true when I’m out with my daughter (we look a bit alike; she’s 19). All eyes are on her, none on me. The first time that happened, it hurt. Now I find it amusing. But I’d kill for a man (an attractive older man) to compliment me in passing or similar. Just because she’s older doesn’t mean she no longer needs that. Sadly, compliments from friends and loved ones don’t seem to “count”–that is not her fault, but it does make things problematic.

I am not looking forward to my 60s when I become invisible to all. Which is not to say I would welcome the attention from men that I got when I was 20+, but it’d be nice to know that the world hasn’t turned its back on you.

Maybe you’re right, but if he ain’t hearing her correctly then he isn’t going to relay the context correctly, and in that case the whole thread is moot. If he is hearing her correctly, as he posited, then I doubt giving her his full attention will result in anything other then what has already gone down. I guess he could keep listening to it until she wears herself out, but what’s the point of that? Calling to her attention that she’s coming down on herself for no reason will hopefully be a catalyst to her getting her head right, and if nothing else Standup Karmic doesn’t have to keep parroting back the same things over and over. If she felt he wasn’t listening to her then she needs to come with that rather than start in with the complaints about not getting checked out again. On the other hand, if she needs to hear an echo of what she just said to be convinced someone is “hearing” her then she should go get a tape recorder.

Don’t get it twisted if you’re heading down that path. There’s a big difference between indulging in someone’s pity party/feeding their ego and shitting on someone’s feelings. If he was concerned that his friend was suicidal, depressed, had body dysmorphia, or this was a one time thing completely out of the blue then my advice would be different. I certainly didn’t get that impression, and if that is indeed the case then please discard my advice, but I was never telling him to pooh-pooh her feelings.

I think your suggestion sounds great in theory, I was just offering up an alternative that may be applicable in this case. Take into account Standup Karmic’s history of white knighting, his romantic past with this woman, and the fact that she is coming to him with this, and I just think that it’s best for all parties involved if he says with finality that she’s good looking and then puts an end to the trifling cycle.

Is she saying she feels ugly, or are you extrapolating that from her saying that she feels like she looks 40? Either way, the implication that 40=ugly is insulting to say the least.

I personally don’t care to look 40, because I’m 32 and don’t care to look almost a decade older than I am. My hair has a serious case of premature graying, and in its natural state I do indeed look 40. It doesn’t make me unattractive, though. I look just as good as a 40 year old as I do as a 30 year old (which is to say utterly average.)

BTW, does she look older than she is? Sometimes you realize that you look older than you are but the fix isn’t as obvious as it is for me. It can be frustrating and make you whiny.

The OP would have to let us know. His hearing may be 20/20 but if her perception is that he’s dismissive, well…you know.

Yup, stiff dicks don’t lie! :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m also onboard with Brandon, just don’t give any house room to the whole whiny “I’m so uuuuuugly, I’m oooooold” thing. Tell her once, point blank, that she’s fulla shit, that you’d fuck her blue to prove she’s fulla shit if you had that kind of relationship still, but that since you don’t you don’t approve of people talking shit about your friends like that and it’s gonna cease.

THEN set her up with the horny teenager! snerk

Oh lord, when will I understand women? I already know the answer ladies. I’m just asking for hints.