I am gonna be on SPRINGER!!!

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Ok, not really, but I could be! I have an amazing tale to share:

My kids’ fave sitter (I will call her Dolly)has some problems. She is peirced, and tough looking (she shaved her head bald to show off the scars), she fights, and is always on probation for something. She is 15 BTW. Well, I still get her to sit for me, because the kids like her, and more than that, I wanted her to feel that she had some value, that she was special… I dont think she has had enough of that in her life.

Over the months, she has shared some of her life with me:
Her father molested her and got off with probation,
she has trouble at home,
she is on some type of probation and goes back to court on Wednesday.
she gets kicked out of school alot,
she was in an accident as a child and had a head injury…

I havnt seen her much for a couple of months, and then friday, I called her to sit. Her Mom said she wasnt living there anymore. She had split for a freinds place. I called her there and she sat for me.

Here is her news…

She is pregnant, the father is in jail, (he is 17) and they PLANNED to get pregnant. She then told me she has a 3 yr old who lives with his father (who is in his 30’s - sick!) She wants to keep the baby. She left home because her brother was beating her, hitting her stomach she told me.(she also told me she walked in on her brother sexually assaulting the dog)
She was going to live with her friend, have the baby, be home schooled and live happily ever after (this was friday)

Sunday night she shows up in tears at my door, nowhere to go - she got kicked out. Something about her brother told her friends mom that she stole chips off the chip truck (!?!).

So I let her stay - what else could I do?
We had talked alot on Friday about how she needed to get her life together for the baby in the next 8 months, that she has to stay out of trouble, not drink, quit smoking, no dope, etc. I told her she could come to me if she needed to.

So Sunday night comes, she is at my house, I call her mom: “Dolly knows that she cant come home.”

She wont let her 15 year old pregnant daughter back home???

If I hadnt spoken to the woman myself, I would not have beleived it.
Holly lies alot too, but some of this has to be true, I have seen it, or have heard from other sources.

It gets better:

She was dared to get a phone mnumber from a stranger at a hockey game - so she got the # of the team mascot, and she talks to him for hours every night. phone sex basically. He is in his late 20’s, MARRIED and she participates in it too!!!

This manson family couple wants her AND the baby to go live with them. I tried really hard to explain to her that this was the most twisted and sick situation , but to little avail. She hasnt even met these people, (except him in a mascot suit once)

So, Monday morning, I take her to see the social workers, she says she will go into foster care… I buy her a coffee, and drop her off, with her bags. Strangely releived to be out of the whole mess, I start work.
Not an hour later she is here, needs the housekey - she forgot her lip stud… I tried to put her off to tomorrow, but she said she was going out my way anyway, she needed it or the hole would grow over - see where this is heading???
I gave her a few dollars for the bus, its cold, and I didnt want her to have to walk all the way…

Angie shows up (and I am freaking) so we picked her up at the bus stop - I really didnt want her to have my house key all day - and we went to my place. At first, I let her run in, but thought better of it and went in too. When I walked in she was fumbling with a zip lock bag I keep teds lunch money in - it was bulldog clipped to a fridge magnet. She said she had knocked it off.

I said there was a 5 dollar bill missing, did she see where it went? I even left the room to give her time to put it back. She didnt.

Now she claims she will be back tonight to pay me back the $5 she ‘lost’.We offered to wait in the car while she went in to her monthers to get the rest of her personal things, she declined. She is no doubt tossing the house for something of value.

I went back to owrk, a little sadder, a lot wiser, more cynical than ever. I called her social worker and spilled everything, the pregnancy, the petty theft, all of it.

I really thought I could help this kid. Pompous and arrogant as I am. I thought that ME beleiving in HER would make a difference. My brother (who is an elitist snob) calls people like Dolly ‘garbage people’. They are worthless, unproductive , pathetic throw aways that are never any good.

I didnt agree with him. The woman at the daycare told me to forget about them, that the baby wasnt my responsibility- I replied: Isnt it? Isnt the baby everyones responsibility? If Frankie was coming in to daycare with bruises, wouldnt you report me? She admitted I had a point.
My tax dollars will have to pay for the care of this kid, and her kid.

I tried to help her, I gave her a place to stay, fed her… and she stole from me.

Last night before I turned in, she said to me : “thanks for letting me stay Kelli” I told her sternly: “Dont make me regret it, get your self straightened out”.

Well, I DO regret it. I regret ever getting her to sit for me, I regret trying to talk to her, trying to steer her in the right direction.

Her baby is gonna end up just like her, homeless, messed up…

Maybe my brother was right, some people cant be helped, they are garbage people who will never be anything more than a charity case.

Why cant I stop thinking about that baby?
I must have told my boys 20 times this morning that I love them - I really hope I never have a kid like this one. :frowning:

2

And you let this drug taking, phone sexing, possibly brain damaged, kicked-out-of school girl babysit your children? Because they “like” her?

Shame on you.

3

I thought long and hard about letting her sit…

When I met her, she was in school living at home not in much troubel, and if I excluded avery drinking/rec drug user from contact with my kids, well… they would have to live on a mountain. She never came over to my place under the influence of anything.

I talked to the kids about her, she never raises her voice to them, spends the whole evening playing nintendo with them, AND they are 9 and 5, not like she is gonna have to do anything more than evacuate in case of a fire. She likes them, she plays with them, they like her. It was enough.

Lots of Juvenile delinquints get along good with younger children - kids dont ask anything of them, they love them without conditions…Any sitter you leave your kids with could be a bad one, I felt safer knowing that this one was upfront about her shortcomings. She knew where I stood, and I felt comfortable leaving them with her. - BUT

I am not going to anymore. She is obviously desperate, to steal from me, and the whole hockey guy phone sex thing just came up when I got home friday, I havnt asked her to sit since, and I wont - things in her life are spiraling out of control, and I wont be sucked down with her.

You are right to question the wisdom of letting her sit. NOW I wish I never had, but months ago, I was ok with it.

4

Unfortunately I find myself in your brothers place many times.

I have volunteered hundreds of times since my early teens at various homeless shelters and food missions, and I have helped build two orphanages in Mexico. The recurring theme with each and every experience would be someone trying to screw me out of something of value…

In Mexico it was much more basic…but the precedent was the same…someone willing to say anything, lie, and cheat to get what they want. I’ve tried to help many cases such as yours…but I’ve been burned every time. I’ve thought about joining the Big Brother program…but my cynicism has kept me from doing so.

I just don’t have it in me to deal with this shit…I feel for you that you got burned as well. It hurts, but in time you’ll learn to just shake your head and chalk it up to life experience.

I still help out with these type of people…but I refuse to let myself get involved personally ever again. When they screw you, it hurts, and you feel cheated…thats something I can do without.

-SS

5

Yeah… I think I have a lot in common with your brother. I don’t think I’m elitist. But you try and try to help people, and they still don’t get it. Still steal. Still cheat. Argghhh…!! it’s frustrating. I’ll never stop trying. I’ll never stop volunteering my time, but I can’t help but share your brother’s sentiment in the back of my mind.

6

About the only thing I can offer is the person has to want to change, really. I recall a story of a business associate of my Dad’s. His story was that this guy had come up to him at the grocery store, and given him the sad story about needing bus fare to get back home. So, as the story goes, the guy took him to the station, and told the cashier to get him a ticket for whereever it was, nonrefunable. The other guy cussed him out and stomped off.

This other guy was just hitting him up for money. Ironically I ran into this same con artist a week later, and simply told him “Yeah, and you’ll cash it back in as soon as I’m out of the building. I’m not an idiot.” He got mad, but couldn’t do anything, as I outmassed him by quite a bit.

I guess my moral is, we all have situations where we lose our faith in mankind. I hate that there will be another kid growning up in that eviroment, but what can we do about it?

Oh well, live and learn.

7

You know, I posted that, and I’m sitting here thinking, “I did not say all that I wanted about that.”

I volunteer alot of my time. I’m a big brother during the summer. (It’s not really Big Brother, but it’s a local orginization that does basically the same thing for kids when their parent has to work and they’re not in school) I work at camps, our soup kitchen, our mental hospital, all kinds of things.

I’m not trying to toot my horn here. These things make me feel good, and I don’t need any praise or thanks. One smile is enough thanks for a whole year.

However, I meet these kids. Kids mind you. Just 13, 14, 15 years old. They’ve been in knife fights, they’ve been beaten, they’ve been shot. It’s not a happy situation. I try to do the only thing I can, help them with what they need and try to set a good example. I just see it getting nothing but worse. And I meet their parent (parents in rare cases), and I see what these kids are gonna grow up to be. I see it in them. And the only thing I can term them is that they are the garbage of society. (The parents that is.) Constantly cheating, constantly stealing, not caring about anyone or anything but themselves. And there’s nothing I can do about it. It’s just so frustrating. And the kids pick it up 'cause that’s all they have to go home to. If you can call it a home.

The only thing, besides the feeling that I’m doing something right, that I get out of it, is that every now and then, I truly get through to a kid. I help them understand what they’re doing. I get through and I get that smile. That knowing, that comprehending smile. I love that. I just wish I could get through to all of them, but, I’m just one man, and a not, by any stretch, a great one at that.

I owe the fact of where I am to my family. They brought me up right, if a little harshly, they taught me the difference, and I picked it up. What did I get that these kids didn’t? I just wish I had an answer to that question.

8

Parents who knew the difference? That’s the only thing I can think of. Doesn’t matter about money or anything else, seems to be enviroment. My parents did tend to ride me hard in my younger days, and the older I got, the easier things got. I learned the hard way sometimes, others I listened.

It seems to be harder for those kids who grow up in a crappy situation like that. They have to fight everything they live with.

9

Kelli, I can understand your feelings, and no, I don’t think badly about your letting her sit (I would have probably too - you checked her out and she was good with them - cool - and you gave her a chance - something a lot of kids don’t have) - I don’t know you personally, but I DO know you through posts and for over a year, I’ve seen just how much you love your children, and know you would NEVER EVER put them in a position that would hurt them. In fact, I remember one of the first posts I ever read at this board - it was “Frankie’s” (hope I got the name right) birthday and “shitboy” (as you called him) wasn’t coming through. I could feel how much pain you were in - my son was in a very very similar situation. I kinda felt you were like a cyber-sister at that point. Still do! I’m babbling. I’ll wrap this up.

But on to this girl. I’ve been there, done that. Know friends who have been there, done that. You tried, Kelli, you tried. And now, it hurts to know it isn’t going to help her - NOW. BUT - you cared, and I remember when I was in my downward spiral - and finally decided to pick it up, suck it up and grow up and I knew who I could turn to. She may come back to you one day Kelli, you know as well as I do how powerful giving birth can be (and sickness or prison - depends on her personal “bottom”) - she may have an epiphany and need you again. But you’ll know if she’s sincere. You aren’t enabling her now, and that’s the best thing you could do. But things may change - I’ll keep you in my thoughts. And when I turned around, I knew who I could go to. She will too.

And give the kids a hug from me! :smiley:

{{{{{Kelli}}}}}

10

This has got to be one of the most devastating things that a parent can do to a child, and to find severe behavioral problems in conjunction is not a surprise at all.

Kelli - you probably helped as much as any person can; however she has profound problems that you may never understand. That she stole from you probably indicates how well you treated her. I realize that sounds contradictory, but people who are abused by their parents have a hard time handling a non-abusive relationship with other people. They will often sabotage a relationship where they are being treated well, because they can’t accept that someone is treating them well. It’s my personal opinion that we need to believe that our parents love us no matter what they do to us - when a person’s parents behave in a radically non-loving manner then receiving supportive, non-abusive treatment from another forces that person to deal with his or her parents non-loving behavior. And it’s easier to get someone to hate us than to deal with such a fundamental dilemna.

11

I am in total and complete agreement, Zyada. kellibelli – I know you want to help her, but she has some profound problems that you can do nothing about. This girl needs some very serious therapy.

If you are worried about the baby, you can call Child Protective Services (since she herself is still a minor as well). In the end they can take the baby away and put it into foster care… not much of a solution but an option considering the very bad situation.

I know you care, kellibelli – but do not get more involved, please! Your first priority is to raising your OWN children, not trying to “fix” someone else’s. Our natural maternal instincts scream out to help, but I’m not sure there’s much you can do here to actually “help.” She’s bound to end up using you, and you’ll end up hurting yourself and your treasured children.

12

That story makes my brain hurt, kells… rubs temple

I found out really quickly that I am actually in the minority. My parents lived together until my mom died after 30 years of marriage. I was not sexually molested. I ws not beaten. I was picked on in Junior High School badly, but by High School I was already beginning to overcome that and become “me.”

When I was going through my “ho period” after I separated from my wife, I was meeting people online. I was doing so, ostensibly, to fuck them. But I cannot do that. No. I have to be their friend too and talk to them and stuff.

Every person I met online had a story of some kind. Every single person. There’s the girl who was raped and left for dead and is now married to an abusive guy. There’s the other girl who I actually met in person, and as we were making out, she broke into tears about the guy who is stalking her who is a cop (we never consumated; we talked about everything including her fucked-up childhood). There is the woman who got married to a guy who “made” her have threesomes.

Heck - Even now at my job, there is a programmer who wants to fuck me. She knows I am engaged. She also tells me all about her escapades with other guys. Why? Because she has a kid with health problems, the kids father was an asshole, and she is “escaping” her problems with alcohol and sex.

Here at my office there is a strict Christian, who chooses to be devoit because of her horrible relationship with parents she wants to love.

Even Drain Bead has a past - the difference with her is that she has managed to overcome them before I ever got in the picture for the most part.

I never expected when I was being beat up in Junior High that I was gonna be more well-adjusted and deal with less traume - self-inflicted or otherwise - compared to those around me…

I dunno. Sometimes I think if you listen really carefully, you can hear Nero rosining up his bow… :frowning:

Yer pal,
Satan

*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Six months, two weeks, 14 hours, 35 minutes and 31 seconds.
7904 cigarettes not smoked, saving $988.04.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 3 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 40 minutes.

I slept with a REPUBLICAN moderator!*

13

My baby sitter stole my pocket money. I liked her anyways.
She was kind of cool cause she didnt like rules. She would wake me in the middle of the night and we would take a walk through the hamlet in my night gown :slight_smile:

I turned out well I think :slight_smile: I dont steal, hardly drink and dope is not all that bad, is it? :wink:
I think it was great what you did.
The baby will not have an easy childhood, but with a little luck the small one will be able to get through life without too many scars.

b dodgy

14

Kelli,

Don’t feel bad for having tried to help. This girl is profoundly f***ed up from what has been done to her her whole life. As has been said, she can’t help sabotaging the relationship because she has such a negative self image that she doesn’t know how to handle someone being nice to her.

I definitely wouldn’t recommend taking her into your home again, since she has shown herself to be untrustworthy, but do at least consider being available as a sympathetic ear and a positive role model. You definitely have to establish some very clear and strong boundaries if you do continue to have a relationship with her. But don’t give up on her just yet. It took a lot of years to make her the way she is, and it’ll take a lot more to undo even part of that.

You have to decide whether you have it in you to continue to care–everyone has a different capacity for giving, and only you know how much yours is. You definitely deserve praise for having done as much as you have, so if you decide that you can’t do any more you still can feel good about what you have done. Even if the results aren’t immediately noticeable, there is a good chance that you did have an effect on her, even if only a small one.

15

Some of you talked about the “I just need the fare” beggars…

I hate that. If somebody is honest and tells me he/she needs the money for drugs and or alcohol that is okay. I use a lot of change for that purpose.
Many ppl say that this is wrong - but I think they really need drugs and alcohol. How else should anybody be able to survive a life on the street?

Oh man… I ll have to tell you about the coolest homeless person I ever got to know in London…

it is sad too cause everybody could see he was manic-depressive… and obviously nobody cared to pay for meds for him :frowning: He was at about my age…
I ll make a thread on this I think… later…

too much ramblings…
b dodgy

16

It’s a sad fact that most victimizers don’t just appear; virtually all of them were victims of some kind of abuse themselves. An even sadder fact is that most victims go on to become victimizers. It’s an ongoing chain of tragedy and pain and it’s very difficult to break.

Kelli, you did all you could. You offered this girl trust, responsibility, and material help. But unfortunately what help you could offer couldn’t outweigh the suffering she has endured. Don’t feel the effort was wasted however; there is still a chance that “Dolly” will turn her life around and, if she is able to, part of that will be due to the memories of what you did for her.

17

If you feel that you would be a good Big Brother, please join!

My 9 year old son does not see his dad. It breaks my heart everytime he says that he wants a dad. He looks at men I date as being a potential daddy, so I am careful to keep them at an arms distance from him. It is really rough at times.

A couple of years ago I signed him up with Big Brothers. They found Big Brother that couldn’t have been a more perfect match. He is a 20 year old airman, loves sports, and even looks so much like my son that people are constantly making comments such as “Boy, you can tell you too are related!”

They spend a lot of time together doing things they both love. They play football, basketball, and baseball together. They go to Utah Jazz and Utah Griz games or get together to watch them on TV. A few weeks ago they went to one of those simulated rock climbing things. They talk about all kinds of things from girls to grades. Whenever my son needs a “dad” for a school activity or scouts, Marc is always there for him.

Last Christmas Marc’s parents and his sister flew out to visit. The first stop from the airport was my house to meet my son (and deliver a huge stack of presents). I knew that my son was special to Marc, but I never realized how much until I talked with his family. The next two weeks were filled with movies and dinners and lots of pictures. Marc’s family has accepted my son as one of theirs. He now has another set of grandparents like my older kids. I can see where he gets his compassion and family values. His family is wonderful.

In the beginning I was a little worried that Marc would grow bored hanging our with a little kid once he started to make more friends here in Utah. He had just enlisted in the Air Force and was sent far from home and his friends. However, I never had anything to worry about. He takes Alex to hang out with “the guys”. A year ago he met a great girl, but he still includes Alex in a lot of things. The two of them take her little brothers and my son all the time.

Marc has been the best thing to every happen to my son (except for having me as a mom :p). If you are considering joining and feel that you have it in you to really be there for a little boy, pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease do it!

18

Thanks everyone, your thoughts have made this easier, I had a feeling if I shared the burden you guys would come through.

This is so hard. I really want to help her, but I dont have the skills…its like watching a drowning, and not being able to swim - if I jump in, she will drown us both.

I worry now about tonight, and tomorrow, she will eventually show up at my door. I cant let her stay with me, I just cant. Not after all this. BUT I now realize what has happend to everyone else who has stopped ‘helping’ her… she tells terrible lies about them to anyone who will listen, lies that will help con someone else into caring about her.

I shudder what to think she will tell people about me. Will she say I hit her? (god forbid) tried to DO something to her???
What if she says stuff about the boys? that I hurt them??
Its making me sick to think about it!

What have I done? I never should have let her stay over. But if I hadnt… well, I cant undo it now.

My head is spinning.

Thanks again guys for the support, and the comisiration. This grown up stuff is hard.

19

**Kelli ** -
maybe you know I work with convicts? (20+ years). Many, many stories, just like you’ve described.

One thing I want you to know - you’ve probably already helped this young lady. Second thing is you’ll probably never know how and just how much.

don’t berate youself for acting out of kindness. You did good.
Your children saw you make an attempt at helping a fellow human being. How can that be a bad thing?

Yes, protect yourself now (don’t let her stay there in the future kind of thing, might not be a bad idea to change the locks anyhow???)

my best to you.

20

Kelli, you’ve done a wonderful thing for her. Even if you can’t do anything else, you’ve given her a glimpse into what a normal, loving mother-child relationship looks like. Reaching out to people invariably means leaving yourself vulnerable.

If she does turn up at your door again, and you want to help her, you can set limits. You don’t have to help her on her own terms. Call a social worker, take her to an emergency shelter, explain to her that she has to regain your trust in order for you to let her be in your house unsupervised. If you don’t have the energy for a relationship with her, make sure you don’t let her think you’re going to do more than you’re able.

As for writing “people like that” off, I really hate that attitude. People are never “garbage.” No matter how lousy they’re being, they’re still people. You don’t have to condone their behavior to have compassion and try to have some hope of their improving. If this child, at 15, is garbage, what will her baby be? Is he garbage as soon as he’s born, or does he have to attain some sort of consciousness before we dismiss him as a lost cause? Even if the majority of people who are being like this won’t or can’t be helped, if we can reach even one, it’s worth the effort.