Seems to me that you’ve reacted correctly, as a good parent. You’ve sat him down, explained things, and set out a plan for redemption.
What remains is seeing if he sticks to the plan. If he does then great. If he doesn’t then I suggest considering the more extreme of the advice given.
She?
Well, obviously I don’t remember the thread perfectly, since I remember the employee as a gay man.
In any case, you got taken advantage of and you stopped being the gravy train. Now you’re saying that you’ve never been taken advantage of.
It’s not my goal to play “pick out the discrepancies!” But I think you’re kinda prone to denial about stuff like this. And maybe you’re something of a sucker.
I’m one too, so don’t think I’m judging you over harshly.
Sorry, your son is your financial advisor? No? Then he is your accountant? No again, then what the fuck are you trying to accomplish here? Adding to what Brain Wreck said, if you told him you made only $40K (and you probably make more than that) a year being 19 he probably thinks you are rich beyond belief. And frankly I don’t care if you live in a solid gold house and shit diamonds - stealing is just as wrong from people who can afford it as those who can’t.
Letting him stay in your house and having this kind of relationship is a bad thing. You need some distance and he needs to make a good gesture that would allow you to forgive him. Something like, oh say, PAYING BACK WHAT HE FUCKING STOLE!
You were upset when you felt your employees were abusing the loans you offered. So what do you think about someone who steals from their parent? Seriously - what does it say about a person’s character that they would betray in such a manner those who (IMO) ought to be closest to them? Do you consider it better, worse, or the same if he stole from you rather than a neighbor, or a stranger?
How much does his age enter into your assessment? ISTM that you are giving this 19-year old man considerable leeway for being immature. And I wonder, when do you believe he will become mature, and how will that come about?
If you believe he is immature and exhibits character deficits, how do you believe that came about? And what is best to do at this point to A) improve his character, and B) failing such improvement, protect yourself and others from his shortcomings?
I tend to be pretty strict, and have gotten considerable criticism on these boards for what many consider my over-reaction to my kids’ arguably minor transgressions. But IMO, your son’s actions are very significant. Tho you say you are taking a hard line in your response, I’m sensing that it is essentially the same approach you may have taked towards discipline in the past, although undoubtedly you feel you have ratcheted up the discipline and imposed more drastic repercussions. I do not doubt that you are a loving and caring parent. But part of me wonders if having done the best you could for 19 years got your family to this place, is it realistic to think that you yourself will be capable of getting past it?
I suggest you need to be very careful that this doesn’t “blow over” and that you don’t allow your household fall back into the prior dynamics under which this behavior began. It took 19-years for your son to fuck up this badly - you certainly can’t expect it to turn about in a matter of weeks or months. Trust takes a long time and consistently repeated actions to re-establish.
It’s good that you acknowledge this. Now put it behind you and move on, otherwise you’ll be making excuses for your son for the rest of your lives. That won’t do either of you any good.
And for god’s sake, don’t let him know that you think his selfish behavior is your fault!
So drive the little shit over to his dad’s house with his bags packed. March his sorry ass up to the door, knock on the door and say “here, he’s all yours”.
How hard is that? If he won’t go live at his dad’s on his own take him there.
And you took him back into your house why? Did he come back to you with a sincere understanding of what he’d done wrong and a plan (however unrealistic) of paying you back? Or did you just take pity on his misery and tell him he could come home to mommy?
Foxy, I just want to congratulate you on how you’ve handled yourself in this thread. You’re taking some serious heat but you’ve listened to what everyone had to say, and I think that’s impressive.
Much like Will Repair said, I think you’re handling it appropriately. It sounds as if this is your son’s first major (and it is MAJOR) transgression against you. I’m not a parent, but I made my first BIG BAD MISTAKE when I was 18, and my parents – especially my mom – reacted much as you have. It took a long time to rebuild our relationship, but we came out the other side.
I for one do not suspect drugs, nor do I think he’s some nascent menace to society at large because of the money he’s stolen from you. People, generally speaking, treat their families with less consideration and respect than they do anyone non-family. Even in the best of families, there’s a whole lotta love but there’s also a lot of taking for granted. You see your family members at their best and worst, and yes, sometimes the “worst” is pretty awful – but it can and I think usually does stay limited to family.
I think you’ve clearly illustrated that your son viewed your income as “family” money – not yours alone to dispense, but as the pot from which the whole family is supported. He didn’t see it as stealing, he saw it as helping himself to the pot, with the intention of repaying it. You’ve given him a wake-up call. Good on you.
Maybe he’s addicted to his games. Have you asked his if he can go without gaming for a month?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/03/health/webmd/main1773956.shtml
I think BrainWreck was the one that finally hit the nail on the head over my son’s attitude about money. He simply didn’t get it. He didn’t know how credit cards worked or over limit fees or checking accounts. I did not teach him but turned him lose after he graduated and said…“ok, dude my job is done. You’re on your own financially.” I should have sat him down well before this to make him understand. However, the point of finally having the conversation was so he finally WOULD understand the situation he put me in. His first words were, “you only bring home that much?” It was essentially the credit card talk that I should have had years ago. This is how much my bills are, this is how credit cards work re minimum payments, interest, fees etc. If I have $300 left a month and you have run up $4500 dollars in bills, my minimum payments are more than that amount. It was an important conversation and perhaps I could have kept my salary “secret” but I didn’t see the point. I wanted the lesson to be based on reality.
I’ve got this sociopath thing on the brain and I think I will call the insurance company for a referral to a professional today. I have been googling information on it and some of the traits fit and some do not. My son is definitely impulsive, irresponsible and unreliable. He has entitlement issues and has lied about this entire mess and to this day, I don’t know if I have even gotten the true story.
However, on the other end. He is very laid back. I have never seen him “rage” at anything or anyone. He has many very close friends and is very capable of receiving and returning love in a positive way. He possesses empathy for others and will do whatever he can to help people. Oh, and he most definitely is feeling the pain of our estranged relationship.
I just feel it can’t hurt and if nothing else, maybe he can work on some issues as to why he let this get so far.
In the meantime I spoke to him about taking half his salary and he said he would prefer that I take all of it and pay his bills, give him gas money and just keep the rest until I am paid back. I explained that he needs to be responsible and won’t learn that by having his mommy writing out his check for his car insurance and the prepaid cell phone he wants to get.
If you still want to sell of his stolen stuff on Ebay, it might be a practical solution to throw it all in a box and to bring the box to one of those stores that sells your stuff for you.
With your business and all, you probably won’t have time to list and sell the stuff yourself. Making your son sell his own stuff might work, but OTOH, maybe he will set up a friend to buy his stuff back for him. He’s clever, remember?
Getting all the stuff out of the house is a fitting punishment: the stuff didn’t belong to your son, and now it’s gone. Having a game-free zone also lets you find out if your son IS addicted to videogames. Also, having no videogames to play might give your son more time to think and more time to work.
I do agree with what **Beadalin ** said, Foxy. You’re taking this all quite well. But some of the stuff you’re posting makes me wonder whether you’re almost as clueless as your son. Things like this:
I don’t know about the jail thing one way or the other. In all likelihood, he may end up there eventually anyway. When he takes this shit to the general public — if you ever cut him loose — people aren’t going to care about how sweet he was as a baby. And dental school? Do you really think there’s something magical about going off to school that is going to change his basic nature? Yes, I know you think he’s essentially a good kid, but the laziness and irresponsibility will go to school right along with him. He’ll drop out in the first year probably. That’s what that old saying is all about: no matter where you go, there you are.
Foxy40, what did he say when you confronted him about his ongoing theft? Has there been any discussion of paying back the money he stole from you?
Does his girlfriend know he is a thief?
I am worried about you and your son. I know you feel you have some fault in this because you spoiled hm, but you have to set him on the right track now or he will never get there.
My husband’s nephew has had problems ever since I have known him. He has stolen from his mother (now deceased), his grandparents, and anyone else stupid enough to leave their purse where he could get to it. When he got in trouble as a kid, he was sent to his room. With his Nindendo, his TV, his VCR, his computer and his phone. Yeah - send me to my room. He barely managed to graduate from high school. When his mother died when he was 16, she left him a hefty trust fund composed of her and his dad’s life insurance policies. When he got control of the fund when he turned 21, he blew over a quarter of a million dollars in just under 2 years. He is now in jail, because his aunts and uncles didn’t have the money to bail him out of the various speeding tickets and other offenses he had piled up and ignored until it was too late.
To cut to the chase - if your son doesn’t learn self discipline and control now he will never learn them. He needs to learn that actions have consequences. Your not speaking to him is hardly a consequence. He needs to be paying you back NOW, and if that means he can’t take his girlfriend for dinner at fancy resturants then so be it.
Letting this go is not doing your son a favor. I can understand not wanting to get the police involved, but he has to learn there are consequences. The next people he steals from will probably not be as kind as your are being.
In closing - do you want people to feel that they have to hide their purses, wallets and medications when they know your son is going to visit? That is how we have to act around the nephew.
Good luck. I think you are going to need it.
Because you’re partially responsible for this, doesn’t mean to let it continue. Which is exactly what you’re doing by him having no repurcussions other than handing over his paycheck from a job he’ll probably lose because he’s too busy sleeping!
Yes, if he is that self-righteous and believes he’s entitled to these things, he will steal them from anyone. Because he believes he should have them.
While I’m sympathetic it has put you in a bad spot, I have absolutely no sympathy for your son. He knows what he did. And now he knows he’ll likely never have to pay for it. So, all you have to do is sit around, wait until he spots something else he figures he deserves, then watch your money disappear for that. Or, conversely, you could hide everything, lock your house like Fort Knox and hope for the best.
I don’t know about you, but I couldn’t live that way.
I’m for calling the cops. If it was once, maybe I’d let it go. But continuous? I think not. It’s fraud. It’s theft. It’s wrong. And it’s deliberate.
Think of him, not how bad you’ll feel calling them. You are doing the best thing for him.
Because he cried, said he would make it right and I wimped out. My husband was over to pick up our daughter last night and was ragging on me about that very thing. I had asked him to pick up locks when the shit first hit the fan and he was asking why he spent $80.00 on all new locks if I wasn’t going to follow through.
I am hoping that simply leaving them on the counter is making an impression on my son every time he goes into the kitchen. He was really shocked when he saw them when I allowed him back in. “You were going to lock me out?!”
He showed his ass recently when his girlfriend was outside and he wanted her to come in to watch a movie. Request denied. He got an attitude about it and I was very clear that he is perfectly welcome to get the hell out and do whatever he wants. I could see that hurt him but he really needs to understand that he is only there due to my good graces and that can end at any second.
I put much blame on his girlfriend as well. She has been part of our family for the last three years and she was well aware what he was doing and how he was paying for these nice meals. I will eventually forgive him but I don’t have to forgive her. I feel betrayed by her as well.
I’m curious how a 19 year old doesn’t know the basics of how credit cards work. I know you say you didn’t teach him, but he’s old enough that he’s surely encountered these ideas in other places. We had mandatory classes in high school, as well as a mandatory class on credit as freshman at the university. Just about all of my friends that are spread out throughout the country at different colleges have faced similar mandatory classes. I’m only 2 years older than your son, so I’m not exactly far removed from what he’s encountering in college.
Some of the things you’re telling us he’s saying makes him come off as at best naive, but perhaps incredibly immature. My parents never told me, but at 19 I could have made a fair guess at how much they make. Unless you live incredibly above your means, I wonder how he didn’t look around his surroundings and put two and two together about how much you are taking in each month.
I don’t know which thread is more depressing, this one, or the census one in GQ.
Foxy, you continue to justify your non-action with some variation on the theme that your new attitude towards your son “really hurts his feelings.” And, wow, you didn’t let his girlfriend watch a movie in the house and put his stuff in the garage. So he stole all this stuff from you and you respond by hurting his feelings and denying him the chance to watch a movie with his girlfriend? And you are keeping the stuff around with him knowing that some day you’ll break and give it back to him?
Whatever. I’ve been following this thread for a while and kept my mouth shut, but it seems you’ve given us enough of an indication that you aren’t going to do anything to actually punish this kid like he needs to be punished. Your inability to properly raise him produced this monster and your inability to properly discipline him here is just another example of that.
Sorry if I’m coming off like a jerk, but as soon as you deal with the fact that your child-raising skills haven’t worked out well so far then maybe you can rectify the situation. I’m not holding my breath, though.
Many people of all ages simply do not know what “interest” is. Just have no concept of it at all. They think that as long as they are making the minimum monthly payment of $40 or whatever, everything is square. Don’t ask me how they rationalize the obvious difference between what they’re paying and what they’re spending, but they do.
Foxy40 , I’ve a suggestion for you. he needs a real world job. Help him find a position as a helper in the construction world. These positions require no experience. He needs an OUTSIDE job. In the brutal fucking heat. Working with men and women who’s dinner depends on their completing their day labor. Let him break his back every goddamn day until he’s paid up what he owes. He’ll have a new perspective on things after a few weeks.
Fuck school. School will be there when he’s done settling up his debts. By that time he’ll be damn grateful to be able to go to school and hopefully find a career that doesn’t involve him slogging his ass around in the heat.
Take every bit of his check that doesn’t go to gas, auto insurance, medical insurance and lunch money. He can make decent money as a helper and will realize quickly how HARD most people have to work for that taco bell lunch. Get him under a foreman who doesn’t take any shit at all. I reccomend concrete, roofing, landscaping, or framing. No ac installers, plumbers, or electricians; he doesn’t deserve to work in the shade on a build. For every time he gets fired, or quits you double the interest on his loan which he has been so delinquent on and has signed an agreement to pay back. On the other hand for every time he puts in overtime and pays you additional moneys you reduce the interest or the remaining balance, your choice.