I don’t think it’s important to quibble between an ethnic slur and a racial slur, especially since they are all artificial creations anyway. For instance, in the time and place where I was growing up, it seemed that people from India, Arabs, and Latinos were considered “ethnic” rather than races, even though there was just as much or more casual discrimination against them. (While of course these days there is more casual acceptance while at the same time more active and open hatred.)
And the phrase is totally an ethnic slur. I don’t have an opinion on whether this use of it deserves a warning or not.
In 1930, the US Census list of races included options like Mexican, Korean, Chinese, Hindu and Japanese.
Benjamin Franklin was upset about “swarthy” peoples coming to America - by which he meant the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians, Swedes, and Germans.
You just keep reaffirming your complaint is based on ignorance. There was mutual disdain on the part of some between the Italians and the Irish in my neighborhood in the Bronx when I was growing up, and there’s still plenty of anti-Irish prejudice in the UK.
Again, ignorance. I’ve linked to a site referencing the use of “potato-eater” as a slur. And if you don’t think the Irish have been regarded as “savages” by the English and by Americans of English descent, then you aren’t familiar with their history.
On re-reading the full quote, it’s convinced me that the poster actually does have disdain for the Irish. Saying “I hate to give the [Irish] any credit” is a bigoted statement even without adding not one but two ethnic slurs. He’s saying that he doesn’t expect anything good from the Irish.
Swedes & Germans? Even French & Russian sounds weird. I think this factoid might not be accurate. I’m used to Italians, Spaniards & Greeks being called swarthy, really don’t like it. Swedes & Germans being included is really unlikely.
" Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth."
Today Irish is regarded as an ethnicity, but earlier it was definitely classified as a race. In fact, the Irish were often linked to or depicted as Africans in order to emphasize their savagery and inferiority.
No ignorance. I said “I don’t think puddleglum was making his comment based on …”
I’m talking about intent and what I believe “he” knows, or at least may not know, hence my comment about him getting the benefit of the doubt. It’s doubtful he was Using “potato eater” to get under anyone’s skin or to be taken offensively. He’s not some new poster trying to get banned. Same with using “savages” ironically.
I’m surprised so many think this sort of disdain in the U.S. for the Irish still exists where that conclusion can be reached. But, okay.
The separation of ethnicity and race isn’t all that relevant with the word “racism,” as it’s been historically used for both. We don’t have a separate word like “ethnicism”–at least, not in common use.
And count me as doubtful that someone wouldn’t know that the potato-eating stereotype was offensive to Irish people. Even if you don’t know the history, and somehow heard the epithet without context, the default is to assume those old-timey ethnic stereotypes are offensive unless you have been told otherwise.
I’m still unsure if mentioning sauerkraut with Germans is kosher.
These days, I almost expect that people claiming Irish ancestry are fibbing (or exaggerating). On the other hand, I knew a guy in college who had Irish ancestry, and was strangely embarrassed by it (he was weird in other ways, too, of course).
A lot of discussion here surrounding this issue seems to center around the poster’s intent. “I don’t think he intended this”, or, “I think he intended that.” Let’s now lose sight of the fact that the clarity of any post is the sole responsibility of the poster because he is the one creating it and who is, in this particular instance, puddleglum.
