Why fibbing? It might be pretty minor, but a lot of us have some Irish. In my case it is only my Mother’s Mother’s Mother. She was apparently born & raised in Cork before coming to NYC. But as I’m half Italian I usually say I’m basically Italian-American, I never claim to be Irish, just that I’m a little Irish and not just on St. Paddy’s Day.
I thought “greaser” described a lifestyle choice; fast cars & loose women and such. What ethnic group is it allegedly associated with? WASP’s? Urban Dictionary and such seem to agree with me. It may be stereotypical certainly, but not racially or ethnically offensive per se. Note I am fully open to being corrected on this score.
Well, I haven’t hedged like that because I think his intent (irony and humor) was perfectly clear. I can only find one comment that even comes close to what you’re saying, from x-ray vision.
I think it’s a slur against Italians, although Wikipedia says also Hispanics:
Fair enough. I may be overreacting to the “everybody’s Irish on Saint Patrick’s Day” philosophy you refer to.
P.S. Another reference to give an idea of how recent ethnic prejudice is: this article praising Joe Dimaggio in 1939 Google Books
“Although he learned Italian first, Joe, now 24, speaks English without an accent, and is otherwise well adapted to most U.S. mores. Instead of olive oil or smelly bear grease he keeps his hair slick with water. He never reeks of garlic and prefers chicken chow mein to spaghetti.”
A kinder, gentler Dope
From Merriam-Webster:
It was a standard slur for Mexican in the U.S. Southwest from the 19th century up through the middle of the 20th century. Yanks just enjoy disparagement so much that we will often expand definition and use to groups not originally targeted. Spic has undergone a similar expansion to Italians and Greeks.
A note on using the Urban Dictionary: it tends to pick up very recent definitions (where people think that a word has a confusing meaning) while omitting definitions that are so common that “everyone” already knows that meaning.
Greaser is a slur for Mexicans. It can also be used for Italians (also greaseball). Greaser culture is not specifically ethnic although it was largely associated with Italians and Latinos. If you talked about a greaser in my high school in the 1960s you were probably talking about an Italian who had adopted greaser culture.
I was elaborating on what you said, not trying to inform you.
You can express irony and humor without the use of ethnic slurs. Even if that were his intent, that would be inappropriate.
How about this: “I hate to give those stupid greaseballs any credit, but Italians sure know how to cook!” Pretty hilarious, no? Or “I hate to give those dumb Swedish squareheads any credit, but IKEA makes pretty good furniture.”
Understood.
For all my disagreements with puddleglum, I don’t think this comment deserved a warning: he was clearly suggesting that the Irish were civilized through the use of an ironically and intentionally inapt insult. At best it could take a “Don’t make jokes undermining ethnic stereotypes with ethnic slurs” note.
Moderate with finger outside the trigger guard.
&
And “white trash” is actually racist against Blacks. Cracked recently had an article or video article about that. Sorry, but I can’t seem to find it now.
Mods, I feel like if both Left Hand of Dorkness and iiandyiiii thought it was, at worst, mod-notable, but not warnable, that’s an indication that, maybe, the warning should be rescinded. Both of those posters are pretty clued in on this kind of thing.
Colibri, there’s something inapt to your analogy, but I can’t put my finger on it. I think it’s because puddleglum was stating that the Irish were far from savages (low crime rate), whereas your “greaseballs” comment has nothing to do with cooking.
ETA: I think I’ve said my piece here. This is not a hill I’m willing to die on. (Side note – I thought it should be “said my peace”, so I double-checked. TIL it’s “said my piece”)
That’s the way I took it as well. See, the Irish have done X and Y better than the United States. Not bad for a bunch of ____.
To me that is saying that for anyone who wants to say bad things about the Irish, look at this good thing they have done. And “potato eating savages” is almost comical as an insult sort of the way I joke with Canadians in some posts. Has anyone in history referred to the Irish as “savages.” I’ve never heard it. It’ was a comment made in jest for levity.
Next time he should just say that the Irish are not genetically equal to other ethnic groups and, almost, no one will bat an eye.
CMC fnord!
While I knew at least some of the history of Irish people being oppressed, it didn’t connect in my mind that anti-Irish slurs still had power today. I think the post in question appeared to be meant ironically, but the warning and this thread has helped educate me. I hope puddleglum takes it as an opportunity to learn as well, and I’ll (once again) note that I think he’s a good contributor, despite his nauseating politics.
Is it? This site says peace: Speak now or forever hold your peace
As in at a wedding, if you have an objection to the wedding, then speak now or forever hold your peace.
IOW, if you don’t say what is on your mind now, then don’t start causing problems with this marriage later, be at peace with it, or “hold” your peace.
Maybe with a emoticon, but it it is a obvious slur.
Saying your piece is different than holding your peace. I know the words sound a lot alike.