I guess we're taking each other back to court...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

In this thread I told the tale of how I lost my temper and, incorrectly, unloaded on my ex-mother-in-law for my ex-wife’s actions. Quite a lot of you pointed out the errors of my way and many of you stated I should take my ex- back to court and have the court deal with this.

A couple days later I sent my ex-MiL an apology for my letter, she acknowledged it, and things have been quiet with her.

Fast forward a couple more days and I have prepared and filed motions with our local country courthouse to take my ex back with a “Motion to Enforce Divorce Agreement”. After talking with the county clerk yesterday, I’m also going to file a “Motion for Contempt of Court” for two of four issues brought up in the previous motion.

In the midst of all this, my ex- has started making noises that she’s going to take me back to court in an attempt to modify the original divorce decree.

She sent me an email, the first time she’s ever emailed me, and said:

It’d be funny if it didn’t imply a metric buttload of crap heading my way.

“lose my temper…leave in tears” - Are you serious??? I work in a cube-farm, I have to keep my voice down. And the last time you cried, sweetie, you cried because you ran out of lemon juice to pour in my eye-sockets.

“not as we discussed” - Like hell. I have email copies discussing the debt and asset split. The separation papers reflect those discussions and the divorce papers mirror the separation papers. You’re getting everything you’re supposed to get which is probably more than you deserve.

“demanding emails” - In which I seek actual answers to questions of common debt, child custody, and other apparently unimportant issues.

“very very good lawyer” - I hope they’re very good, they’ll tell you the deal was fair and you’re lucky to have what you have. You’ll have to find a less good lawyer who will only take your case for the money he can wring from you.

sigh

I received a letter from her boyfriend’s mother, her psuedo mother-in-law. I got it, I assume, by accident. The letter is clearly intended for my ex- but she must’ve cut and pasted addresses incorrectly. In it she lays out a strategy with my ex- to target my remaining 401k money. She also says that if I agree to provide the children a “stable home” and “return the child-support payments to where they should be” then they’ll leave me the contents of my 401k.

“Provide a stable home”, in context of the rest of the letter, means “give up custody” to my ex. The motivation for this, in my opinion, is the second part part of the sentence: child support payments. I think my ex has realized that her child-support payment is going to drop by a good chunk (from $1700 to $750 a month) when I receive half custody of the children and she’s panicking and trying to alter the original divorce settlement.

She did, surprisingly, send a later email with actual answers to my questions.

In this email, she backs out of her agreement to pay her half of the back tax bill. She’s refusing to send any part of the children’s clothing, toys, DVD’s, or property to their new home. She still doesn’t agree to pay the credit card bill that’s hers in the decree, and she says the verbal agreement we had where I pay her auto bill from her CS payments and deduct the amount never existed. (I immediately stopped payment on the next car bill, sent her the money instead and included the account’s full payment information.)

I’m gathering paperwork, I’m getting ready to go back. I’ve made threats that if she takes me back to court and tries to take the kids from me, the gloves are off. I’ll bring her financial history into court, her mother’s child abuse history, pictures of her housekeeping skills, her thieving live-in boyfriend, and any other dirt that will make her look like the scum I think she really is. I made a veiled threat that the hundreds of thousands she’ll inherit on the death of her mother will be targeted by me as recompense for her financial irresponsibility over the past 12 years. (slim chance, I know)

My real aim was to scare her off, make her rethink taking me to court. I don’t think the threats worked. Yesterday I got a call from our kids’ sitter. The ex stopped through and saw that I had forgotten to pay my week’s childcare bill on Friday. (This week was strange. My weekend with the kids is my usual reminder to pay the sitter. I pay when I pick up. Since I’m living this month semi-homeless, I don’t have the kids on weekends this month. I forgot to pay the sitter Friday. I took a check by our sitter within 15 minutes of the call.) My ex left a check for her to cover my payment but made the sitter sign a quickly written letter about what an evil man I must be.

She’s gathering her ammunition, puny as I think it is… I guess I’m going to have to build a bunker.

2

Get yourself a good lawyer. While I’m sure the laws are different in Colorado, my experiences both directly and indirectly with the Family Law Courts of California have made it very clear that she could be just as evil and sleazy as you’ve described, and she’ll still get the kids, the higher child support, and anything else she asks for.

Good Luck. Keep us posted.

3

Who is lying will come out in court.

Who is a bitch will come out in court.

Who is right and who is wrong will come out in court.
I keep opening these threads hoping to read something that makes me believe that you have grown, that you have matured, that you have decided to limit your interactions to the proper venue.

You might be getting there, but you’re not there yet.

Let the court handle this.

And take a better attitude into court than you’ve got here.
I know it may seem like it to you, but believe me when I tell you that after one lousy semester in the DA’s office, if I had a dollar for every person who came into court thinking they were rational, and, halfway through explaining themselves to the judge, very publicly painted themselves into a corner, hit a brick wall, or just flat out realized that they were NOT, in fact, rational at all, well, I’d have enough money to have stayed in the DA’s office.

Get a lawyer.

Do what he tells you.

Don’t second-guess him.

If you don’t understand EXACTLY what he’s asking you for, get him to clarify.

Give him EVERY document you have, whether you think it’s relevant or not- that’s his call to make and he knows stuff you don’t. Don’t EVER say, “I don’t think he’ll need this.”

Yes, that means give him things that paint you in a bad light. News flash, Jack- acrimonious divorces are rarely all one person’s fault. Hell, it doesn’t even matter if her reasons for doing things are irrational- they’re perfectly real to her and you have to work with that.

Do EXACTLY what he tells you. Did I mention that. Let me mention it again. Do EXACTLY what he tells you.

Don’t tell him your side of the story. Tell him the actual story.
And for the love of God, stop calling the ex a lying bitch. It might be cathartic, but it ain’t classy.

4

I would also suggest you stop e-mailing your ex. All communication needs to go through the attorneys.

Why do I fear this is not the end of this saga? I truly feel sorry for your children, stuck in the middle of this chaos not of their making.

5

In the beginning, what, at least a year ago, I felt sorry for you. Oh, your big bad mean ex-wife, how hateful and slovenly she is, oh you poor thing. But here it is, many moons later, and you’re still slamming her on the internet every chance you get. Dude, it’s getting a little weird now. Find a friend, a family member, or your lawyer, and do your venting there. This is not appropriate, and you’re not making yourself look any better than she is. Just MHO.

6

I’ve been following your story too, and I feel for you, I really do. My boyfriend is dealing with the same sort of crazy woman (his ex-wife and mother of his kids), and it’s a nightmare. I have no doubt that your ex is deserving of your ranting.

However, you really do need to get a lawyer and do everything by the book from now on. Don’t “make threats” that “the gloves are off.” Just Do It. You should have taken her back to court to begin with, not tried to “reason” with her mother. And I agree with Ivylass, all communication needs to go through your lawyer to her lawyer.

Best of luck to you, and know that you are not alone - there are lots of crazy, lazy & greedy ex-wives out there trying to take advantage of well-meaning fathers like yourself. Unfortunately “the system” is skewed against the fathers, so you have to work even harder to get justice.

7

Once again, Happy Scrappy says what I’m thinking about this subject. You need to get a good lawyer, listen to him, and work on getting emotionally divorced from this woman.

8

I’m going to have to disagree with Alice the Goon a bit here - if you need to vent, vent. You know this board well enough to know people will tell you what they think, not what you want to hear.

I am glad you are finally going to handle this through the courts, and I hope you will keep us posted.

Best of luck to you and your kids.

9

Belrix, I hope this doesn’t come across a value judgment or whatever, because it’s not, but I think seeing a therapist would be a really good idea.

Because, let’s face, this is a message board. On the Internet. And a therapist is a professional talker and problem-solver who can help you work out stuff with your divorce and life situation right now.

I hope things go much better for you in the future, and I’ve got my fingers crossed for you.

10

How many times do you have to be told to retain the services of a lawyer? Your ex-wife apparently is preparing to, or already has, taken the trouble to “find a good lawyer” while you state that you “have prepared and filed motions with our local country courthouse to take my ex back with a “Motion to Enforce Divorce Agreement”.” If you go before a judge without a lawyer while your ex-wife does have a lawyer, you’re going to have your ass handed to you on a plate.

Hire a lawyer and allow your lawyer to communicate with her lawyer; in the meantime, stop communicating with her yourself. You’re only digging your own grave.

11

Please read the entire post above. You REALLY need to give up your desire to have the last word. Every time you talk to her, you’re digging your hole deeper. Let the lawyer do it, and the cost he charges you will be well worth it to make sure you’re not fucking yourself. again.

12

Stop posting these threads.

Everything you post here is potentially discoverable and may be used against you in any legal procedings. Is anything here or in the myriad other threads you’ve posted on this subject harmful to you and your legal circumstances? I have no idea, I’m not a lawyer, but why give the other side ammunition?

13

Otto, is this truly discoverable? Does this count as communication, perhaps? This fascinates me, if so.

14

I guess I don’t understand. This woman is trying to take my kids from me and you all want me to be emotionally indifferent to it.

For what it’s worth, I consulted a lawyer before I filed the motion. Do you think I came up with a phrase “Motion to Enforce Divorce Agreement” on my own? Right now I really can’t afford an in-court lawyer unless it seems really necessary - then maybe I can borrow some bucks from my parents to put down a retainer.

When I said that this woman has left me without any money, I’m not really kidding. I have about $25 in the checking account right now and about $620 in savings and I owe the feds $605 for taxes this year. That’s $30 that hasn’t been spent yet and payday is a 9 days away. Sometime this week, I’m anticipating having to put gas in my gas tank.

I don’t think she’s hired a “really, really good lawyer” because, as of our last conversation, she won’t reveal a name to me as to who it is. You’d think that if she had one, she’d tell me because the lawyer would be the person I’d be sending this stuff to.

I think she’s posturing, too. Her hiring a lawyer to try to get any assets I have left is ludicrous, too. The only thing I have is a 401k which is far from liquid, was disclosed on the declaration forms, and was discussed in the early emails. She didn’t get any money from it because I took 2/3rds of the joint debt. My “payback” for taking the larger piece of debt was I got to keep the ~$20k in that account. She signed off on this.

So, to all you who are shouting “hire a lawyer”, thank you for your advice, if I had the money to do this, I probably would. Right now the pre-paid legal service I subscribe to will give advice over the phone and review the documents I prepare. For now that will have to do.

For those of you who want me to be emotionally indifferent, I’ll say, “I want to but I can’t.” When you have somebody trying to take your kids away, maybe you can teach me your techniques for indifference.

15

You’re right. You don’t understand.

16

Fine, don’t be emotionally indifferent. I’m sure nobody thinks that’s possible and nobody in this thread is telling you to do so. But, for the love of God, act emotionally indifferent around your ex-wife. All this combative behavior is just the long way to conceding every point.

17

You don’t understand at all. This woman is trying to get an advantage in a divorce and we want you to view it in the proper light, and, more importantly ACT ACCORDINGLY.

No, that’s 635 bucks you have to retain the services of an attorney. An ounce of prevention and a pound of cure and all that. You’re going to look back fondly on that $635 as a lost fortune if you don’t do this correctly.

Allow me to point out that this is EXACTLY why so many people are frustrated with you. It doesn’t matter what you think. If I were divorcing you, I wouldn’t tell you my lawyer’s name either. You’ll find that out in court. Listen, pal, I don’t know how to tell you any more strongly than this:** your perception of what is likely, and what is going on in reality are and always have been incongruent, not only because you think that your own perception of the moral high ground is the basis for the workings of the world, but because you are seriously ill-informed as to how the world works in this case.**

We get it. You think this woman is evil and out to get your kids and looking to screw you out of money and she can’t possibly have a good lawyer and your blamelessness is going to come shining through in court, winning the day for the forces of righteousness.

But MAYBE, just MAYBE, she’s a confused soul who is trying to protect her children and has made some mistakes. And MAYBE, just MAYBE, you’re not so righteous but in fact an ass who badmouths her to her own mother and to a bunch of strangers on the internet. And maybe she has a good lawyer.

Even if she’s got a BAD lawyer, that’s still one more lawyer than you’ve got.

I suggest you act as if the second paragraph were true and not the first.

What you think doesn’t matter. Discovery is a punishment in and of itself. Rules are looser in these proceedings. I’m not your lawyer, not a divorce lawyer, not even A lawyer. And I’m not a psychic, but, in the immortal words of Clubber Lang: “Prediction? PAIN.”

You’re welcome. It won’t do.

Nobody’s saying “be emotionally indifferent.” However, most everybody is saying, “stop being an ass about all this.”

18

This is none of my damn business, and I freely acknowledge this, but you’ve been posting about this for more than a calendar year so I feel I must make a breif comment.

Firstly, find a therapist. Failing that, find a pastor or someone else you can talk about this with. It’s starkly clear that you’re bitter, angry and hateful towards your ex. I’m steadfastly going to refuse to take a position on whether or not those feelings are justified by her behavior. What I am going to do is inform you that if you don’t think for one single second that your children don’t know how you feel about their mother, you’re sadly, tragically mistaken. They know.

It does not matter one teeny, tiny little bit how evil your former spouse is, she is still their mother. Your feelings will color their relationship with her - and with you. Why do you want to do that to them?

You have every right to your feelings. Now suck it the hell up and work on finding away to at least get them to neutral towards your former spouse.

I get so profoundly tired of people exclaiming during a divorce that it’s really all about minimizing the impact on their kids and then refusing to give up their hate and bitterness and anger toward their former spouse. In fact, they cuddle their bitterness to them and bring it out to wallow about it every time some new facet of the divorce crops up. You’re being that guy. Stop being that guy. Yeah, yeah, you’re just using the Dope to vent about it - that’s crap. What you’re posting is how you really feel about her - and your kids know that. Would you say what you’ve posted here to your kids? Using the same language? No? Then don’t freaking say it here! Focus all that energy on trying to get to a place yourself where you just don’t harbor all that rancor - it’s not good for you, and it’s hurting your children.

Find 10 people with parents who divorced while they were children. Ask them how the knowledge that one or more of their parents loathe and desipse their other parent made them feel. Ask if that was in any way helpful to them. Dollars to donuts, at least nine of those people answer in the negative.

19

Let me tell you a quick story about a friend of mine who is in the same situation as you.

He has 3 kids, all of whom are in middle and high school. Seven years ago he went through a divorce that was extremely messy. He ended up losing his kids to his ex-wife who is quite literally crazy, as well as having to pay child support that was way in excess of what he was able to earn at the time.

Over the past seven years, he has gone through more heartbreak and drama with his ex over the custody of the kids and payment of child support than I’ve ever seen. Each time she took him to court, he would lose out… either financially by having to pay more in child support, or emotionally by losing more rights to his kids.

He never once had a lawyer…not during the divorce and never when he was in court afterwards during the past seven years.

Yes, he is poor and has next to no money, but he should have found himself a lawyer anyway. He had resources available to him that could have put a lawyer in his corner, but he was so mentally and emotionally drained by the end of it (heh, what end? its’ still going on) that when a lawyer was available to him, he didn’t take it and the situation kept spiraling out of control. So now because the situation is so out of control for him, he can hardly keep his own finances in order, he only gets to see his kids for one supervised hour once per week, and he now is seeing indications of child abuse on his ex’s part… and he is unable to do anything about it.

What I’m trying to say is that I think you should exhaust every possible resource to get yourself a lawyer to protect your interests now because if you don’t, she will get everything; and getting it all back later will be even more difficult and cause you even more mental and emotional anguish.

20

Cite? Dude, nobody is saying this. Nobody. All anyone is suggesting is:

**1) Get a lawyer. ** (You’ve addressed this already in the thread.)
2) Stop communicating directly with your ex via e-mail.
3) Stop venting here; it’s legally damaging at worst and ugly at best.
4) Maybe you should see a therapist.

Number 4, in particular, is antithetical to being emotionally indifferent. Nobody’s telling you to do that. I don’t think it would be possible, personally, and I speak as one who got divorced in 2005 with kids in the mix.

I like you, Belrix. To the extent I “know” you on the boards, which is primarily through threads about your divorce, I care about you and hope things get better for you. But I agree with those who’ve pointed out that you don’t seem to be getting any healing or distance on this thing; you sound pretty much the same you did last year.