I think I can maybe add something helpful (maybe, I’m not fucking Ghandi or anything), but it would take a long time to lay it out here, so if you find you are seriously distressed and need someone to talk to, someone who has learned to cope with such serious unhappiness and as a result is no longer seriously unhappy, I welcome you to PM or e-mail me.
Olives,
Christy
What’s a “good job”? And how important is it?
I’m self-employed in fields a lot of folks associate with slackers (music and design). My mom & dad (well-set retirees) help me out. I don’t need to sponge off anybody.
What image does this present? If it’s not a good one, what can I do?
And what, do you imagine, is a total dealbreaker job-wise in dating?
That us a heavy burden to drop on a relationship. The love of my life. Like the old R & R song. They say for every boy and girl there’s just one love in this whole world etc.
Just go out and have fun, let the rest take its course.
There is a newer and more interesting one around the corner.
Well, that’s a good thing since Ghandi preached abstinence. 
It seems I wasn’t clear enough…I didn’t mean to say I was unhappy, just that I’m not happy. You do have a point though, and it’s one I’ve considered. I’ve seen how people who claim to be happy act, and I don’t notice myself acting anything close how they were. I’ve also seen people who claim to be unhappy, and I don’t see myself in them, either.
Although, on further reflection, it seems that I must be sharing something with unhappy people, from the way others react when I mention some of the things I’m thinkin’.
olivesmarch4th: I’m interested in what you have to say, but, since I’m a guest, I can’t PM…I think my email is set as public in my profile if you could send me an email…
All I ask for is a woman of compatible religious observance, intelligence, age, & height. And she must look good in a piratey corset. Is that too much to ask for?
So don’t ask me for sympathy.
And I thought this thread had died its natural death!
In that thread, I was one of the ones who lived in Oshawa. I know what ‘sucky’ is like. Although, honestly, there were good things about it as well. I woder what the rent is like in the downtown area for an art gallery? 
gonzomax, Scuba_Ben, perhaps you’re right. Maybe “The Love of my Life” is the wrong thing to ask for. Or, considering my history, maybe I’m not cut out for it. There’s a lot to be said for a friendly shag on a Saturday night.
Yag Rannavach, being a hermit s easy. Believe me, I’ve been there; it runs in the family. You don’t have to worry about bending your routine to fit another, you can go to sleep and wake up when you want to and eat what you want; you can follow your whim. I managed to arrange things so that I lived alone and could work from home. I thought I had it made.
And you know what? It didn’t work. I slowly retreated from the world, doing less and less. When I spent a whole week doing nothing and no-one noticed, even at work, I knew something was wrong. I found I needed social contact to stay sane.
Your mileage may vary, of course, and perhaps the hermit experience is what you’re cut out for. But it is no longer for me.
Yag Rannavach, my apologies. My intention was not to make you explain yourself. I was just curious about the feelings underlying the words.
I have the same curiosity when people say they’ve been depressed all their life. I always wonder how they know. It interests me when people describe their internal states. It sometimes seems to me that some people describe their internal states based on others’ external appearances. But I can’t know that for sure. That’s where my curiosity lies.
Anyway, I’m sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable. That wasn’t my intention.
“No, I didn’t say she was crazy…”
I agree with you. You need social contact to stay sane…which makes it a good thing that I plan to go insane in my hermit-dom. I figure that, once I’m insane, I won’t know I’m insane, and so I’ll think I’m sane…and there won’t be anyone to disagree with me! (convoluted? sure!)
You didn’t. It’s just that that’s my only option (the observation part), since, as you quite rightly pointed out, I don’t know what being happy or sad is.
Hell, it isn’t even the bending my routine, or not being able to do what I want, when I want that bothers me about people. It’s having to constantly analyze what’s said, how it’s said, what it means, what the possible implications are, and so on. And then, after I’ve figured out a guess as to what’s being said, I need to think of some kind of reply…and then the whole process restarts in a neverending loop. And don’t you dare tell me to “be myself” or any of that crap…I’ve tried; it doesn’t work.
I wouldn’t dream of it.
But if you’ll permit me to butt in a little more, you might be interested in this thread Social anxiety, anyone? You sound like you have the classic symptoms–the constant analyzing. In addition, you might also want to check out some info. on CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). It’s about changing the inner dialogue that’s taking place because you’re probably right that when you tell people what you’re thinking, they’ll think you’re unhappy. If you tell yourself negative and hurtful stuff, there’s a good chance you’ll be unhappy. IANAD. . those are just some thoughts based on what you’ve noted so far. And none of that is to say that something is wrong necessarily. Ithink what you’re describing is pretty common based on my experience, which I will grant is limited.
One thing about insanity is, it feels quite normal as it happens.
Oh, I’ve been there, done that, and I don’t want that T-shirt. It seems that some people (most people?) pick this awareness of others, and the subtext/meaning of what they are doing, up naturally in childhood or adolescence (or fail to have it beaten out of them). Then there are those who have to learn it consciously later, like me. And it still doesn’t come naturally; I don’t know whether it ever will.
A month or so ago, I discovered that when my counselor meets someone, their voice, appearance, mannerisms, etc, all come together seamlessly in his mind to create a unified impression. Apparently this is normal.
Not so for me. For me, it takes a deliberate act of will to remember a face, associate that with a voice, add a way of moving, and so on. It takes effort, which means I often lose the thread of a introductory conversation while doing this. And I am easily confused by a change in hairstyle, for example. But I am getting better at it.
Then there’s the whole “trying to figure out what’s going on as <other person> speaks” thing that you describe, Yag. In my case, this may be related to a relative conscious insensitivity to body language and facial expression. Which IMHO is related to the “having to assemble my knowledge of someone” thing.
Thanks for the link, H & R. I missed that thread.
No, I’m pretty sure that’s not it. Being around other people is like an exercise in lying. You need to make sure the wrong thing isn’t said, and you also need to be watchful for the lie the other person is telling. These are the kinds of questions I need to answer on some level when dealing with other people:
Why are they talking to me? What are they after? How do I prevent (or help) them from getting it? Should I sympathize with their problems, try to help them find a solution, or tell them to fuck off? How do I go about doing the chosen course of action to minimize(or maximize) the chance of it coming back to me?
And each decision beyond the trivial that I make must be vetted through a minimum of three committies before it is approved for finalization. The finalization process takes a minimum of one day to complete, though in certain extenuating circumstances it can be accelerated.
Huh. I’ve always been pathetic at remembering names, and I’m no damn good at reading people (or anything interpersonal beyond basic socializing: dating, office politics, power games, manipulation for fun and profit, recognizing when I’m being played off someone else, etc.), but I never thought of the two as connected. That’s very interesting.
Normal? Well shit…I’ve only met one other person for whom that was the case, though that isn’t saying much, since I don’t meet too many people. Maybe it is normal, after all…
I tend to ignore body language and facial expressions and focus on voice/what’s being said, though I’ll catch a few of the obvious ones.
Arrg we had some sort of Ice storm yesterday that had my dsl tripping the light fantastic so this reply is sorta late.
Your tale of woe is not unusal , its just the times we live in. From what i have gathered , it would appear that people are going out in tribes , attribute this to what ever you want but if your not in the group , your not going to get attention.
Having said that , you have not mentioned how long you were going to these places and what you have been doing to try an attract an interest from other partys. The other slice of the pie , is how well do you network or were you ever shown how to.
How about putting some thought into pixels and describe what you have been doing before I stick my foot in mouth and give you bad advice.
Declan
Oh please you dont get out of a good rant that way
Seriously Oshawa is still Ontario and golden horseshoe at that, you should head somewhere alien, somewhere that will force you to examine things in a new light or odor depending.
It wont help ya getting laid ,but at least you should be able to regale people with stories about growing up in O town and vice versa when you get back.
Declan
Didn’t think it was. I’m not tryin’ to make myself out to be unique here or anything, I’m sure there is someone else, somewhere else who is similar to me.
A few weeks, and nothing to try to attract attention to myself, except finding a nice corner to sit in and glare at everyone from. Okay, I’m exagerating a bit…but more seriously, I don’t do well at walking up to random people and introducing myself, hell, I don’t even do well saying ‘hello’ and ‘goodbye’ to the few people I used to know (I much prefer ‘appearing’ and ‘disappearing’).
Besides that, though, I think one issue is that I’m searching for answers where there aren’t, and can’t be, any. How should I behave? is a question that has no final answer. This causes me to get caught in a loop, trying to think through all possible ways my behavior could be interpreted. I do know how I shouldn’t behave, though…and that’s how I’d be if I were to ‘be myself’.
But feet taste so damn good 
Sunspace
All I can say is be patient. I know that’s the kind of advice that can make your eyes roll, because I’ve been there, and I’ve rolled mine. I’m still severely impaired with respect to social things, but learning … slowly. Part of my growth is taking place on this board. I was just a bit older than you before I finally met my wife. Before I finally bought a home. Before I finally brought my financial affairs in good order.
I say all this to give you some hope. I know how much it all hurts, including the childhood trauma. But as my sainted mother used to say, “You never know what’s around the corner.” Next week, tomorrow, or tonight is when it could happen. If the ear or shoulder of a compatriot would help you, just let me know.