I’m so sorry your feeling this way pldennison. I’ve been there before, as many of us have, and I’d just like to say that I hope you can learn to forgive yourself. You’re human, you make mistakes, you learn from your mistakes, and you obviously know what you’d like to change about yourself. Today may be the world’s crappiest day for you, but I sincerely hope tomorrow is better.
>-,-’-- (<-- crude representation of an olive branch)
Stupid? Untalented? Hardly. And you probably have the respect of more people than you’re aware of.
I wouldn’t presume to offer any suggestions.
Well…except for fishing. It helps me. 
I’m sure I have no idea what you’re talking about here.
Do you get the thing where you’ll just unexpectedly remember something you did or said at any time from when you were like 8 or 9 to last weekend, and your gut will clench? I don’t. Certainly not. But if I did, you could watch me walking down the street, and when you catch my sudden grimace and little balled fists, you could think to yourself, “Lux is remembering when he made fun of that kid in elementary school,” or “Lux is remembering calling his ex, drunk, at 4 a.m., in college.” Or, you know, pick one. Do you get that? 'Cause that’s the best. I love that.
I find I’m a little better since I’ve moved to a city, and have to be around lots of people all the time, though. Now I find that though I may hate myself, it’s not as bad because I really hate everyone else.
Also, for what little it may be worth, I respect the shit out of you.
“Do you get the thing where you’ll just unexpectedly remember something you did or said at any time from when you were like 8 or 9 to last weekend, and your gut will clench?”
I do, and this has to be one of the most singularly … difficult things I go through. I remember any number of assholish things I did and relive them. And there’s nothing I can do but say “God, what a fucking MORON! GAH!”
I don’t envy anyone who has selective memory like that, at any point in time. It suck more than a five-cent hooker on the night before rapture.
Carry on.
“Do you get the thing where you’ll just unexpectedly remember something you did or said at any time from when you were like 8 or 9 to last weekend, and your gut will clench?”
I do, and this has to be one of the most singularly … difficult things I go through. I remember any number of assholish things I did and relive them. And there’s nothing I can do but say “God, what a fucking MORON! GAH!”
I don’t envy anyone who has selective memory like that, at any point in time. It suck more than a five-cent hooker on the night before rapture.
Carry on.
I don’t know you, pld, so I can’t speak to most of what you said. Except that I respect what you’ve had to say here (including some old posts that I found annoying) and you’re certainly far from stupid.
And I genuinely wish you well.
pldennison, I feel your pain.
Or, more to the point, I feel MY pain, which is nearly identical to yours. Except you express yourself much better than I do.
I hesitate to post a reply, not knowing if it would even be welcome, but what the hell.
I’m not going to offer you advice on how to feel better; I don’t have any. I don’t know if you’d take it if I did. But here’s the unvarnished truth:
I don’t see why you’d hate yourself. You’re very smart, you’re witty, you obviously care deeply about your friends and family, you’re self-aware and you’re trying to do better. (Not that I think you have to do better, but you seem to think you do.) Someone once said that perfect happiness is for perfect fools, because only they could be so blissfully unaware of the flaws in themselves and their lives.
In the past, you’ve pissed me off worse than any other poster on this Board. I think in saying that, I’m telling you nothing you don’t already know. But the thing is: Only someone I respect could make me that mad. People who I don’t respect – I couldn’t give two shits for what they say to or about me, and I generally can’t even be bothered to tell them to fuck off. I have great respect for your opinions, though I may not appreciate how you express them sometimes, though as to that I think you have been making an effort to be less . . . actively insulting when your dander gets up, which I appreciate.
So, anyway, I think you’re selling yourself short and I wonder if maybe feeling bad generally is making you feel bad about yourself specifically, and not vice versa? That is, maybe you’re not all that and a sack of shit, you just think you are now because of how you feel right now, and later, when your eyes are clearer, you’ll see better. If I were you, maybe I wouldn’t trust what I’m feeling right now to be necessarily right or true. Because from where I’m sitting, it’s not.
For what that’s worth, and maybe it’s worth nothing. But at least you know it’s the dead truth as I see it, since I of all people have absolutely no motivation to blow sunshine up your ass.
pldennison, you and I may disagree on somethings, but I look forward to seeing your name in a thread. I bolded that in the hope you’d see and understand it.
You said “I hate that I cannot let myself off the hook for all the bad decisions I have made, ever.” I beat myself up for 20 years because I couldn’t stop my best friend from having a nervous breakdown. I was 15 at the time, and I’ve only just learned how not to do it, and it’s still not easy. The point is, you can, you will be able to stop, in time. We cannot change what has happened, but we can change our responses to them.
Please take care of yourself, my friend,
CJ
There are few — very few — names on this board that catch my eye, and that in fact I search for, and eagerly look forward to reading what the poster has to say. There might be two or three. Phil Dennison is one of them.
I’ve seen only a couple of posters in my years of experience at this board who have demonstrated the ultimate in intellectual honesty by not just admitting a mistake or an error in logic (you see quite a few of those, actually), but by admitting the error of an entire worldview. Only the most intelligent and honest people alive do that. One of them was Phil Dennison.
A grand total of three posters on this board were responsible for teaching me a great lesson in life so profoundly that, even when I pleaded with God to show me where they were wrong, He Himself took their side and told me in no uncertain terms that atheists are not necessarily lost people and theists are not necessarily saved people. One of those three was Phil Dennison.
I have precious few defenders here whenever I take a stance that is controversial or attempt to deliver a point that goes against the grain. None at all among the mods. And only a handful among the members. Few people give me the benefit of the doubt and assume that I come from the sincerest of convictions. There are few people that I can count on to understand me. One of those people is Phil Dennison.
There aren’t many posters who, like Tris, always leave me thinking as I read and reread what they’ve said. Their posts are like brain candy: provocative, stimulating, and come straight from the heart. Their posts have a certain power over me and edify me greatly, making me more aware, more attuned, and more appreciative of being here. Phil Dennison writes a heck of a lot of those posts.
When you were absent from the boards, it was like something was missing. The level of discourse had fallen. Hand stabbing atheists versus Bible thumping theists. Dry. Predictable. Stale. When you returned, I danced with joy. I cried out your name and thanked my God. Whenever Edlyn or I see your posts, we call the other to the computer. “Look, Honey! Here’s a post from Phil!” (You might find that hard to believe, but it’s true.)
Your mind is razor sharp. Your spirit, even in its depression and sadness, is beautiful to me. I don’t know of anyone here whom I value more. I don’t know of anything that I wouldn’t do for you. I look up to you, and if you’re down, then I’m down lower, curled up at your feet, because I want to be where you are. Heck, I’ve never even met you in so-called “real life”. But I’ve always said that the atoms mean nothing. It’s your wonderful spirit that has come across time and space to me. You’re my mentor. My hero.
I know what it’s like to be at the bottom. I can’t read your mind, and I don’t know what you need from me. But I do know what I needed when I was there. I needed to know that I was loved. Someone very dear to me told me that He loves me. And I think I know that I am very dear to you, Phil.
So I just want to say this to you: I love you.
You do have a somewhat, um, intense board persona. That bothers some people, doesn’t bother others, and there are posters who would like it if you figured out how to turn it down a notch but still think a rather acerbic pld on the boards is better than no pld at all.
Unless we’re Superman, there are always going to be some people whose respect we covet who are going to see us from our least flattering angle, and think of us accordingly.
Like this one?
Our lives are all full of bad decisions. I’ve said my share of things that screwed up good friendships, missed career opportunities out of sheer laziness, been too cowardly to pursue the girl I was in love with who may very well have been in love with me too, and on and on. Once we’ve got any sort of track record in life, all but a few of us don’t have a myraid of past bad decisions to agonize over.
Letting ourselves off the hook for all that stuff is not an easy thing to learn how to do. But I will tell you this: based on my experience, at least, it can be learned. It isn’t easy, but it’s definitely possible.
For me, learning to forgive myself yesterday’s sins, acknowledge my guilt, and leave it behind, starting each day from zero again, was something I learned as a spiritual discipline, as part of my prayer life. (As I saw it, God demanded it: since He says I’m forgiven, it’s stiff-necked of me to refuse that forgiveness.) I don’t know exactly what the non-theistic equivalent of this would be, but I’m sure there is one. It took a couple of years for it to really sink in and become more or less part of me, but it was worth it.
Again, welcome to being human. And a lot of people who are in the same situation aren’t the least bit bothered by being there. That it bothers you is a good thing.
Again, join the crowd. This is one thing I do tend to flog myself over.
You too, huh?
You, and my wife, and my sister, and my best friend, and a bunch of other people I know. And if any of the ones I’ve specifically mentioned decides they ought to be ‘strong enough’ to handle life without the medication, I’ll personally kick their asses from here to Tierra del Fuego and back until they get a clue.
Part of it’s the depression talking, I figure. The rest of it’s a set of unreasonable assumptions of what other people’s lives are like. Most of us have complicated family situations of one sort or another. Most of us struggle (often unsuccessfully) to maintain the friendships we’ve got. And developing new ones is just plain more of a challenge, the older you get. Life is just like that.
That said, let me remind you that few Dopers are more of a pleasure to be with in person than you, whatever you may think of yourself. And you’re so talentless that your boss keeps rewarding your talentlessness by sending you on vacations to places like Hawaii and Australia. (He must really want to get you out of the office, to keep you from dragging performance down. ;)) And so on.
IOW, welcome to the Grand Muddle that is adult life. You’ve got plenty of company.
Most of it’s been said. What I value above all in a poster here is a capacity to listen to others, make up their own mind and speak out regardless of popularity. If there’s an unpopular poster you don’t like who’s being wrongly attacked you’re one of the people who can be counted on to be there saying so. So, yeah, you’ve my respect.
As for the rest of the stuff, as I’m sure you know, it’s normal. You’re having trouble coping with it because you’re depressed. It’s a disease, not something you should hate yourself for. Things will propably seem better soon or you’ll find a better way to manage it as long as you allow yourself to remember this.
Wow Libertarian, that was a truly beautiful post. I’m all teary-eyed now.
Phil, I don’t know you very well, but having met you more than once, I can say that you are most certainly not unlikable, or stupid, or untalented. You most certainly have faults, and weaknesses, and make mistakes, as do all human beings, but that hardly makes you a failure. I think you just need to take a hard look at yourself and figure out what mistakes can be corrected and what can’t. Fix the things that can be fixed, and let go of the rest. And give yourself a break, for Og’s sake. Everybody fucks up, it’s just what you do about it that matters in the end.
Phil, in the past, you and I have had our differences. There’s no question that you can be a pretty tough debater. That being said, after awhile, as I got to know you better, I like you. I think you’re a pretty good and caring person. You aren’t a horrid person. I also admire you for sticking to your principles and the fact that you stick up for what’s right.
I know what depression is like-lord do I know! I too wish I didn’t have to be on meds. I’ve compared it to having demons inside my brain, and I think that fits. I’m not going to tell you, Hey, you’re great, snap out of it! Even though I think so, I know that it’s not so simple, and that’s one of the things I HATE about being depressed.
All I can say is that you do have the support of the SDMB, and that of your loved ones. And you CAN lick this. It’s tough-but you can do it. And we’re here if you need us, obviously.
I’m not much for advice for these kinds of things. Every mind and its brain (or vice versa) is wired up differently, so advice always ends up sounding a little silly, the equivalent of “put some ice on it, tape it up, and walk it off.”
First Noble Truth and “life is pain, highness. Anyone who says different is trying to sell you something.” And I’ve got nothing to sell here because the problem is, I’m a consumer. I’m in the market for intelligent, articulate writing, and pldennison, ltd., is one of the most consistent producers of it. The source being troubled by a self-hatred-depression cycle is troubling, sort of like hearing the owner of one of your favorite brands just chose Arthur Anderson as its financial consultant.
So, er. Put some ice on…ah, screw it. Work on feeling better.
Thanks, everyone, for your comments and support. They’re helpful, in many ways, being told I’m not alone. Of course, it also tells me that I’m nearly as nuts as I think I am, and that my self-image is not the same as how other perceive me. I swear, I really hate this self-loathing feeling, this feeling that I’m just a total dick, and a fraud, and a failure.
What Lux Fiat describes above–that describes just about every single day with me. Not just the thread that RTFirefly linked to above, but everything else I’ve ever done. I can’t seem to come to terms with where my life is, how it’s gotten there, how I behave, or anything else.
I was sitting here reading the board last night, and I saw a post by a longtime reg that seemed to me inconsistent with what this other person had said in another thread that same day. I was going to start a thread about it and call attention to it. And then I thought, what the hell is wrong with me? What the hell would it gain me, except the smug self-satisfaction of calling someone else a hypocrite and being hurtful for no good reason? Rather than embarrass that person, it would just embarrass me and create bad feelings. Why would I want to do that, especially when I have no particular grudge with this person?
For the last four or five days, I’ve felt on the verge of tears about 24 hours a day. I don’t know if I’ve peaked on the meds or something; I’ve been on this scrip for around a year now, maybe I need to try something else or take the dosage down or something. I just want to not feel like this all the time anymore. I want to not alienate or run away from everyone in my life, and not piss off everyone online.
Thank you all, again, for giving me a forum to vent this crap, and making me feel like I’m not just pissing in the wind. It sounds really cheesy and smarmy, but I really do value the SDMB and the things I learn from people here very much. The number of different ideas and people I’ve been exposed to mean a lot to me, even if my responses to them are often dickish. I can’t say I don’t mean to be that way, exactly, but I don’t like that I mean to do it.
[off topic]
this is my first post in SDMB. i have been reading some threads in GD and the pit for the last 2 days and until now, the mix of awe/intimidation most of the posters here made me feel was the major reason i didn’t participate until now. but there is always a time when the excruciating sun heat of desire defeats the fear of the freezing water of contempt. god…this metaphor sucked. let me try another: I feel like a teenage geek that is about to propose to the head cheerleader of his school. there, this one sounds better. time to jump into the wat…err…the cheerl…ah screw it!
[off topic]
i have been depressed before for many of the reasons you cite. i wanted to talk a little bit about hypocrisy. these are the people you will find:
natural hypocrites: they never say anything that they know would harm them. they do not expect anyone to act differently and for that reason, they do not give much credit to what people say but instead try to obtain that information via complex strategies (many of which i am allergic to).
Example:
Jennifer says : oh, what a lovely sofa you have here!
Jennifer thinks: look at this abomination. i can’t believe how pathetic her taste is.
Lucy Lu says : thank you! isn’t it adorable? how are the kids doing in school?
Lucy Lu thinks: dying with envy, eh arrogant bitch? now let’s see how you handle the arrest of your 16 years old Devil spawn for posession.
partial hypocrites: those are the ones who will profess beliefs/opinions/morals without sticking to them. they are, ipso facto lying (consciously or not) to other people. they will not however assume the other party is lying to them.
Example:
Joe: i have no bias whatsoever against black people. many of my friends at work are black.
Joe to his daughter: you didn’t tell me your boyfriend was BLACK!
self-conscious hypocrites: they will profess a beliefs/opinions/morals but will not always abide by them. they know it and feel guilty for it. those would gladly pay for a pill that would give them the strenght/valor to be 100% true to what they think is right.
Example:
phil
and then you have the saints/fanatics/simpleminded which are off the charts.
i did not adress the other issues you are having because:
1- either it’s bullshit. saying you are stupid when all the testimonies assure you’re not. not to mention that stupid people don’t use the word “garner”. you blew your cover buddy 
2- either other people adressed them flawlessly before i did
3- because it took me a goddamn hour and a half to write these few words in a way that would make me seem a little smarter than i really am.
so there. now be happy dammit!
Phil, I like you. You are full of piss and vinegar sometimes, but so are a lot of us.
I think it’s obvious that this is a depression thing. And when you’re depressed, all bets are off. Everything’s off.
One comment I’d like to address was the thing about being “untalented”. The thing is, it’s hard to be talented when you’re depressed.
When I went through a profound depression years ago, (after my dad’s death) I could NOT draw or paint. And I grew up drawing and painting. I loved it. But for that year, I just couldn’t do it. Depression kills that part of you.
But even more than that, it is my firm opinion that “talent” is overrated anyway. I suppose I was “born” with certain talents (or inclinations, really), but the reason I am as good at some of them as I am today is because I was enthusiastic, and shameless. I didn’t care if I sucked really bad, I just kept plugging away (even if I was sometimes the worst in my class!). And, I was always enthusiastic. Thrilled, happy, rabid, almost elated in pursuing a particular talent or skill. But, when you’re depressed, it’s hard to be enthusiastic, elated or shameless. Depression kills that part of you.
I hate hearing people say how they aren’t talented. I HATE it. It really bothers me. Everyone has a talent. I like to relate my pottery story: When I started out in pottery class, I truly sucked. So terribly, terribly bad. And it was even more difficult when I saw everyone else doing so well. But I didn’t give up, worked extra hard, and eventually, I got better. So much better, that my pottery has been in art shows and galleries. No one would believe that I started out in pottery with no “talent”. So, don’t give me this bullshit about having no “talent”. There are different kinds of talent, and many talents are buried inside you, and need some TLC and enthusiasm to be drawn out.
My good thoughts are with you. And, I also must confess, I’ve felt the same mind-numbing depression and self-loathing as you are experiencing. It’s the depression speaking, it’s not you.
pld
Just to second those who have made note of the “stupid” thing. If there’s one thing that is beyond obvious to those familiar with your posts, it is that you are not stupid. This suggests that your judgements about yourself are being made out of emotion - depression - not reason. And likely the others, that we can’t judge well enough, are also overly harsh.
(Interestingly, I found your debating style to be gratingly acerbic the first couple of times we tangled, but not since then. I don’t know if you’ve changed or if I’ve gotten more used to the style. Or something).
Other advice: one thing Bill Clinton supposedly got from his mother that helped him cope with hard times that he has gone through - just keep moving forward. Don’t let your feelings affect your actions. Just go through the motions of being productive in your personal and professional life, one small action at a time. It won’t help you in the short run, but at least your current mental state won’t have a snowball affect and ruin your life.
No guarantee that you’ll ever reach the true Promised Land in which you will experience only unbridled happiness, but better times will surely come.