"I have a headache"="I want sex." Black is white, up is down ...

The BBQ Pit
41

Did you read the OP? This is hardly what he’s asking for. He’s asking for a little clarity, so that he knows when would be a good time to initiate sex. Turn your own argument around for a second and think of it from the perspective of Drastic’s second scenario above. Say Sauron initiates sex whenever the mood strikes him. One of two situations will result. Either he’ll get rejected a lot, or his SO will submit to his attentions, but will become increasingly annoyed because he’s now initiating sex too much. How is this a better situation? How does this improve anything for either person?

Geobabe said it best earlier. Guys can’t read women’s minds, any more than women can read guy’s minds. If a woman is in the mood for sex, it’s up to her to communicate that in some way. The issue is not sex, it’s comunication – she was communicating poorly and the message was not getting through. There are other, better ways for her to communicate her desires to him, and none of them involve standing at a man’s elbow and yelling at him.

Unless that’s your thing, of course. :smiley:

The point is, my wife and I have found that this sort of thing can be fun. If my wife is busy and I want some attention, I might walk out into the living room starkers and tell her goodnight. It’s a bit of risk of rejection on my part,but it generally has the desired effect. Similarly, she has lots of fun ways to let me know what she wants, some without ever having to say a word.

This isn’t about expressing annoyance with your mate – I’d say it’s about communicating more clearly, and maybe even having some fun with it. What’s wrong with that?

Again, re-read the OP. He doesn’t have a problem with her using her toy, and he’s even enjoyed helping her with it.

He’d rather she communicated with him beforehand than complaining about it afterwards, using the vibrator like a weapon rather than something that gives pleasure (there’s an image!). Honestly, the thing with the vibrator strikes me as petty on her part. Did she use it just to throw the fact that she used it in his face? Perhaps if her “hints” weren’t too obscure to be understood, she wouldn’t have to do that… or maybe she would. But why use it against him like that? That’s just mean-spirited, really.

42

Well, there’s your problem right there!

That’ll be $69.99 for parts and labor.

43

This, too, is part of our communication problem, I think. I mentioned earlier that my wife is very guy-like, and I’m not. She’s much more likely to want a quick five-minute, mindless sex session, after which she can roll over and fall asleep. Whereas I’m much more likely to buy some flowers, cook dinner, give her a long leisurely back rub followed by a slow session of lovemaking. We’re both weird, but at least we know it. :slight_smile:

I think this is more to the root of the problem. Although we’ve been married for almost three years now, my wife is still accustomed to seeing sex in the way she knew it before marrying me – the male demands it basically all the time, regardless of the female’s feelings, and the female has to fend off his near-constant advances. I’ve never subscribed to that mindset. If I go two weeks without trying to initiate anything, in her mind I don’t find her desirable, despite whatever signals she’s throwing out. At least, I think that’s the situation.

You’re both right and wrong here, I believe. My wife would likely be perfectly content if romance reared its ugly head about once a year. I’m the romantic devil of the couple. But I think the attention aspect is right on target.

This nails it (pardon the pun). For my wife, sex has always been readily available to her; she’s quite attractive, and her relationships in the past tended to be focused a bit more on the physical side rather than the mental or physical. Perversely, though, she says that before me she never really enjoyed sex that much. (I know, I know, but it makes me feel good, so I’m not arguing the point at all.)

I think the whole thing boils down to her expecting me to disregard what she says about her mood/feelings in some cases, because that’s what she’s been accustomed to in the past. I’m wired differently, though, and I don’t want to impose my selfish desires on her if she’s not feeling well. Drastic said it best, I think – this is a passing blip of friction. By no means is it the first anger/frustration based on a lack of communication in our relationship, but I think we’re slowly learning.

44

Old joke:

A man comes to bed carrying two aspirin and a glass of water. He hands them to his wife, who is in bed reading a book.

“What’s this for?” she asks. “I don’t have a headache.”

“Gotcha!” says the man.

45

Find some kind of cute code word or phrase that you can use to describe sex, if you don’t want to be blatant about it for various reasons (creates pressure, not romantic, whatever) - something that you and your wife both find fitting. Then use that when you want to hint at having sex, or “test the waters” to see if she’s interested. Alternately, if your wife really does get headache relief from sex, try asking if she needs some “extra-special tender loving care” or something similar. This way you don’t have to feel bad about sounding vulgar/neanderthalish, and she can see that you’re still interested but not being pushy.

For instance, my husband and I appropriated the word “snugglebunnies” from a particular “Bloom County” comic strip, as we’re both big fans of it. (There was one particular strip where Milo and Binkley, IIRC, discover that the comic strip syndicate thinks “snugglebunnies” is a vile word. They laugh at the thought and begin shouting it repeatedly, and the last panel shows the strip being shut down.) The term makes me giggle, but we’re very playful by nature anyway, so it lets one of us tell the other what they’re interested in/might be looking forward to after we get home from work/etc. without sounding too pushy.

46

[homer]
Communication. That’s the problem with marriages today Marge, too much communication.
[/homer]

47

I am, of course, not saying this is definitely it, but it was the first thing that came to mind when I read this. And I do believe codes are necessary at home when you have kids, which Sauron mentioned in the OP. I don’t know, of course, whether or not they were around.

48

My wife is often grouchy. Over our 38 years, we eventually worked out arrangements where sex can nevertheless be initiated, unless she’s feeling particularly bad. It wasn’t always easy.

In some cases, the “doubletalk” can be explained by her irritability. Irritability sometimes makes my wife not want to have sex (or appear that way); and irritability also leads her to complain when I make the “wrong” decision. At those times, I remind myself that the fundamental problem is that she’s in a bad mood.

Are you justified in feeling hurt? No. Your wife has this characteristic. The two of you just have to figure out how to deal with it. Good luck.

49

I feel this is an unfortunate truth. [emphatic cough]
My wife and I have been together for more that eight years, and she has always been the hornball. I, on the other hand, am, well, not.

While I don’t say I have a headache, I do have serious back problems that leae me both in something less than “the mood” and in quite a bit of discomfort - especially when trying to perform in such a back-using manner.

While I know for a fact these things leave her feeling unfulfilled much of the time, I honestly don’t think I could keep up with her healthy.

At any rate, I may still be fortunate in the fact that she has never been one for subtlety.

Our overtures usually have as much romance and guess-work as a knightly challenge. I.E. - SMACK with the gauntlet.

She: I want you.

Or me: You feel like having sex?
Hey, it works.

50

While you’re probably right, I have to question this paragraph. Because my wife acts a certain way a small portion of the time, I’m not justified in being hurt or frustrated by her behavior? That makes no sense to me.

As an example, I have a habit of whistling. Quick snatches of tunes, the Andy Griffith Show theme, stuff like that. My wife hates it. So, over the past three years, I’ve done my dead-level best to avoid whistling around her. In other words, I changed the behavior I knew she didn’t like.

It sounds like you’re saying I should suck it up and deal with an extremely circuitous and misleading method of communication, rather than trying to change the method of communication so it’s not so confusing. I don’t understand that approach.

51

I’m not clear what you mean. It may be that you and I are actually agreeing.

I am saying that it won’t help to make your wife wrong. Your wife’s criticsm may be in some sense “unjustified.” And, you may be “justified” in feeling hurt. My suggestion is to set aside questions of who’s right and who’s wrong. Instead, I suggest you and your wife jointly change the method of communication to one that better serves the two of you. This can best be accomplished ISTM by accepting her headaches as a given and looking for methods of communication that will work nevertheless.

It’s hard to do this type of joint exercise in a spirit of fault-finding. Blame engenders defensiveness. As a practical matter, I think you and she can make more progress in a spirit of acceptance and cooperation.

52

Ah. I gotcha. That makes sense.

I’m not looking for a reason to go screaming to my wife and tell her she’s wrong. The episode left me frustrated and angry, and I wasn’t sure if I should be feeling that way. (It’s entirely possible I was just stupid. That’s the usual case.) I guess I was looking to see if my reaction was understandable to others.

My overall philosophy on arguments with the wife is “If you win, you still lose.” So I try to avoid creating situations with an obvious winner and loser. I’m not nearly successful enough, but sometimes it helps.

53

Sauron, I just want to say it sounds - to me at least - like you are too willing to take all the blame yourself.

That is to say, I do agree with december that pointing fingers is not the way to go, but your last comment made it sound as though you’d much rather call yourself a “stupid man” and assume you were in the wrong than start to think any of this is your wife’s doing.

While admirable that you love your wife so much you’re willing to blame yourself rather than her, it also starts to drag you down and hurt your ability to see your marital confrontations in an unbiased manner.

Blame no one. As a couple, you are a “we” and problems should be layed out and discussed between you.

Obviously this does not apply to some things, such as your forgetting to pay the bills on time or some such, but as far as communications go, IMO, there shouldn’t be a reason to assume you or she is completely in the wrong.

Years ago, I blamed myself for every argument we got into, and all it did was constantly make me afraid of saying the wrong thing or upsetting her with any action under the sun.

As odd as it may sound, a little dispassionate logic applied to problem-solving isn’t bad.

Put all your problems on the table, discuss ways to rectify them, loose some tention and go have make-up sex.

IMO, as I said.

54

Gorgon and december speak wisely. Though it sounds like your wife is the one at fault, there really should be no blame at all here. The fact is that there is a problem that needs to be solved, and a teeny bit of non-judgemental communication will clear it all up.

But I have to say one thing – the next time my girlfriend says “Get over here and get naked, I want to play with your enormous member that’s so large that the SDMB people should be really impressed and send you cash gifts”, I’ll be sure to get her some Tylenol.

55

Thanks, Gorgon Heap and tdn. I’m honestly not looking to cast blame anywhere, on me or her. I was hoping to see if my reactions to the situation were understandable, and gain some dispassionate insight into the situation from the Dopers before I went home and hacked her into little pieces that I would then mail to Jamaica.

For the record, I’m not really a stupid man.

But I do play one on TV.

56

mmmm Hmmmmm, which is why in my original post I STATED next to my statement, and I quote “This is oversimplistic and a generalization in the interest of not typing a communications manual” (or something to that effect :slight_smile: )

57

I know… I guess I just wanted to expand on that point. Sorry I didn’t make it clear, I wasn’t coming down on you.

58

I think CCL had a good point, and she said what I meant much better than I did, and proved my point (my M/V reference notwithstanding) much better than I did, and your reaction to her post proved our point as well.

Now, Sauron has already said that he and his wife generally communicate pretty well, but CCL nailed it on the head when she said “having to request sex” can feel like a failure on the woman’s part to the woman. It’s las if, if I have to ask, he must not want me (WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS ACTUALLY TRUE, it can still FEEL like that).

As to her communicating “poorly” I disagree with that terminology, she was communicating in a way that didn’t make sense to HIM. That doesn’t necessarily denote “poorly”.

Though I agree that the headache=sex thing is a bit odd, I can totally relate to her wish that sauron Spontaneously show her that she’s still sexy, desireable etc.

In other words if you have to ASK, it kindof doesn’t “count,” it’s as if you know and he knows that he’s doing it because you had to ask, not because he was overcome with lust for you.

Now, I know that I’m going to get jumped on here, so let me “pre-defend” myself and other women like me.

Just because this desire to be cherished, desired, lusted after without having to tell the guy that you want those things is confusing to you guys does NOT mean that we:

a) do it on purpose to confuse you
b) aren’t aware that it doesn’t make sense to you guys
c) we don’t try NOT to do it too often
d) We think it’s the “right” way to communicate

But for a guy to say something like “well, just communicate better” does NOT make the desire and feelings to have our man just spontaneously and without a prior request, suddenly lust after and jump on us go away.

Also that desire for the man to “just know” isn’t wrong in and of itself. It’s a feeling, a wish, a desire, a romantic whim.

Now, if a woman INSISTS on “making the man read her mind” and provide her with sex when she feels like it and doesn’t communicate it, Yes, I agree, that’s not fair.

But guys, we DO still dream about being swept off of our feet. We do dream about him “just knowing” and having his way with us.

Yes, do be patient and ask us what the heck we’re talking about. But don’t make us “wrong” for desiring the romance.

59

LOL! That’s okay, the mmmm hmmm was an “I’m a silly girl mmmm hmmm,” hence the smilie.

Besides, this is a touchy subject (oh, Pun SOOO intended here, hehe), so some communications breakdowns, especially in this medium are to be expected.

60

Seems to me if she was in the mood for sex she should have done something to make it happen, rather than getting annoyed because you were not doing something to make it happen.