If you renege, it will only get worse. I’ve also followed all your other threads about this situation, and you’re ABSOLUTELY doing the RIGHT thing. Stick to your guns, and let him grow up.
Let him go, Isabelle. I agree with everyone else who says he needs a healthy dose of reality. He’s been walking all over you; if you back down now, not only will this behavior continue, it will most likely get worse. I can’t imagine how heartbreaking it must be for you to believe that he could end up in jail; but you can’t save him from that, and if you try, it seems like you’ll be pulling yourself down with him. Give him a chance to see what living in the “real world” is like. He may very well change his tune!
I will say a prayer for you and your family!
I know it’s difficult for you, but don’t renege. The kid needs a wake up call, and better now while he’s still 17 and will be cut a bit of legal slack if he gets in real trouble.
You probably should talk to his probation officer, if just to report that he’s left home. The probation officer may be able to tell you exactly what your legal responsibilities are.
Isabelle, you need to tell his probation officer. Is he following any of the conditions of his release (or order of assignment?) I understand he hates probation. Well, no kidding. Probation isn’t something anyone would want to be on. Has he tried to figure out if he follows his probation it will go easier on him?
His officer may be able to help you. Working in a juvenile probation office, I have to say that the officers here really do try to help the kids. I do know they would not be happy to find out one of their 17 yr old clients was living with a couple of friends who are older than him. They’d not allow it. Period.
Since getting out of jail in Feb he has been on INTENSE PROBATION. That means the cops come to my house every other day and check that he is in the house (curfew 8PM) they give him random drug tests and random times search the bedroom (and often scan the house) This has been a royal pain in my ass. Not only am I humiliated that my neighbors see the cops at my house all the time but they come at wierd hours. They don’t come at 8:05PM the other night they came at 10:45pm. They disrupt my family life and I am sick of it.
We just went to court 2 weeks ago and because he has adhered to his probation rules and regulations and continually passed his drug tests the judge granted that he be put on POST PROBATION.
This means he will have to report once a week to a probation officer. I do NOT know who the new probation officer is. I called the old one and I was told that I would be informed maybe next week.
I have not told the probation officer of my troubles with him…not doing chores…not being responsible because in the end I ill end up back in court. I have taken so much time off from work to be in court for him that I could lose my job.
This is a tough situation Isabelle, how can he move out if he is still technically a minor and on probation?
If he violates does he have an extended sentence? Sounds like he needs a swift dose of tough love. Sometimes it is the only thing that works for kids like him. Hopefully he’ll be able to pick himself back up and make something of himself. My thoughts are with you…
This is a tough situation Isabelle, how can he move out if he is still technically a minor and on probation?
--------Technically I can not kick him out because he is a minor.
I don’t know if him being on probation has anything to do with his capability to move out.
If he violates does he have an extended sentence?
-----Yes. Depending on the severity of the violation he can be put back on INTENSE PROBATION or he could go back to the juvenile jail facility for a length of time or end up in the county lock up.
BTW I have to PAY when he is in jail!!! Whoever heard of that before? His jail bill is over $2K!!!
Sounds like he needs a swift dose of tough love.
----Or a kick in the butt
Thanks to everyone for prayers and kind thoughts.
I’m not certain what state you live in, Isabelle, but have you looked into juvenile emancipation? Try a google search, there are lots of hits.
Look for a free/low cost lawyer service in your area, to get advice about your situation. Social services in your area may be able to point you in the right direction.
IANAL, so maybe some of the lawyers around here can answer - but can your son, being a minor, even sign a legally binding contract without parent/guardian consent (or emancipation)? Would you, as the legal parent, end up responsible for the contract - such as if he signs a rent contract and trashes the place, could the landlord come after you? Even if he’s not on the lease - could the roommates who are take you to small claims court? I think you should talk to a lawyer - ASAP.
You’re in a terrible, terrible situation. My deepest sympathies go out to you!
~hugs Isabelle~
Only so much of jail is covered by the state. Booking, clothes, most toiletries, shoes, extras like books and snack food all end up being paid for by the prisoner.
Isabelle are you in Arizona? I’ve only heard of paying for jail in AZ. Sherriff Arpaio is one tough dude.
Isabelle , check with a lawyer about emancipating the kid. I had a coworker who had a similarly difficult daughter. She moved out at 17 and he emancipated her so that he wouldn’t be responsible for her.
Good luck with everything.
MA and RI charge for a lot of in jail stuff too Phlosphr. I think Isabelle is in FL though. (Not sure why … mebbe from another thread)
Nope I am not in Arizona, I am in Florida.
My friend’s brother was drunk and crashed into a house killing a father of 5 children. He was sentenced to jail (this is in WI) he is NOT required to pay any jail fees. He is getting free programs while in jail such as AA, College classes, and cousneling.
Why should I have to pay? For cripes sake I pay lots of taxes!!
In a perfect world, I’d say allow him to move on out, as painful as it would be. If he attempted to continue his lifestyle on his own only to find out that not everyone loves him as much (& that because of that, won’t give him nearly as much slack) as his mommy does… Well, that could be just the kick in the ass that he needs.
In the real world, he’s not yet a legal adult: I would report his drinking & such to his P.O. I have no idea what responsibility the parent of a minor might bear if said parent knows/ has a suspicion that the kid’s violating & doesn’t report it. You gotta look out for yourself in this.
I’d also inquire, as others have suggested, as to what legal responsibilities you have towards your kid until he reaches the magical age.
If everything works out so that you won’t get in legal hot water for allowing him to move, let the plan go forth despite the fact that it’ll be emotionally trying. As a single 20-something, I’ve been told that part of being a parent is allowing your kid to make his/her own mistakes, and allowing them to make amends for those mistakes on their own as well.
I wish you & your kid luck in getting through this.
I agree. If you cave, he will continue to manipulate you for as long as it works.
How’s he gonna buy a car? No sane dealer is going to sign any kind of contract with a 17 year old. Do NOT let him do this, as YOU are responsible if he mows down a troop of Girl Scouts while out cruisin’… and if he does it anyway, well, you didn’t know, and you can’t be held responsible if HE obtains a car somehow without your knowledge or consent and does something stupid in it.
…but if he were in my house, I’d turn his ass in, no matter whose kid he is. He sounds like someone who is going down, and is likely going to take someone with him. This can be hard, turning your back on someone you love… but if you can’t do anything for them, you can’t do anything for them. Getting burned on their behalf won’t improve anything.
Isabelle-
Let me speak from experience (personal…no ‘Friend of a Friend’ crap) when I say that you definitely should call his probation officer, publish something that attempts to absolve you of responsibility for his actions, take the damn phone, and stand firm.
Either he’ll get it or he won’t. And there’s nothing you can do about it. He’s old enough to screw himself up.
I got lucky enough to benefit from some harsh treatment both from cops and life in my mid to late teens. But I know all too well that many don’t.
But what you’re doing now isn’t preparing him for the world, is it?
Therefore, it’s time to throw him in and hope he floats.
Isabelle,
My heart goes out to you. How heartbreaking. I cannot imagine how painful this is. hugs I think you’re now at a stage where you have no choice other than playing hardball.
My first thought was emancipation. It’s pretty clear that you cannot let your son live away from home if you’re still legally responsible for him. Potential trouble that he could cause could jepoardize your whole family. It’s not fair to risk the well being of yourself and the other younger children for the sake of the older one who doesn’t seem to care about how his decisions affect them. If you can’t get a legal emancipation from your son, the do NOT let him move out. Tell him --why-- you have changed your mind, that it’s because you are unwilling to handle the financial risk.
My second thought is that if your son is still a minor, you may have the right to collect his wages on his behalf. If you can, I think that you should. Since your son is unwilling to reimburse you, do it for him. Also, while you’re on the phone with his employer… is it the case that he’s been drinking on the job? If so you may point out that if the employer is allowing that on the premises, it may be a legal liability for them as well.
Thirdly, how about switching the cell phone plan to one where you get X amount of minutes per month, and after that it is unusable until you pay the bill.
You are correct that he is using emotional blackmail to manipulate you. I’m just so sorry to hear that you have these problems.
Best of luck for a resolution you can live with.
Oh Isabelle, I’m sorry to hear about your troubles.
IANAL, but if I recall correctly, Vevila was right. You are fiscally responsible for any child until they reach the age of 18. This means that if he bounces any checks, fails to pay his cell phone bill or rent, misses a car payment, etc., his creditors can come back to you and demand payment.
I wish you the best of luck in what is undoubtedly one of the stickiest situations I can imagine.
My heart bleeds for you, Isabelle. You are truly caught between the devil and the deep blue sea: you love and want the best for your son yet he spurns your efforts.
Unfortunately, you’ve painted yourself into a corner and have left yourself little option but to chuck him out.
If you were in the UK, I’d strongly suggest you speak to Social Services and the Probation Dept.
Is it a condition of his Probation that he resides with you? If so, I suggest you have a word with a sympathetic cop to arrest him shortly after he leaves and offer him the same choice - but not in a way that suggest you’ve set him up.
Hmmm… I’ve heard of children divorcing their parents; can you divorce your child?
Oh yes: change the locks after he goes. I know you said in the other thread that he isn’t a drug addict, but I’m not so sure.
BTW You’ve said that he’s earning $500/week. Presumably his employer is declaring this. What are the IRS going to do? Are you liable? Again a ‘friendly’ chat from an IRS guy may help. You know, “We at the IRS are very pleased that a young man like yourself is doing so well. We’ve just received the quarterly return (or whatever) from (Company name) and we know that a big problem for people such as yourself is saving money to pay for the extra tax due…” It should appear to be a ‘cold call’ - perhaps the taxman could ring and make an appointment (pandering to his ego).
Good luck.
I too have been following your story with this kid.
Call his probation officer.
you should have called the first time he broke the law in your presence.
being in jail isn’t a good learining experience, but knowing that his mother has integrity is a GREAT experience, there’s nothing more important.
Getting him put in jail doesn’t mean you’re against him, it means that you’re going to do the right thing regardless of your personal feelings.
How to approach the topic with your son:
Tell him “hey, have you called your P.O. and told them that you’re moving out? I’m calling them just to make sure I don’t get in trouble for it.” (brace yourself for the yelling) don’t argue back, give him the chance to call, tell him when you’re calling to make sure you’re not puting yourself at risk legally, call when you say you will.
Be prepared to back out of your ultimatum because you did it without investigating your legal responsibilites first. You do that and you’re not being a liar, you’re being responsible.
-What I really think is that your kid knows you’ll cave and let him walk all over you or he’ll move out and be out of your relationship which I maintain is too intense for a healthy mother son thing, I think I explained this in another thread.
good luck.