Sorry, forgot something.
IF it’s legal for him to move out and his P.O. doesn’t mind, let him, and make clear your stance on the relationship. “I’ll always be here if you change your mind” or some other expression that clearly states your position on the matter.
Then let him go, and pray.
I mentioned this in the last thread.
I vote you let him go. If you can’t bring yourself to emancipate him, show him how things really are. No money can mean a lot of things.
In his case… No apartment. No car. No phone. No booze. No fun.
A sharp slap of reality is often quite sobering.
Isabelle, at the rate he’s going, your son is up for a harsh learning experience one way or another, namely that actions have consequences. By all means look into getting him declared an emancipated minor. It sounds like he’ll be all for that, since it means he’ll officially be an adult, and I suspect he’s expecting only positive consequences. If he hates being on probation and doing community service, what I’d do is point out to him that he shouldn’t have gone joyriding, especially the third time, given what happened the second time.
If it is legally impractical to require him to move out, I’d see about getting his paycheck turned over directly to you, telling him that you’re doing so and why you’re doing it. Point out to him that you set certain rules and conditions and that it was his choice to break those rules, just as it was his choice to break the law earlier. He is responsible for the consequences of those choices. It may indeed stink, but what stinks is the mess he made, not you. If he objects to the stench, it’s up to him to clean it up.
Be strong. Call on that faith you profess to strengthen you (it’s worked for me a time or two), but do stand your ground. For you, I’ll recommend Romans 5:3-4, "we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. " I wasn’t exactly thrilled to find suffering builds character in the Bible either, but there it is. :rolleyes: The thing is, you can’t always protect him from the consequences of his actions.
Good luck,
CJ
Given the binds you are in, call his last probation officer, say he’s basically out of your control (nice short sentence that), and ask what you can do. Tell him emancipation has been suggested.
Emancipation; shutting off the cell phone and letting him buy his own; other separations where you are not re$ponsible for his actions are very functional.
If he bangs into reality and gets bruised at this age, it will do him far less harm than if he does it later.
And he might find he can swim, and nothing would be better for his character, and for his relationship with his family.
I like the idea bout asking the kid if he’s called the PO about moving out. Puts the responciblity where it belongs, right on him.
Make sure that your legal position is all in the black. You don’t want to get burned on this, any of it. If he was released into your custody, that means that you are responcible for his behavior, and in the eyes of the court, his illegal behavior is your legal problem. Report him. Don’t let yourself sink on this.
See if you can garner his wages for his jail bill, his driving classes, all of it. Also get the cell phone back, even if it means cancelling it. He’s simply not responcible enough for a contract like that.
Get educated about what you need to do legally. If you have to have him live with you, tell him that he can’t move out and why. If he can legally move out, get his butt emancipated and let him go. Preferably before he pulls you down with him, and after he’s paid his jail bill.
I agree with everybody here, with one exception, which I’ll get to.
Cry now. Make sure you don’t have any tears left when he comes back and tries to manipulate you again.
And he will.
Which is where I disagree, at least in part:
In my experience, the mother who’s willing to give up everything for her kid winds up, in fact, giving up everything. If you’re going to offer an “I’ll always be here” sentiment, it must come with conditions.
That’s why I say, Cry now, because if you’re going to do this you need to commit. Not just legally (pursuing the emancipation option), not just logistically (cutting off the cell phone), but emotionally. You’ve given him every chance. Something is wrong, but he’s the one who needs to figure it out and come to terms with it. You can’t live his life.
If the original door is open, even a crack, then there’s a chance you’ll let him come back through it. You need to close and lock that door completely. You can let him know there’s another door, but it’s a totally different one; it will come with a written and legally enforceable contract of expectations, including (I would suggest) psychological or psychiatric counseling, with a no-exceptions clause for immediate eviction upon the first breach.
If he does this, he may end up homeless. He may end up in prison. He may end up dead. But the life is his to lead, and the choices are his to make. If you leave open the option of returning without closing out the original emotional commitment, then one day you’ll come home and he’ll be gone with your television and your jewelry. (Which reminds me: Change your locks, too.)
So that’s why I say… cry now.
I feel worse for your situation than you can imagine. I’m so terribly sorry you have to be going through it. From some personal experience which I won’t describe out of respect for the privacy of some people I know, I can identify with your circumstances. That’s why I led off with the harsh real-world stuff above, and saved the sympathy for the end. You strike me as a smart, sensitive, and compassionate person, and you don’t deserve this shit. It’s a terrible thing when a son goes wrong. I’m so, so sorry it’s happening to you.
So… cry now, and let him go to screw up his own life. Otherwise he’ll take you with him.
Lilacs and Jonathan Chance gave you great advice - make sure you work with the probation office. You do not want them showing up at your workplace when they can’t’ find him!
He is underage so, as far as most laws go, you’re responsible.
Very sorry.
I hope in a few years this is all a dim memory.
One question - how long has he had this job? If he’s so irresponsible, how has he held onto it? His ability to keep this job while screwing up the rest of his life make me think he’s perfectly happy with the screw-ups and isn’t even trying to control those aspects of his life.
For the love of God, don’t renege. All that will do is teach him that no matter what he does, you’re guaranteed to be a Grade A sucker he can take for as much as he needs.
He’s moving, and you’ll no longer be talking to each other – that’s his choice. Cut off the cel phone (he wants it he can pay for his own service), change the locks, talk to his probation officer, do whatever you can to make it so the mistakes he’s going to make don’t bite you more than they bite him.
I bet he thinks he’s all grown up now. It’s time for him to see if he’s right. I’m sorry it has to be this way, and I know it’s going to be horribly rough on you, but whatever you do hold firm. Who knows, maybe he’ll get dumped on his ass and wake up to reality before it screws his life up irrevocably.
Don’t let his manipulation work any more. It’ll only make him dig himself deeper. Oh, and put a LoJack on your car, since the boy’s known for joyriding and has said he wants to acquire a car.
I’m sorry you have to go through this. I hope everything works out in the end. 
Oh, Isabelle, what an intolerable situation.
You know what you need to do. Straighten up that backbone and do it. Sometimes our kids don’t learn unless they pee on the electric fence themselves.
Make sure he has no contact with your other children.
Let us know how it goes.
Isabelle, the advice already given is good and I cannot add to it.
Except this.
Don’t be a stanger here. Keep us informed. No, no, not because we want to know. Because you need the outlet and we will try to help you. You do the tough part with your kid, and allow us to do the tough part with you.
We’ll be here for you.
Get him out post-haste. He is full of hatred for you, as is natural for children at that age. What is happening is purely the genetic cnosequences of breeding babies. The stupid jackass will become a loving son again in 5 years or so…
IANAP or a lawyer, but, on this point at least, I feel comfortable offering my opinion: You’re NOT kicking him out, you’re giving him choices - and reasonable ones at that - and he’s CHOSING to move out.
As long as you let him know the door remains open for him to return - under the previously declared conditions, of course - seems like you’re in the clear, legally and morally.
I would also talk with his P.O., once you find out who that is (!).
Whatever the consequences for your son, there may be (direct) consequences for you under the terms of his probation (released to your custody, etc.) if you don’t tell them what’s going on.
My other thoughts are around how are the other, younger children seeing this, and how will they act in the future if you don’t go through with your commitment.
So, to jump on a lot of other bandwagons,
[Dr. Phil] It’s gonna get worse before it gets better. [/Dr. Phil]
{{{Isabelle}}} and strength.
Question-can you have him put into foster care? Or in a home for troubled teens?
He sounds like a perfect canidate for the military, I would suggest he join. The military will give him structure, discipline, food, shelter, and a little spending money. Not to mention learning a skill that he can make a career out of. The alternatives don’t look too bright.
I joined the Navy straight out of high school because I had the forethought in my Junior year that I’d be a failure in college. I was lazy, a poor student and didn’t like the possibility of sacking grocerys for a living.
Roughly a year and a half later, and after the hardest studying of my life, I graduated an advanced electronics course and was an Electronic Technician in the U.S. Navy. I went home before leaving to Japan for 3 years to see my family and friends. None of my close friends had gone to college. They were basically a bunch of bums living at home with Mom and Dad.
Just an idea. Best of luck in making the right choices, whatever they may be.
Having read some of your other posts regarding you son, I’d go along with the suggestion to call the probation officer, tell him your son is out of control and you’re at your wit’s end, and ask him for help. You’ve never answered whether or not he’s enrolled in school during the school year. If he is, I’d advise you to talk to the counselors there for advice also. If he’s not, then that’s something that should be adressed as well, I think.
The cell phone is in your name. Take it away. Cancel it or keep it for your own usage but don’t allow him to rack up these huge bills with it. As it’s in your name, you’re the one legally responsible for the bills. Perhaps he could prepay you 700 or so a month for it’s usage, if it’s a real necessity for him to have it and you feel canceling it isn’t an option.
Remember, whatever you do will set the groundstone for your interactions with your remaining children when they reach this age. All kids are different, of course, but the younger kids may pick up his behavior if something isn’t done. If he were over 18, there is no way I’d advise you to back down on your ultimatum. Because he is still a minor, however, I would have explored every other option before issuing such an ultimatum. The thing is, once you back down from it once, he’ll figure he can walk all over you without any repercussions.
Good luck to all of you.
Hatred’s not the word, he’s confused by a relationship that has boundaries that he doesn’t understand/ can’t handle.
He’ll become a loving son again provided you’re perceived as safe to love. By that I mean you have to be a responsible person, someone he can feel safe around, someone who means what she says, and does what’s right.
If you can’t kick him out legally, then don’t kick him out. If you’ve threatened to do something illegal, take it back and admit you were wrong.
The most important message you can send is that you are a responsible person. This is usually done by sticking to your word, but if your word was irresponsible, well, you’re gonna have to take that one on the chin.
It’s sunday, btw, what happened?