ISTM the issue is less the condition of the house than one of mutual respect. If the parties in a marriage don’t each respect the other, then at least one member of the couple is doomed to long-term unhappiness if things don’t change, either attitudinally or by breaking up.
I’m sorry to hear of your unhappiness purple haze. Sending supporting thoughts your way.
Speaking as the child of divorced parents, if your children are the only thing keeping you in this marriage, you should get a divorce. I’m glad my parents divorced rather than end up like my grandparents - stuck in a miserable marriage “for the kids” and resenting their kids for keeping them there. I understand that there are lots of reasons for staying married, but if you’re only doing it for the kids, I frankly don’t think it’s worth it.
I can’t go here because my fingers would fall off from the typing.
My take on things:
Moving out it not going to solve the problem–and may mess up future child custody issues for you. Don’t do it.
I cannot recommend marital counselling strongly enough–the trick is to find a GOOD one. If you belong to a church or temple, they often keep lists. Be careful–some churches only refer to therapists that agree with their conservative social stance (not all churches, I found a great therapist thru them).
I highly recommend a female therapist-yes, therapy is all about empathy, but I have yet to see a male therapist with a true handle on rug rats and SAHM issues (this will come, I am sure–or maybe I haven’t seen enough therapists!).
I highly doubt hubby will even go–afterall, this is YOUR problem.
I also recommend you getting out to either some volunteer activities or a part time job–it may not pay much, but it will help with the bills and help YOU feel more empowered.
My husband and I have had many problems over the years. I am thankful that he never threw the state of the house when the kids were little into my face. I think it is unforgivable in either spouse when there are small ones.
Get over the house beautiful nonsense already–as long as it’s hygienic, it’s fine. You have literally decades to look forward to of centerpieces and immaculate carpet–this time should be for the kids.
When I hear “she should keep her end up; I’m out earning the bread”; I hear “I don’t see concrete results of her time at home and this bothers me so I’ll glom onto a quantifiable aspect of parenting and hone in on that.”
Did any of you here that want these homes so clean ever stop to ask what was acoomplished on a certain day? Yep, there’s laundry in a pile over there, waiting to be folded–but Jr learned to ride a bike today, or petted a doggie he was scared of or learned to sing a song. Look, she can say her alphabet, Daddy–and guess who’s using the potty? oh, but the family room wasn’t vacuumed…oops.
Noone wants to live in a tip, but some loosening of standards is needed–on both parts.
OK–I’ve said enough.
Er…
How is having a clean house “unhealthy?”
Never mind. Stupid threadjack. But it got me wondering…
Hey Filmore. I’m with you !00%. Been there too.
I’m addressing your post intending no reflection on the OP because it is so relevant to me experience.
My wife was a stay at home Mom for 7 years and God knows I love her but she sucked at it. I would come home from work and dishes were piled on the counter, in the living room etc. I accepted it, but I wasn’t happy. I don’t expect much but if I’m working 8 hours per day plus to keep things going, I expect my spouse to enhance our lives at home. I don’t expect that I HAVE to do anything to make things fair at home.
I spent almost a year as a househusband and I loved it. I’d still do it if my wife could generate the income that I now snare. I made my wife her breakfast (which I still do now that we both work), made her lunch every day, kissed her before she headed for work and came home , tidied up the house every morning within 3 hours, spent a day thouroughly cleaning one room a week, did a laundry every day, got the kids to school and made sure she didn’t have to do a damn thing on weekends and evenings. Oh, I checked the flyers every week, and saved a lot of bucks by planning meals and shopping at at least three different grocery stores. And I paid the bills.
I was damn good at it and still left me a gazillion hours to hang out with friends, read and watch too much TV.
You’ve got to want to be good at it though, a person needs motivation. Mine was to prove to my wife that the load on a stay at home Mom was no big deal. dI’m not sure I succeeded in that regard but we are both a lot happier with two incomes and a messier house.
Wow. That’s all I can say.
Kudos to you for putting the housekeeping in your back pocket like that and all.
But I have to question your motivation. You state your motivation “was to prove to my wife that the load on a stay at home Mom was no big deal.”
I amazed that you are still living. While you were being Felix Unger, did you ever just take time out for the kids? Or can they not picture without a sponge in your hand? And how did wife like not only being so well cared for, but also being made aware of just how inferior and inadequate her lame attempts at it were? on what sounds like a daily basis?
It is possible to slide into sloth as a stay at home parent (note the gender neutral term). Noone will argue with that. But it is also likely that such slovenliness is not what we are talking about here.
Is purple haze a SAHM? I don’t think she mentioned it in her post. It’s not only SAHMs who are often expected to bear the burden of household responsibilities.
You may be Da Man, I don’t know — but infants & toddlers & preschoolers are completely different from 7-yr-olds who spend the day at school. Small children need lots & lots of attention to develop emotionally, intellectually and socially. It takes time, just plain raw time, in addition to boatloads of patience and creativity.
purple haze, I hope you’re having a better day today! Sorry for the hijack! And I tell you what, marriage changes, people change – you can’t possibly be expected to anticipate problems that come up later. My Hubby changed drastically when he finally finished his Ph.D. and went out into “the Real World”. Having kids changes people, too.
I totally agree that the issue is not the cleanliness of the house or the details of the budgeting, but the issue of respect.
After ten years of being treated by my husband without even basic courtesy much of the time – being snapped at when I’d ask him a question, almost never hearing a please or thank you, it finally all came to a head when he was yelling at me about something completely nonsensical, in the middle of it got a business phone call – and instantly was Mr. Calm, Cool, and Collected to his customer on the phone. So I set him a new standard: Treat me with the same courtesy you treat your customers. I know he’s capable of it; he does it all day long, and his customers love him, think he’s a great guy. And I told him that if he wasn’t demonstrating to me that he LIKED me, how could he expect me to like him in return?
Because it had reached the point where I really didn’t like him a whole lot of the time. I felt taken for granted and/or ignored – it’s not exactly demanding a lot to be told when he’s leaving the house, for example; there have been times when I went to talk to him only to find his car gone and no idea where he went or when he’d e back. It’s not demanding a lot to ask to be treated with basic courtesy, i.e. please and thank you when I do something above and beyond. Or even, occasionally, for the normally expected things, like running an errand for him or dealing with the electric company over a bill mixup.
I think it’s unfair to say that you go into marriage, it’s wrong to expect your partner to change. It’s called compromise. I’ve done a lot of compromising over the years; but until we had that talk, there sure wasn’t much coming from his side. But I must say that he’s done a great job of just trying to remember to be as courteous to me as he is to his customers. It’s amazing how much easier it is to deal with issues when you’re both being courteous about it, too! I was lucky that we were able to deal with it without counseling for now, but if things change back, you’d better believe we’ll be heading that way.
So purple haze, I think that marriage counseling is something you guys sound in real need of. You have totally differing expectations of even the most basic stuff, it sounds like, and it often takes a third party to help you find that middle ground. I hope things work out well for you.
She has not said she is a SAHM nor how old her children are. Both fessie and filmore/Dutch have points, but we don’t know if any of them apply here. Its possible Purple has four at home in diapers (fessie, I know - mine are 13 months apart - it will get better in about another year - year and a half), and its possible that her youngest is old enough to make dinner and she spends all day reading romance novels (I doubt it).
Purple, I feel for you. Get counseling, let us know how it goes.
Sorry to hear you’re feeling so low, purple haze. I think a counsellor is right where you should be right now - your husband sounds borderline psychologically abusive. A counsellor should help you sort out what you don’t have to put up with, and how you handle things differently for a better outcome.
Also, have you thought about why your husband is so unhappy? What does he feel like he is missing?
My thoughts exactly.
I coulda swore my wife had joined the boards till that last line.
I made her get rid of the dog.
Here she says she has a couple of kids…
Sounds to me like the husband is looking largely for reasons to criticize. Sounds like a dick to me. Is he a better father than he is a husband? How old are the kids.
Looking after kids is what you make it. If you put housework as your top priority, then you stick them in front of the TV, and train them to be quiet and bask in the glow. If you make the kid’s mental development your top priority, then it can be a twelve hour a day job, with no coffee breaks. Some kids are more demanding than others. You can’t judge without more info.
I just want to thank all of you for your replies. I once read that it’s much better to change things about yourself than it is to change someone else (or something like that).
We have two kids, 16 and 11. 16 year old generates a lot of dishes every day; she eats six meals/snacks a day! And is very slim, as we all are. Genetics. 
The new rule is that everyone does their own dishes, as far as rinsing and putting them in the dishwasher. I still have to remind everyone (including DH) but they do it when I say something. Did you fry that chicken for your lunch? Great! Now clean up the spattered stove, put your dishes in the dishwasher, dispose of the chicken bones… :rolleyes: . That last one was my husband.
Last Saturday I just went up to him and told him that it was time to go through the bills. I put the pile of doom on the kitchen table and went to work. It took 45 minutes, but he did finally get up and join me. We made some decisions together about what to pay and what can wait. Even if I have to prod him, I don’t think it’s too much to ask to do this twice a month to begin with. The alternating weeks I’ll handle it. This has me feeling better already. Now he “owns” these bills with me. Before, the following questions used to drive me nuts;
Why haven’t you paid xxx?
I never have any money!
What are you going to do about xxx? (The electric bill, the phone bill, etc.)
I think knowing absolutely nothing about what our expenses are is just plain childish. Putting it all on me and saying that I have more time to deal with it is just a cop-out. Now that things are organized and filed, it will go faster from now on. Spending 45 minutes twice a month doesn’t take much time. I’m already seeing a difference, as the questions about what I’m going to do about the bills have faded.
Is this a generational (Is that a word?) thing? I get the impression that he wants me to take care of him, like I’m his mom. I’m not, I’m his wife. We should be partners.
I owned my own business until this past June. I sold it, and just recently got a job that begins in a week. Our financial issues should be a thing of the past once I begin getting paychecks again. To me, the main thing with the finances that makes me mad is that I’m not the only adult here. He should have some knowledge of what’s going on. Don’t you think?
The house isn’t bad. Whenever we argue, the subject comes up. I don’t know if he’s trying to avoid what we’re talking about, or what the deal is there. I know that I resent the role of “taking care of him”. And that’s not a good thing.
He is not affectionate at all. No hugging, kissing, touching - nada. It’s a family thing; his family is not demonstrative at all. As far as that goes, it pisses me off. That’s one of the perks of marriage! I have all of my teeth, am not overweight, and shower. It’s just a personality thing, or something. This is not anything new. He never did and probably never will hold my hand in public, put his arm around me, etc. That, more than anything else, bothers me. I don’t know if I’m willing to continue in a marriage without affection.
Thanks to all that replied.
Purple Haze -
Please email me, I have gone through something very similar and would love to help you as best I can. I don’t really want to put everything out here, because a lot of it is personal (and my hubby may swing by sometimes).
Thanks,
Poysyn
Oho-HUGE problem in this house. I have no idea how old you are, but I am in my mid-40’s. Women’s lib apparently didn’t take much with those men born in the early '60’s(generalizing, but still). Yes, mine expects to be taken care of–I’m supposed to anticipate his needs, fill in the blanks, keep his mother happy, you name it. But, if something comes up related to business or his pleasure, my needs go on the back burner. Fuck that. I wouldn’t mind so much if some of it were reciprocated. It’s not–see below comments re: showing affection.
Well, at least you are aware of your feelings–that’s all to the good. I suspect that the resentment would not be so strong or even there, if some of your needs were taken care of, like his are. Seems to me that he’s got the sweet end of the deal here-he doesn’t do much, and then gets to blame you when money is tight. Don’t expect him to change that catbird seat without a fight.
I don’t get the whole dump all the finances on the spouse stuff. I loathe balancing the checkbook, etc, but even I know roughly what is where and how much there is of it. Getting my husband to actually sit down and show me how to access and where the money is is like pulling teeth. IMO, it’s a power play–a control game. It sucks.
Ya know, I went for a walk today with my husband thru some beautiful winter woods. There was zero companionship–there wasn’t even talking. After about 15 minutes of strained convo on my side, I walked for a bit, then asked if there was something wrong. No was the succinct reply.
Hard to dance alone, no?
Anyways, I hear ya on the ban on Public Displays of Affection. I have no desire for blatant displays, but a hand hold or an arm around the shoulder upon occasion is a nice thing. My husband used to do those things. He also used to do alot of things. I think he stopped trying some years ago. Like he didn’t need to bother or something. Yours sounds more like an ingrained thing–don’t know if there is anything you can do about that. Some guys are just like that.
It’s a long, sad, stupid story. I hope your’s turns out better. Glad to hear about the job and the chores etc.
baby steps, just remember that.
Wow. Would you be happier if he made more money? Would you have tried harder to change and please him? Would you mind less that he’s not affectionate?