There’s nothing wrong with having the expectation that your husband would provide a decent standard of living for the family. Unless he’s disabled in some way, it’s perfectly reasonable.
Why don’t you read the whole thread before you comment? Read posts 7 and 37 and then come back and join the discussion.
purple haze, I was in a situation for a long time that sounds similar to yours, except that my ex didn’t complain about the house. When I was a SAHM, no one could complain about my house being dirty but my grandmother, but she mops her kitchen at 6AM most mornings, so I obviously cannot compete with that!
Your most recent post sounds somewhat more hopeful, but I think you have a real problem with the affection problem. It’s hard to date/live with/marry someone when you have vastly different affectionate needs, in my experience. The person who needs that affection feels slighted and the person who needs less affection feels smothered. Have you discussed this with him in detail?
I don’t want to go into a lot of details about my marriage, but I do understand. Email me if you want to talk more, I can at least listen. 
Holy shit! My ex-fiance was a narcissist! Thank you for posting this link. So much is more clear to me now. Wow.
purple haze, if your husband is really a narcissist, he’s never going to change. Even if he’s not, he probably won’t. Get him to go to couples therapy with you. If he won’t, then you have your answer.
I did read the whole thread, but reread posts 7 & 37 for you, just to be sure I didn’t miss something important.
I still come away with serious concerns about the OP’s expectations vs. husband’s expectations. It sounds like the OP knew how much affection to expect from husband before they got married, but is now unsatisfied with what she got. Ergo, husband is a narcissist jerk, OP is victim. They need counseling to “fix” husband.
I hope the OP gets the new job and they make enough money to get a housekeeper and that won’t be an issue, and then they can deal with what is/are probably the more important issues.
I’ve been following this thread, but finding it difficult to say somethng constructive.
The OP’s husband sounds very much like one of my exes. If we had married, I’m pretty sure I would’ve written something similar.
gulp
Your children are 16 and 11. Honestly, I don’t think there is a good excuse for not having a relatively clean house whether or not you are a stay at home mom. The kids and hubby are gone all day and when they are home, they should be picking up after themselves, cleaning their own rooms and bathrooms, etc. If this is not the case, then the OPer needs to establish rules and chores for them so that the entire load falls on her shoulders. It is not just the mother’s job to keep the house clean; It is EVERYONE’s job to keep the house clean. If this isn’t happening, then the OPer needs to establish rules and let the children know what the consequences will be for not following them. Or create a reward system. Whatever works.
Remember, our job as parents includes teaching our children how to care for themselves. The 16 year old will be out of the house in two years. It should not be a culture shock for him to prepare his own meals, do his own laundry, clean his own toilet. Doing everything for him is doing him (and his future spouse) no favors. And an 11 year old can dust, vacuum, clean toilets, make his own lunch, etc.
IMO it is not unreasonable to expect SAHMs to be responsible for other things such as most of the laundry, grocery shopping, paying the bills, gardening, etc. If things at home aren’t being done, it defeats the purpose of having someone stay at home, no? Now what these responsibilities are can be negotiated by both parties. Just sitting down and saying, “Okay, here’s what I agree to do.” is not a bad idea. After all, your husband has agreed (whether it’s vocalized or not) to get up every day and go to work so you all have money to live on. If he missed his work on a regular basis, surely you’d have issues with this. Having a dirty house for a SAHM is the equivalent of missing work.
Re the bills: Balancing the checking account and paying bills does not mean that you should be responsible for creating money out of thin air. If there is a deficit each month it’s not necessarily the bill payer’s fault. Create a budget. List every expense you have and then list your income. If x isn’t covering y, there is a problem. And the solution is something the two of you need to determine. You either cut back expenditures or increase income. There is nothing exceptionally emotional about the process. Have a business meeting if you must, and include the kids if you think they are part of the problem. In other words, treat your job as if it was a job. If you were over budget in corporate America, you wouldn’t cry. You’d hold a meeting and come up with solutions.
Good luck to you.
This bears repeating. My parents stuck together in a miserable marriage for the kids and for appearances. (My dad needed to be a family man for his work.) It wasn’t great for us kids. I don’t know your situation purple haze, so I’m reluctant to tell you to stay or go. Marriage counseling is probably the best first step, though if your husband truly is narcisstic it wont take. All I’m saying is to keep the divorce option open. It will be tough for the kids, but in the long run it might be better for them
I just wanted to clarify this point, because it’s an important one - it’s not that it’s better to change yourself, it’s that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to change others. You cannot change your husband. No one can change anyone else. However, you CAN change what you do, and he will be forced to change how he reacts to you. Dr. Phil says (I know, I know - he does make some excellent points) that you teach people how to treat you.
I would not say that all men born in the 60’s and earlier want to be taken care of by women, but there is a certain element of that in a whole lot of relationships. Women are, by nature, nurturers, and men sometimes seem to take advantage of that. We also have to remember that men aren’t women. A man might think that he loves his wife very much, and he shows her how much he loves her by working hard and providing a comfortable life for her, and he truly doesn’t understand why she keeps harping on him to prove his love for her. In his mind, he thinks he’s proving it every day.
Those of you whose husbands are not physically demonstrative at all, have you discussed this with them (in a non-confrontational way)? I know my husband gets withdrawn and quiet to the point of sullenness sometimes, but it’s just because he’s tired - it’s no reflection on me at all. Throughout our relationship, we have made a point of hugging and kissing hello and good-bye, as the last thing we do when we leave and the first thing we do when we get in. It really helps us remember that whatever else is going on in our lives, we have made a commitment to each other to make the other person and our relationship a priority.
And, I just thought of another point I want to make. Have those of you with relationship problems sat down and taken an honest look at what you are bringing to the relationship? It’s easy to cast ourselves in the role of victim, and everything your husband does just confirms that, because it’s what you’re looking for, but it very rarely is only one member of the couple’s fault when things go badly. Us womenfolk can be just as difficult and demanding as the men. Maybe he criticizes all the time time because it’s the only way to get your attention. Maybe he complains about not having any money because he’s terrified of losing everything, and feels like it’s all his fault and just wants you to comfort and re-assure him.
I’m not saying that the men are not to blame, just that women need to shoulder their own part of the responsibility for the relationship problems if they’re going to work them out. You can’t fix what you don’t acknowledge (Dr. Phil again 
).
Don’t get me wrong, I’m an affectionate girl so I can definitely understand how a lack of affection can make you feel. But you knew he wasn’t overtly affectionate. You admitted it. It doesn’t seem fair that you would divorce him over something that you knew about the day you married him.
I edited this post to be a lot nicer to you than I was originally, simply because I think you’re down enough and I don’t think yelling at you is really going to help. So let me just say that I think this bit, at least, is complete bullshit.
PunditLisa seems smart enough. You should maybe listen to her.
featherlou has some very valid points. That’s why I recommended counselling.
But I can say that I have changed a whole lot and it hasn’t improved things here one bit–if anything, my increasing assertiveness has led to more acting out and resentment/passive-aggressive stuff on his end. But I do recognize that as his problem, now and not my fault, so there is that.
Just sayin’ so that therapy isn’t seen as a panacea.
In order for the chore chart to work for the kids, both parents must own it and defend it and abide by it. It does no good for purple haze to formulate new approaches to housework etc if it is not supported by her husband.
I’m sorry, your response just didn’t convey to me that you read the thread.
I do agree that if she knew about the lack of affection prior to their marriage, there is not a lot she can complain about in that regard. However, not having affection in a relationship is something that a lot of people have trouble with. Maybe she thought she could deal with it at the time and as time has gone by, she’s become more unhappy about it. Maybe he was more affectionate when they were first married but the affection has waned over time. Whatever the situation is, she isn’t happy with the way things are now. They can either decide to save the marriage and work on their problems, or not. We (obviously) cannot do that for them. I don’t know that money will fix their problems, it’s never done that for any other marriage I know of.
I am truthfully more concerned with the described criticisms than anything else. Being constantly belittled is difficult on a person. I think I’d be looking at that problem before anything else.
I agree. I guess when you work on your own stuff and your partner doesn’t, and becomes even more resentful, then you have other decisions to make. Sometimes you do have to make the decision to walk away, if your relationship becomes unbearable. I think you make that decision from a healthier place, though, with a better idea of what’s going on.
Absolutely. But no matter what, it is still hard.
I don’t completely understand the school of thought of “you knew that about him when you married him.”
Yes, that is true and there is a valid point there. But she still has needs. She still wants companionship, not criticism. Those are valid needs. Sometimes the “you knew beforehand” sounds very much like , “suck it up and keep smiling, girl”–which is a terrible thing to say to anyone.
I also can’t help but wonder if the positions were reversed, what the advice would be. If this were a man, complaining about lack of companionship from his wife, constant criticism, lack of help around the house etc–would we all be so quick to jump in with chore schedules and the like? Or would we be more apt to demonize her and tell him to cut his losses. Not saying that hasn’t been said here, but it nags at me a bit.
I wonder.
I know my husband and I have had a number of long talks about the way I perceive the way he speaks to me. He’s often quite honestly surprised that I see something as being curt and abrupt, or even domineering or belittling; it appears that his natural tone without putting any thought into it comes across that way to me. Likewise, when I get annoyed, the pitch of my voice goes up, which bothers the crap out of him.
It’s helped us a lot to talk about it, to discuss specific things that bother us most and specific solutions that will help us both to feel better about the way the other one speaks. And it’s taken specific requests on my part for him to act more affectionate towards me – he honestly didn’t realize that it bothered me.
Being up front about it and talking about the specific things that bother us have led to a lot of changes. I know I can’t change him, but I can ask that he look at certain behaviors and try changing them because they really disturb me. Fortunately, he loves me enough that he’s willing to listen, and he’s also become a lot more willing to let me call him on things that bother me. Likewise, he feels more free to call me on things that bother him. It’s definitely a two-way street. But it all starts with actually saying exactly what it is that bothers us both.
We’ve been lucky that we’ve been able to do it without therapy. But it takes both partners being willing to do that in order for it to be effective. Otherwise, I still agree that therapy is in order – to help the couple establish a basis for learning how to communicate more effectively with each other. Ultimately, without communication, there’s not going to be any change in the relationship.
I’ll have to confess to being a subscriber of this school. I don’t think that bringing this up means that the aggrieved partner is a bad person, it just means that they aren’t a victim. If he was emotionally distant, unfaithful, abusive, cheap, gambling, crazy for God, etc. then you can’t really complain if the behavior persists. You can make requests, set ultimatums, and ultimately, seek divorce, but complaining about things you knew about on the front end seems like abdicating your adulthood. Once you do that, it’s hard to take you seriously.
That said, if the other partner refuses to even engage in communication, there’s not much you can do. I hope the OP’s situation does improve upon her new employment, and that, whatever else befalls, she gets her deadbeat kids to help around the house. Heck, my 4 year old knows enough to take his plate and cup to the sink, and helps with fixing dinner and emptying the dishwasher. He also sorts laundry. A lot of what the OP is facing are the habits of an entire lifetime biting her in the butt, but the 16 year old, at least, will need to sort this stuff out within the next couple of years anyway. No time like th present to start.
Amen to that. You have far more control over yourself than of anyone else in your life - kids included.
With a 16 yo and an 11 yo, this shouldn’t be a ‘new’ rule. Obviously, it’s too late to go back and make it an old rule, but remember that even the best-behaved teens and pre-teens (or husbands) aren’t going to change instantly overnight simply because you made a new rule; it’ll take some time - and patience on your part - to get everyone to adapt to the new regime. Remember that you’re half the reason these rules haven’t been the house rules for everyone over 6 years old for the past decade.
That’s the main thing, with respect to the bills. If you guys can keep that up, you ought to be OK with handling the money issues.
You knew about this going in, but that doesn’t mean you have to live with it. It may have looked more tolerable twenty years ago than it does now. You can let him know you’re not happy with this state of affairs, and he might change if he realizes what it means to you. But it’s not realistic to expect it. In the end, you’re the one who has to decide whether you can live with him as he is if he doesn’t change.
Ann Landers’ old question, “Are you better off with him, or without him?” is the fundamental question in the end, and only you can make that call.
Since her husband was open to sharing the bill payment responsibility, maybe that’s a good indication that he CAN change, communication must begin somewhere and some compromise regarding finances is a big step… I’m not sure Anne Lander’s question is appropriate… instead, the OP’r should ask herself how committed she is to this important relationship, especially since some compromise has occurred.
The intimacy conflict might get best addressed through marital counseling.