Wow. Just wow. You’ve been through some horrific stuff. I wish I could say something to make you feel better.
Please don’t get so down on yourself (e.g. all the “it’s my fault” stuff). You sound like you’re doing a remarkable job with some very tough shit. Yes, it’s great that you recognize you are the only one with the power to change things, but you can do that and still cut yourself some slack! And, by no means have you wasted your potential! You’re still just 23 years old! You’ve got a lot of time left to heal your wounds and go on to have a rich, fulfilling life.
However, I think I can speak for all the mods when I say this is the right place to vent like this. Totally appropriate.
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Now, as a regular poster, may I bastardize a great poet by telling to to “Rage, rage against the dying of” your sex life. Don’t give up.
Please feel free to email me, as well. I also have personal experience with this - and I’m male. If you feel like a male perspective, I’ll be happy to share.
Sorry I kinda scanned the replies so forgive me if I missed someone else saying this but…
IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT.
It never was your fault it never will be your fault you were violated in the worst possible way by those that were supposed to be protecting you. Healing and growing is painful when you have wounds so deep. In the weeping and internal screaming as your wounds scar over and the pain becomes a dull ache deep inside it’s perfectly normal that some days you want to throw up your hands and say “Fuck it. Forget this whole thing I just give up” but you’re not. You’re still fighting and still in the game. You can’t win every battle against the demons that were inflicted upon you but I can tell just by your posts that you’re turning the tide. When you see the end of your journey the first instinct in the world is to say “Damn that’s so far away I can’t keep going” but then you look behind you and see how far you’ve come and you know you can finish.
I had an ex who had a somewhat similar story she was abused from 12-17 just like you by a step father. Bad enough but even after her mother divorced him her mom would still send her over to his house in the morning to get ‘rides’ to school. Though my ex would never tell me the logic behind that the only conclusion I could reach was that her mom was whoring her own daughter out for food stamps or whatever the fuck that evil bastard was providing her with. Unlike you however she flatly refused to deal with any of the baggage she was carrying she would tell me one day that it didn’t bother her at all the next about how she thought about her abuse every day. Meanwhile our sex life and intimacy on all levels were vanishing as we got more ‘domestic’ to use your words. Clearly the more comfortable she was with me and the more sure she was of my love and steadfastness the less she was able to be with me in any loving sense.
We ended up breaking up when she cheated on me with her drug addict ex-husband who she was always obsessed with. If I have any advice to give you is to not be like her. Keep up your therapy and don’t give up. You’re stronger then the cowards that do such things.
I’ve had trouble with love and sex and therapy and I’m amazed at your courage and honesty. I’ll never forget your words and pain and I so hope the pain can fade. The way things have been ripped from you, the things stolen, that you are fighting so hard to take back for yourself and your husband is one of the bravest things I ever heard. I am so hoping for you. I so much want you to be contented. Please don’t give up, although needing a break and feeling like resting are normal things, too. The fact that you survived your childhood and formed a loving relationship with your husband sends me into tears of admiration and sorrow—you deserve everything a good marriage encompasses. I hope you win.
I’ve been through therapy too, for a sexual assault in college and for depression, and so I think you’ve hit it on the head here. You know how this stuff causes a lot of pain when you dig it up, and that’s the way you’re going to get through it, to continue on regardless of the pain. It’ll suck at first, but that’s the way you’re going to get to the point of the healing starting. I hope you learn how to love your body, to split that off from what abusive, evil people did to you, to reclaim your sexual self for you and for your husband.
If there is something I possibly feel worse about at this instant, than about your predicament, it’s the fact that I feel completely helpless to do something to help
Only one thing I’d like to say – yet again, as others have already – yes, it is your problem. No, it is not your fault!
And a word of hope; you are young yet. I hope and believe that given time, you will be able to overcome your demons and enjoy life to the fullest. Think of it, perhaps, as the best revenge you can even imagine – enjoying everything this monster tried to take away from you.
I’m glad you’ve been able to engage your mother in your therapy. I’m curious to know how the therapist handled her claims of schizophrenia, etc. Did the therapist allow her to pull rank on you?
I agree with the others who say to keep trying other forms of therapy until you find some relief. I’m not familiar with sex therapy but I’ve heard stories of it making a huge difference in couples’ lives. I also think it’s relatively recent since all this took place and I hope time will help you to heal. Sounds like you have a great husband. I think you’re doing everything right. Best of luck to you.
I’d like to ask you to give your husband a big hug (I suspect for all of us) and thank him for his care, understanding and love for you. He can’t mitigate all of the horrible things done to you by men - but he sure is a gleaming example of what a man should be. A safe harbour. And I admire him. He represents all that a husband should be.
I’m another one who was severely fucked up by a father. This was my biological father. He stopped beating the hell out me at 14 and began climbing into my bed. I ran away every year from the age of 14 and left home at 17 permanently. I have two older sisters - but he chose me. My mother knew. We never spoke about it. The message was clear - it was my fault and rather than tear the family apart - I went away. I was raised in a small town and my family was greatly respected. I was the bad apple.
Rather than cringing from all sexual contact, I became completely promiscuous. In my mind I believed my only value to men was my sexuality and I exploited that (hah! read that as: I allowed myself to be completely exploited - and gave my permission). I took an entirely different path in my life than my siblings. No college for me. No huge wedding to a man with a fine career. No fine career of my own.
Olive I’m twice your age. I’m getting older and what was once my currency (sexual attractiveness) is no longer. I’m working very, very hard on finding the value I bring to my relationship on this new level. It’s not easy. I’ve never had counselling specific to the abuse. Perhaps I should have. Every decision I’ve ever made in my life can be traced back to the shame and anger I have from my father.
I’m sorry to be using your platform, to vent myself, but I do want to say to you that this is truly a fight worth fighting. You are a survivor. It sounds like you’ve made a wonderful choice with your husband and I applaud you for having the self-respect to make good choices. I wish you all the best. Sex as an expression of love is entirely different than selfish sex. Your step fathers were selfish men and no, they didn’t care that you would carry this forward into every aspect of your life - they selfishly only cared about themselves.
My family too was ripped apart by paedophilic behaviour. It takes a long long time for things to heal, but you’re obviously doing the right thing in looking for different ways to deal with this. It’s one of those things that shapes you - but it doesn’t have to be a permanent scar…
I don’t know what I can add in terms of advice but I did notice one thing. Please don’t feel guilty about how this affects your husband. I’m sure he understands, sympathises immensely and would do anything to make life better for you. In practical terms, I’d abolish all thoughts of sexual intimacy for a set period, and concentrate on making a lot of physical contact. Over time, this might help you to establish comfort zones before the point at which the flashbacks take over.
Another approach might be to try to confront the flashbacks. IAMAP (Psychologist) so please proceed with caution, but I’ve suffered from this too. You know how sometimes you can control your dreams? Well, at one point, instead of letting myself be scared and feeling powerless, lost between the present and the past, I suddenly realised that these flashbacks I experienced were…enemies, I guess. I remember sitting up and telling them (him) that I wouldn’t be hurt any more and that I was in control now - and didn’t need the reminders. I just felt a wave of release, of power and control. It wasn’t the last time I had them (and maybe won’t be) but ever since the ability to incapacitate me has receded considerably.
Also, I just want to say, following our exchange on social anxiety, you are obviously a lovely, sensitive and intelligent person. Don’t let anything stand in the way of having the life you deserve from now on.
Ouch. I’m really sorry to hear about this; puts my own private crises into insignificant perspective. I am not a therapist, a counsellor, a doctor or qualified in any way relevant to this issue, but I believe there HAS to be a way to remove the absolutes from this; the sense that it can never be right. Not wanting to downplay any of the terrible things that have been done to you; those genuinely will never have been right, but there has to be a way to somehow disconnect those bad things from the good things of the present time that only very superficially resemble them. There has to be.
I’m torn between “oh you poor thing” and “wow, you sound like an awesome, strong, brave woman.” I guess I can say both. Thank you so much for sharing your story, and thanks to others who have shared theirs too. If the power of Dopers sending positive thoughts in your direction helps even a little bit, I want you to know that I’m thinking of you. I really hope that you can heal and find peace.
Initially, these were my exact words as I read the OP. If I could possibly add anything, and I’m neither qualified nor entitled to do that, I’d say “Don’t give up, Olive. We believe in you.” I have to think/feel/hope that some way and some how, in ways that might not be obvious at first, things will get better for you.
((OlivesMarch4th)) Not to hijack, but who in the Hell did my Grandfather think he was to do the same thing to my sister?!?! I have seen her grapple with it for years, and if my Grandfather were still alive i would SO kick his ass!
I am sorry Olives, I am just a new guy here, but reading your OP made me mad all over again. Again, sorry.
Well, as if I wasn’t already irrationally emotionally committed to this message board, ya’ll have cemented the deal. I want to respond to each one of you who took the time to offer me support and encouragement, but that might not be the most practical action given the number of replies here. Sufficed to say I appreciate everyone–every single individual, who will not be forgotten–for their love, support, well-wishes and encouragement. The next time I’m on the verge of a nervous breakdown I’ll be sure to re-read this thread. Just looking at it helps to calm my nerves.
I’m skeptical of the research methods used to support this treatment… not close-minded, just skeptical. We’ll see how the sex therapy goes and if it doesn’t work I’m sure eventually I’ll be desperate enough to try anything!
Many of you have expressed this sentiment to me, and it is what I needed to hear. Urrurghg sometimes (um, okay, frequently I just want to throw up my hands and scream, “That’s it! I’m done now! Checking out, thank you!” But I don’t really have that option, and if I look about me long enough I realize I don’t really want to quit, because the payoff is simply too great. Compared to where I was 6 years ago, I’m doing phenomenally well… I have already reaped many of the rewards of this hard work. If I really sit down and think about it rationally I realize that of course it’s all worth it.
That’s the magic of the Straight Dope. Left or right or in the middle, suffering is universal–and on the flip side, so is love. I think we all get that deep down.
This is the toughest, toughest thing for me in the whole mess–drawing that distinction. I’m hoping to address this in a big way in therapy, because my powers of rationality only take me so far when it comes to this. You, and others who have emphasized this distinction, are absolutely, psychology-textbook correct.
I can’t. I think I’ll run this thread by him tonight. Nothing in it will likely surprise him or be new information, but you never know, I could have missed telling him something pertinent. We strive to always be connected, especially on matters as important as this–and in this case, it does directly affect him, so we have a responsibility to one another to be open about it.
This is the other pertinent thing I needed to be reminded of: I have taken my life back and I am living it. There was a time I could not function, could not even drag myself out of bed to face the day because the fear and the depression was too great. But that time is over. No matter how many nervous breakdowns I have where I’m certain everything is going to fall apart again, it’s not going to happen. This morning even though I got shit for sleep I woke up and went to class and tried to learn Statistics and the immense volume of my present life has begun to drown out the whispers of the past yet again.
Sometimes I freak out, as I did last night, for sure–but it doesn’t stop me anymore from just going on and doing what needs done. And that’s crucial for me to understand right now. Not having a sex life sucks, but in the broader context of my entire life–even in the broader context of my entire marriage, it’s just this one stubborn knot that needs to be worked out. I’m not implying these experiences won’t always affect my life (and Dom’s) on some level, won’t always make things tougher overall than they otherwise would have been-- but I am implying that they will not stand in the way of me living my life any more. I’ve had it with fear. I’m going to be afraid of everything no matter what, maybe for the rest of my life… but I’m going to do it all anyways.
If by “grasping at straws” you mean “dispensing sound therapeutic advice.” It’s great advice. I have no idea how such a thing is put into practice–guess I’ll learn that in therapy. Guess I’m even a little excited at the possibility that we really can get help. Oh, it’s going to cost thousands, but it should be a good investment.
I know others who have been through far “worse” than what I have. Suffering is universal. Viktor Frankl describes suffering as exhibiting characteristics similar to a gas. Even a tiny amount can fill up the the entire space of the soul. Or something. That’s a paraphrase. But one of the greatest mistakes I made in my journey was assuming that nobody could ever possibly understand. The truth is I’m not even close to being alone in these experiences, they happen to people all the time. Even beyond direct experience with abuse, everyone intuitively understands what it means to suffer. So don’t minimize your own experience on account of anyone.
It’s worth 1,000,000. x 10^1,000,000.
I needed to hear this. breathes Yes. I’m doing just fine.
:smack: Yes! I so needed to hear this. This is classic CBT anxiety stuff. The more you do the thing you fear, the less you will fear it. My old therapist (AMAZING woman) gave me a hanging ornament engraved with a famous quote by Eleanor Roosevelt: “You must do the thing you think you cannot do.” It’s true. I must. …For some reason my brain decided sex was somehow excluded from this. How silly of me!
Again, SO NEEDED TO HEAR THIS.
It’s one thing to be the innocent victim of abuse, but I’d be a damned fool to give up on the life I’ve made for myself and the gift of my incredibly strong and supportive marriage. For sure.
To quote one of my favorite feminist essays on the topic, “Nothing was stolen from you. The lowlife who did it threw his soul in the gutter but yours is intact.” (something like that.) The key, for me, is learning to believe in the power of that truth.
By all means, vent! This is the place to do it. Not my platform–ours, every individual’s. A place to learn and grow and know we’re not alone. Your life sounds like it was hell. It’s this I need to hear–that others have survived it and that I can too–not merely survive but thrive (not despite, but) in spite of the unique challenges we have faced as a result of our experiences.
Spot on. It doesn’t always help to be constantly reminded of the past. I’m definitely learning to channel this energy. I started with volunteer work (teaching ESL) in an unrelated field but that led me to Social Work as a whole and it looks like I’m going to end up as a therapist using empirically supported treatments with trauma survivors. I’ll graduate this April with a Spanish degree and then off to grad school in social work, a Ph.D maybe? Who knows, the sky’s the limit I guess! That’s a part of what I mean–I have a life that speaks louder than the past in most cases…
…sorry but have to go live that life now (Spanish class!)
Will respond more later!
I feel deeply for you. It sounds like you have your head screwed on tight enough to eventually get through this.
Just a thought I had - does/has alcohol helped or hurt your sexual realtionship with your husband? IOW, if you have a glass or two of wine does it help hide your past and enable you to loosen up with the hubby? Not that you’d want to make a habbit of that sort of behavior, but if you need sexual release maybe it’ll help?
I don’t understand how family can treat each other these ways.
My wife was physically abused and emotionally tortured when she was between 8-13 years old by her grandmother. Her mom was mentally ill (and gone for most of the time for treatment) and her dad was too busy with the family business to care for her so she lived with grandma. Not a good situation. I sort of know the pain you are going through but only as the role of the husband. I can’t put myself in my wife’s head or yours but I have seen how the damage of being abused can cause lifelong problems. In my wife’s case she has trouble trusting people, especially women, and is very reluctant in giving someone a second chance. This tends to show up in the most unopportune times.
The major difference between you and my wife isn’t the kind of abuse that took place but that you have tried soooo hard to fix yourself. She hasn’t yet. I only hope that one day she is able to seek the professional help that I believe she needs. It hasn’t happened yet. I’ll always love her and we are ok together, but she really needs to understand that to get past it she’ll best benefit from counselling.
How did you first come to the grips that you needed help and what were your first steps?
olivesmarch4th, I don’t have time to type out all that I would like right now, but I wanted to drop off another
And let you know that you’re amazing. I’ve been there, too, and I struggle with those same sexual issues. I wish I could say it’s just going to go away one day, but unfortunately, that’s not the case. The fact that you’re facing it head on, though? Damn amazing. Be proud of yourself for that.
There’s a lot more that I’d like to say, so I’ll be back.
One of the things I found most helpful in rape recovery was learning that my body belonged to me to do with as I pleased. I could choose to share it or not share it. Learning to share something that had been taken from me became very empowering - sort of a “fuck you, this is what this is like when it isn’t taken.”
(It did result in a little “more than I’d normally have been” promiscious sex, but I think that was part of taking back and owning what had been stolen.)
Well… if by “engage your mother in therapy” you mean she tried to get me to sign over my authority to make medical decisions on my own behalf and it required therapeutic intervention to convince her that was ludicrous… then yes.
She contacted my therapists herself and came in with a big list of things I had done that indicated I was insane. She wanted me to sign a consent form giving her direct access to medical decisions made on my behalf–to in essence give her authority over me as a medical guardian in the way she had done with my schizophrenic uncle. My therapist–I’m telling you, the woman was make-your-jaw-hit the-floor AMAZING. She played my mother like a motherfucking violin. I never saw anything like it in my life. By the end of the session she was more in touch with reality than she’d ever been in her whole life.
So no, my therapists absolutely did not allow her to pull rank on me. Quite the opposite–they preserved my sense of autonomy (legal and emotional) at a time when I was completely ready to hand it over out of sheer exhaustion and confusion.
(Mom’s epiphane didn’t last, of course, and my psychiatrist didn’t fare as well. They got into a rather heated discussion that required the intervention of my therapist who diffused things rapidly and those two sessions were pretty much it for Mom and therapy. My psychiatrist just kind of pulled me aside next session and said, “Um. I don’t know how you can put up with that woman, but you were way calmer than I was there.” (Again, have to emphasize, she’s significantly less insane now.)
Well, I totally expected college to be the magical cure-all, and it wasn’t. I was getting significantly more depressed and anxious and started having flashbacks for the first time. So I went to my local university counseling center–they are only supposed to do 4-6 sessions but to my surprise they kept me there for FOUR years free of charge. Also they started me on medications, which was really tough for a whlie because I had some horrible side effects–took two years to find something that worked, and then another two years to find something that worked that didn’t increase my danger of diabetes.
Really one of the most helpful things about therapy you can get no matter what kind of therapy you do–it’s called psychoeducation. And for me it was as simple as, “No, you’re actually not insane, this is absolutely normal for people who have been through the kind of trauma you have been through.” I remained vehemently attached to those labels for a while–PTSD, major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder with agoraphobia… I remained attached because for the first time I got that there was something common and universal to my experience. All that time I thought I was a total insane freak and all of my mental problems were my own fault and indicative of the weakness in my character. (It actually gets even MORE universal-- PTSD sufferers experience the same symptoms regardless of the KIND of trauma – from tornados to military combat to rape – so people who suffer are really not nearly as alone as they think they are. I find it interesting that I share something in common with Vietnam War Veterans, and none of us, incidentally, are crazy. )
That is one of the primary functions, IMHO, of therapy–helping the client to understand that there is nothing inherently wrong with them, they are not crazy, and they are not to blame for feeling either way. After getting hit over the head with it for the millionth time you eventually start to believe it!
I would hold out to your wife, however, that if she does decide to start therapy things may get worse before they get better. This is because, especially if she suffers PTSD, one of the primary symptoms of trauma survivors is to avoid at all costs anything that reminds them of the trauma–a sound, a word, a person, a smell, whatever. In this sense they live quite limited lives avoiding everything. When you make the committment to work on these issues you are opening yourself up to encountering the things you have spent your whole life working to avoid. Problems can inevitably ensue. One of these problems is the possibility of a total reversal–instead of avoiding trauma reminders at all cost, she might seek them out, she might obsess and fixate and remain vehemently attached to her whole identity as being that of “trauma survivor.”
That’s not really healthy (believe me, it put me in the hospital.) But it IS part of the process, and one everyone should be aware of. She has to be in a safe place where she starts, and she has to be willing to learn, once things start to get overwhelming, how to take care of herself and when to set things aside for later. She has to learn her own limits–when it’s okay to discuss and think about and when discussing and thinking will result in a mental breakdown that could interfere with her ability to function. And you will have to educate yourself about this process, too.
I have an excellent reccomendation for you. It’s one of the most authoritive books on trauma in the field and it’s called “Trauma and Recovery” by Judith Herman. DO NOT ENCOURAGE YOUR WIFE TO READ THIS BOOK – especially in the beginning of recovery, it’s too much to handle. It is a very academic and analytical book while at the same time not sugar-coating the reality of this kind of horror. It is without a doubt the best book I ever read on the topic but she should read about 50 other “hold your hand” books first, before she takes this on. The book was written for psychologists and therapists, not trauma survivors.
YOU should read it. It wrecked my husband. He says it’s the most difficult thing he’s ever read but completely changed his understanding of what was going on. I really can’t say enough about “Trauma and Recovery.” Amazing, englightening stuff for anyone who’s ever experienced any kind of trauma or known someone who has, and it’s chock full of discussion on the neuropsychology of PTSD and the ways in which traumatic memory is processed differently in the brain than narrative (regular) memory. And while the first half is just about as uplifting as French existentialism, the second half offers real hope.
Olives - You need to do what is right for you, but I can chime in and say that EMDR worked well for me. I can tell you more about it, if you’d like - or even someday if you are ever curious.
It’s so hard to be patient with any kind of recovery, but evn more so when it is because someone that was supposed to love and protect you caused it. You want to just get past it so they don’t have any “power” anymore.
Be patient sweetie, you will get through this, you and your DH - and you will be even stronger (hard to believe in your case) ojn the other side.
