[QUOTE=Agent Foxtrot]
Without getting into the nitty-gritty of the conversation, I’ll tell you that I asked her who she as more feelings for. Without hesitation she said me, but she’s starting school again and she just needs safety and security right now.
[/QUOTE]
Wake up, dude. The lady comes with a price tag. You’re well rid of her.
[QUOTE=Agent Foxtrot]
Thanks for responding, PRR. I can step back and be cool, but the thing that bothers me is that she was with her boyfriend for a year and a half before she met me and still stuck with him in spite of his failings. She broke up with him in April for about 6 weeks, but they got back together.
[/QUOTE]
If I may offer any advice, I would suggest you mak your feelings clear - I am sure you have but sometimes people need to hear it again - and state that there will come a point when hse has to decide if she wants you or not.
You don’t have to set a deadline. Just ensure she knows that she needs to make a decision.
Because if you don’t, she won’t.
[QUOTE=acsenray]
Wake up, dude. The lady comes with a price tag. You’re well rid of her.
[/QUOTE]
See, that’s what I initially thought, too. But as I got to know her, I found her to be an extremely frugal person who has not asked her boyfriend for help unless she’s absolutely needed it (like going to the emergency room). She’s currently restoring her family’s two-story, 100-year-old house entirely with her own elbow grease. She lamented to me one time that she’ll try to fix something on her own when her boyfriend just asks, “Why don’t you just call someone?” She came from a working class family, and doesn’t just “call someone” when something breaks.
[QUOTE=Agent Foxtrot]
See, that’s what I initially thought, too. But as I got to know her, I found her to be an extremely frugal person who has not asked her boyfriend for help unless she’s absolutely needed it (like going to the emergency room). She’s currently restoring her family’s two-story, 100-year-old house entirely with her own elbow grease. She lamented to me one time that she’ll try to fix something on her own when her boyfriend just asks, “Why don’t you just call someone?” She came from a working class family, and doesn’t just “call someone” when something breaks.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not about what she is willing to spend money on or what she wants it for, but rather the fact that she is willing to sacrifice actual love and companionship in exchange for having money (“safety and security”). To me that says that even if she ends up choosing you in the short term, the tragic end is already foretold in the long run. She might make Richie Rich miserable in the long run, too, (she’s already screwing with him right now) but at least it won’t be your headache then.
Uh… don’t break off all contact. Don’t be in her face.
Just make it clear that any contact you DO have stays in the friend zone.
And good luck!
One last thing: once a cheater, always a cheater. If she does leave the other guy for you, don’t get too attached.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
One last thing: once a cheater, always a cheater. If she does leave the other guy for you, don’t get too attached.
[/QUOTE]
That’s what stuck out to me. You may get her to leave this other guy and you may have fun together for a while but don’t get your hopes up for this to end Happily Ever After.
She has shown you who she really is with the way she is treating her other man. The way she is treating him right now is not about him being The Bad Guy or not paying enough attention to her, it’s about who she is and how she behaves in relationships. She is the kind of woman who uses a man for his money and then jumps into bed with someone new before ending her relationship (and even if you didn’t actually have intercourse, it sounds like you did stuff you wouldn’t want your girlfriend to do with another man before she had officially broken up with you). Don’t expect her to treat you any better.
A certain segment of the female population out there is willing to toy with guys’ hearts for the sake of getting as much money as they can out of them. Think about Siam Sam’s threads warning us about all those Thai bargirls. 
Two things we know about her:
She cheats on her boyfriend (and making out is cheating. Don’t kid yourself that it isn’t). If she’s willing to mac around on this boyfriend, how much would you really be able to trust her if you become the out of town boyfriend?
She prioritizes money above affection. I ain’t saying she’s a golddigger but…
These are not good qualities in a potential mate. You may be better off without her. It’s hard to have objectivity when you’re in the throes of infatuation, though. If you’re convinced you’re in love, I think you need to go with the ultimatum. Don’t drag it out and torture yourself. Prepare yourself emotionally for this to be history, then it will be a nice surprise if she shows up at your door with her bags packed.
A word of warning – the incumbent boyfriend has a huge advantage. He has the access and the history and really, the better knowledge of who she is. Plus, he’s the one she’s sleeping with. It’s hard to compete against that. Chances are he’s going to reel her back in. You should probably move on. And as trite as it sounds, there really are other fish in the sea.
Anybody who needs to get their security from their SO isn’t somebody I’d want to be with. YMMV.
FWIW, I call this scenario “The catalyst consumed by the reaction.”
A couple is dating…things aren’t going great. Maybe he takes her for granted or proactively pisses her off.
At this point, she may call him and say: “I don’t know if this is going to work out” or make other grumblings about the relationship. But there’s an inertia, possibly fueled by empty threats or indecision, etc. Maybe he gives some lip service but nothing happens.
To her, the grass starts looking mighty green on the other side, and a situation like the one you describe comes up. So she jumps the fence. Intense makeout, love is so wonderful, yadda.
At this point, she may call him and say the very same words: “I don’t know if this is going to work out” or make the same other grumblings about the relationship. But this time, it’s different. Maybe it’s her tone of voice that lets him know, ‘Wow, she’s not fucking around this time!’ Because after all, she’s emboldened with the knowledge that she can kick him to the curb…you’re already in the bullpen so there’s little uncertainty in her mind, which she subtly conveys whether she’s trying to or not.
Or, if she’s seen him in person, maybe it’s the expression on her face. Or maybe it’s that she calls faithfully every night at a given time and suddenly it stopped. It could be soooo subtle that the conscious mind can’t detect it, but his subconscious knows good and well that something has changed.
So at this point, he REALLY listens to her and like most people, his reaction will be “Baby, come back! I didn’t mean it! We can make this work!” etc. And he means it. For awhile, at least. Long enough for you to be harpooned through the heart, anyway.
You catalyzed a reaction for them and then…well, where are you in that beaker?
Backtrack: some would get high and mighty and say, “Shame on you for messing with another man’s woman!” Well, ok, maybe, I don’t know. But I’ve long suspected that what we call “morals” or “ethics” are really shorthand for the most practical way to live.
I.e. yes, he doesn’t deserve her, and yes, if she were truly happy with him she wouldn’t be vulnerable to you, etc. All the academics aside, it’s worse than not getting the girl…it’s knowing that you started a chain reaction that blew up in your face.
I really do sympathize with following your heart…and I hesitated to post some of this. But when I’ve been burned, I’ve always forced myself to learn from it. The only thing worse than going through some things is going through them twice.
My advice? I think you’re already screwed. I’d lay low, let her call you. But I think she’s already gone back to him—in her heart if not in the flesh—when she’s asking that you meet in a public place etc.
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
My advice? I think you’re already screwed. I’d lay low, let her call you. But I think she’s already gone back to him—in her heart if not in the flesh—when she’s asking that you meet in a public place etc.
[/QUOTE]
Although there is thruth to be found here, don’t let fear rule you.
If you wan’t something bad enough you have to grit your teeth and make your move.
All of this is speculation at this point.
I know this is cliche’ but its better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
If it’s lost, it’s already gone. Treading lightly will only make your pain last longer.
Either way, stand tall dog.
Just my hard earned 2 cents.
[QUOTE=lavenderviolet]
A certain segment of the female population out there is willing to toy with guys’ hearts for the sake of getting as much money as they can out of them. Think about Siam Sam’s threads warning us about all those Thai bargirls.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed! Forewarned is forearmed.
This episode reminds me of an incident way back when I was an undergrad. I started dating the daughter of the dean of my college. All went well for a while until one day she confessed she had a fiancee but wanted to keep me on the side. Huh! Well, I admit at first I sort of felt a thrill to be “the other guy,” but that rapidly wore off, and upon giving it some serious thought, I broke it off with her in a friendly way.
I think the OP is probably better off without this lady, although he won’t be able to see that for a while. She sounds like she may be seriously messed up, and no, he cannot “save” her. I’ve seen guys in his condition over here, and I recommend he stay out of tall buildings for a spell.
She rushes to his arms; they fall together
She whispers that it’s only for awhile
She swears that soon she’ll be coming back forever
She pulls away and leaves him with a smile.
The Eagles/Lyin’ Eyes
I think that’s the sort of thing you need to be hearing and seeing from her, OP, if you are to believe she’s leaning your way. Also, quoting Diogenes:
*A word of warning – the incumbent boyfriend has a huge advantage. He has the access and the history and really, the better knowledge of who she is. Plus, he’s the one she’s sleeping with. It’s hard to compete against that. Chances are he’s going to reel her back in. *
Women especially hate to think that they’ve been wasting their time on someone. Maybe her friends/family have been telling her to dump him and she’s resisted. Now she’s “proven right” because he’s ‘finally come around’ and everything’s going to be great etc.
I’d really like to be wrong about this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re engaged in a couple months.
I find it funny that you say:
With the attitude that you didn’t do anything wrong. No offense dude, but while I can understand having feelings for her, you don’t do that shit when you’re in a relationship. IT’S CHEATING. Do you honestly think that ONLY sex is cheating? Because that’s so completely wrong.
Don’t get me wrong; you didn’t make her cheat on her boyfriend. She definitely has responsibility. But you’re painting yourself as this virtuous person by “holding back” while you’re sucking face with a girl who has a boyfriend.
This is why you don’t date people who are already taken. Honestly, did you really think this would play out differently? Because her boyfriend was emotionally unavailable? The conversation you have when you are about to start dating someone who is already taken is, “You have a boyfriend. The position I want is filled. Let me know when it’s vacant, and we’ll take it from there.”
@zweisamkeit & featherlou: Playing devil’s advocate a bit, the saying goes “All’s fair in love and war.” If I were dating a beautiful woman like her, I wouldn’t give her cause to stray…she might cheat anyway if that’s just how she is, but I wouldn’t neglect her. Isn’t it one of the universal laws that if you don’t take care of what you have, you’re bound to lose it?
I suspect sometimes in a scenario like this, the OP would get the girl…the problem here could be that she wasn’t over the other guy to an extent that she was ready for someone new. If this situation arose three months from now, maybe it would have been all good. For all the things we look for in relationships, IME the one that usually makes or breaks it is timing.
Rewinding the OPs situation to this point described by **featherlou **
The conversation you have when you are about to start dating someone who is already taken is, "You have a boyfriend. The position I want is filled. Let me know when it’s vacant, and we’ll take it from there."
As a method to get the girl this is what I would suggest as well, but I’m very dubious. I think she’d feel busted, caught in the act. And she’ll avoid seeing the OP, who now knows her flaws, faults, etc. because being in his presence will likely trigger guilt. She’ll quite possibly feel like a slut for even suggesting it and dimly wonder if it’s bs, if the OP really thinks she just isn’t attractive enough. Another serving of guilt comes from contact with the bf.
The OP would need to do lots of damage control, say things like “Hey, you’re only human” etc. And this could be like landing a 747 on the head of a pin, wanting to reassure her without luring her. In any case that guilt double scoop would probably drive her back to the bf, prompting her to want to “make it up” to him. That means sex, and sex cements relationships.
IOW the probability of success of this strategy must be under 10%. So, go for the girl and you lose; don’t go for the girl and you very probably lose. Later, if the high-road strategy actually worked, when the OP and she are together and the OP feels insecure, he couldn’t think, ‘She’d never cheat’ because he knows she did with him and she could have similar issues.
I bet a lot of not-very-introspective people get themselves into a situation like this and eventually, something comes up in their relationship that demands that they revisit issues. But a lot of people like the OP (who is brilliant simply by virtue of being on the dope, right?) also take that one teeny little step across a line and…well, you know.
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
“All’s fair in love and war.” If I were dating a beautiful woman like her, I wouldn’t give her cause to stray…she might cheat anyway if that’s just how she is, but I wouldn’t neglect her.
[/QUOTE]
People say that to justify their bad behavior. Besides, we don’t really know how much the old boyfriend is neglecting her. We only know what she told to the person with whom she’s cheating on her boyfriend, which doesn’t exactly give her the highest credibility ever.
You’re trying to paint both of you as victims of circumstance. You’re not, and she’s not. Think about it, know that she’s cheating on her boyfriend to be with you (most people would consider “holding back just from sex” to be cheating, imo), and decide whether the potential relationship is worth it. Then think about how long you’re willing to let her string you along. Once you decide those things, it’ll be easy to decide whether to ask her to choose, cut her loose, or keep being the guy who listens to her complain about her boyfriend during the occasional make out session.
[QUOTE=Vihaga]
People say that to justify their bad behavior. Besides, we don’t really know how much the old boyfriend is neglecting her. We only know what she told to the person with whom she’s cheating on her boyfriend, which doesn’t exactly give her the highest credibility ever.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. So, lobotomyboy63, your “all’s fair” philosophy means you would be doing nothing wrong if the woman was married and you were fucking her brains out?
And a woman/relationship is not something to look at as a conquest. How about, I dunno, a relationship of equals? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=zweisamkeit]
And a woman/relationship is not something to look at as a conquest. How about, I dunno, a relationship of equals? :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Well that’s certainly a novel idea. 
Anyway, this woman isn’t like other women. She’s got little to no willpower and less consideration, else she’d have done the right thing and dumped the other guy or not hooked up with the OP.
Honestly, I feel pretty shitty for the actual boyfriend. He’s the one getting the shaft here.
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
@zweisamkeit & featherlou: Playing devil’s advocate a bit, the saying goes “All’s fair in love and war.” If I were dating a beautiful woman like her, I wouldn’t give her cause to stray…she might cheat anyway if that’s just how she is, but I wouldn’t neglect her. Isn’t it one of the universal laws that if you don’t take care of what you have, you’re bound to lose it?
[/QUOTE]
Agreed with the others so far, that’s just a way to justify what you’re doing. I suspect the OP would be very displeased if a hypothetical girlfriend of his was doing all of that stuff with another guy.
I concur with most who say that the intimacy that has happened (both physical and emotional) thus far does constitute cheating. Anything that you won’t want your significant other to do with another is cheating. No doubt about it.
Having said that if you really want this woman, here’s what I would do:
Make it clear to her that you are interested. Make it very clear. Don’t err on the side of caution, but don’t be a psycho. Women can smell that a mile away and it smells really bad. If in doubt that you’re going too far, try and view your actions from the other side. If a woman did this for you (a note, an email with your feelings, flowers, etc,) would you be scared off? If so, don’t so it. Additionally, you have to look back on this and be pleased that you stepped up to the plate, but not feel embarrassed or like a wimp afterwards. A fine line, but not so fine that you can’t find it.
Here is the most important part. Once you make it clear you want her in your life, step back and don’t do a thing. Not a call, email, voice mail. Nothing. I think it’s important to leave the woman (or a guy if the rolls were reversed) with a good sense of the possibilities of the relationship, coupled with the knowledge (growing as time goes by) that she is in danger of losing it.
I think this gives you the best chance of winning her over, coupled with the knowledge that if you don’t, you feel that you made an effort, but didn’t embarrass yourself. Either way, you can feel good about who you are.