cough camcorder! cough
Please tell us Katie does not have children or is planning to have a baby. I shudder to think how’d she’d treat an infant.
Maybe you can get the other people who agree with you to accompany you for an intervention. Make it very clear to Katie that beating animals is unacceptable.
Great. Good luck,
I’m probably FTT here, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. At least in the case of dogs, they like being told what to do; dogs are inherently heirarchical animals who are far happier, healthier and more relaxed when a clearly defined authority creates structure for them. Establishing a heirarchy for a dog isn’t robbing them of their animalness - it is, in fact, giving them precisely what evolution has made them want and expect. And I know in the case of my dogs, keeping them in a yard was more a case of just being considerate of others - I don’t want my animals crapping on other people’s lawns or scaring their kids - than worrying about the dogs running away. They would NEVER have run away. Until they got dogs next door we’d let them out into the front yard all the time.
True story: My grandparents had this dog, Rudy. Rudy was the most neurotic, unhappy dog I’ve ever seen. They had no system for disciplining him, and basically never disciplined him at all. Sometimes they’d be angry at him when he destroyed something, sometimes they wouldn’t. My grandmother was constantly calling him to make sure he wouldn’t pee inside but them they’d apply no discipline when he did. He’d jump and lick and act like an absolute nutbar and nothing would be done. It was a different approach every day to everything he did, and you never saw a mroe nervous animal in your life. He was twitchy, afraid of other animals, wouldn’t come when called, constantly begging - he just did not seem like a very happy dog.
Anyway, they’re pretty old and finally asked my parents to take him in. My father has trained animals all his life - he used to train horses - and my parents follow a strict regimen of disciplining animals when they’re bad and loving them like crazy when they’re good. Within two weeks Rudy was a happier dog - loving, fun, not twitchy or nervous at all. his neuroses had nearly vanished, and now, a few years later, they have totally vanished. It was just night and day; I couldn’t believe it was the same dog.
The reason the OP’s friends’ animals are nervous, especially the dog, is that they are not being given clear signals. Striking an dog hard enough to cause pain is perceived by the dog to be an act of anger, especially when it’s not done in the context of roughhousing.
I don’t see that anyone else has mentioned this, but have you thought of perhaps checking out a book from the library on basic cat care and using that to back up your discussion with her? Most books like this have some sort of section on how cats should be physically treated, and it might help show her that this isn’t just something you made up or are overreacting to.
Also, have you talked to any of her fellow volunteers at WildCare to see how she treats the animals they rescue? I know that she probably handles them less for fear of acclimating them to humans, but it would be interesting to see if anyone else has noticed this issue.
Since she’s your friend, of course you want to try talking to her and her husband first. But if that doesn’t work, I would recommend reporting her.
If she won’t listen to you, then assemble a number of resources such as:
http://www.hopeaf.com/Articles/Articles.asp?m=20
Have her read them and see for herself why you do not strike animals that way, even gently.
While we’re on the subject of teaching people about their own pets, I don’t know how you’ve been around cats all your life without realizing just how tough they really are, Elysian. I’m not saying you should punch them or hit them, but I’ve seen my cats slam into walls, jump straight into the corner of a coffee table, run head first into a door they didn’t expect to be closed, and they just shake it off and keep going. The roughhousing we do around here when the cats are feeling scrappy is nowhere near hurting them.
[Dr. Evil voice]
No, no, Katie. We do not beat the kitty. Just stroke him very gently. Pet him very softly. See how gently I treat Mr. Wigglesworth? That’s how we treat the kitty.
[/Dr. Evil voice]
Okay I’ll grant you that, but on a conservative estimate that cat weighs one tenth your weight. The amount of damage they can inflict on themselves is nothing like what you can do to them. You are a heck of a lot stronger than that little cat.
The amount of force that little body absorbs by running into a door is nothing compared to what you can inflict without even meaning it.
I already said I treat my cats gentler than they probably can stand. I didn’t say you couldn’t roughhouse.
I resent that you imply that I don’t everything about my cats. You don’t know anything about me other than what I have already stated. And I thought I said pretty implicitly that I pet my cats gently and that it’s my own personal hangup.
Are you trying to say that my friend is not treating her cats roughly? Please read my op again. I don’t think you really understood it.
Oh, please don’t tell me you’re offended that someone would dare tell an owner how to treat their pets, considering that’s exactly what you’re doing. That’s just…ridiculous will work well enough, I guess.
And the simple fact of the matter is, Featherlou is correct. Cats are incredibly tough creatures, and a human of normal strength is not going to damage a normally-sized adult cat with their hands without putting some effort into it. The feline body is designed to absorb impact. As I type this, my 10" cat just jumped off a 5’ armoire, absorbing a lot more energy than my hand could generate without putting some effort into it.
Go off on a diatribe about how cats should be treated if you must, but make sure you have the facts behind you first.
CrazyCatLady, professional cat wrangler
well, i’ll add my voice to the Devil’s Advocate chorus.
we have two female cats right now. i’ve had cats (or they’ve had me) since i was seven. i have regularly done the “bongo cat” thing on most of them throughout my life. not one of them has perceived it as anything but “playing rough”. it’s definitely a completely different “touch” than a disciplinary smack would be – no confusing the two whatever.
open-handed patting, particularly when done rapidly enough, is more about compressing air into a noisy caress than actually apply brute force. unless you’re being extremely light-touched about it, it’s rather difficult to pat something WITHOUT making noise. (pat a table surface; pat your leg; pat a horse’s side; pat a dog or cat on its side or tummy – the sound level is all pretty much the same.)
i’d personally have to see the actions you ascribe to your friend before i’d make any judgment on whether or not she’s abusing her pets. but obviously YOU’RE uncomfortable with what you think you’re seeing. the devil is always in the details… you may be super-squeemish, she may be overly-rough, or it could be some intersection between the two.
why don’t you try to get some neutral party (who’s fairly well-qualified regarding judging animal care/abuse) to observe your friend with her pets, and see what their opinion is, first?
I would NOT call her husband. My advice would be to sit down with her and have a serious discussion expressing your very real concern. Tell her that her inability to grasp what you believe to be obvious abuse is concerning you greatly, so much so that you have thought about talking to animal control. I think with the right tone and approach, you might get somewhere.
Calling her husband could be viewed as a betrayal, especially if he gets off the phone with you and tells her about the call. It just seems like you owe her a very serious confrontation before going behind her back.
Are you guys saying I should hit my cats :eek:
No, I’m not offended or anything. I know you can’t see what she’s doing to them. The dog yips, the cats hiss and try to bite when she pets them. I can’t imagine that being a response if she isn’t hurting them in some way.
I think my first or second response would be to question the veracity of the testimony. I’ve already taken into account my “squeamishness,” as you so succinctly put it. I am trying to get hints on how to handle the situation.
I just can’t leave that sweet kitten with her. She doesn’t even like it anymore because it hates her.
From the OP:
Seems clear to me that Katie was being way too rough with E.'s cat. I’m surprised Katie would hit someone else’s cat like that, much less her own.
And since E.'s cat ran into the other room to escape any further abuse, no doubt, that tells me Katie was indeed abusing that poor animal.
I wish you all the best in handling this very tough situation, E. Please keep us posted.
Why not? That sounded like a perfect opportunity to weigh in!
How does it behave when treated in this way? Stay there? Hiss? Growl? If her cats routinely protest when she ‘pets’ them, then I think you have a Problem. After all, if a cat hisses when petted, and the petter doesn’t realise that this is Not Good, then frankly, they are a tad lacking in the upstairs dept. In such a case, I doubt that mere words would get the message of care across, though possibly a piece of 2x4 applied vigorously to the petter’s forehead would.
Well, the choices seem quite simple:
You could invite her round to your place, and let her pet your cat. When she slaps the feline, you might try slapping her. A hearty blow to the shoulder or such. When she asks ‘what the fuck are you doing’, you might reply ‘pretty much what you just did to my furry friend’. I’m actually somewhat serious with this suggestion.
You might try a form of touchy-feely approach, perhaps querying her as to why she thinks all her cats hate her. Suitably reworded, of course.
Of course (again), all this assumes that the view through your eyes is close enough for jazz to what is going on.
Oh yeah. Tell her that her cats are lardyfatpumpkinbellyfreaks, too.
Elysian
I think you should speak to Katie directly. I’m like you, I hate confrontation. My question is this though. If you say something to her and you end up with her kittie, what is to stop her from getting another/more kitties and doing the same (or worse) to those animals?
Clearly she has a problem. Just sit her down and talk it out with her. This NEEDS to be said to her. If there is one thing I learned in my child care classes, it’s take the ownes on yourself. Tell her that it is bothering YOU. Tell her you are concerned about the animals. Tell her you want her to start treating the animals better. Tell her to actually TRY to think when petting them to be more gentle.
Bite the bullet girlie. Sit her down and talk to her. Make specific points and help her figure out what’s going on.
Good luck
no, i’m saying that not every pet/owner pair communicates or interacts in exactly the same manner. someone might never dream of doing anything more energetic than lightly stroking an animal’s fur. someone else might think they’re neglecting their pet if they don’t get down on the floor and wrestle mano a doggo, as it were. and their respective pets both could be perfectly happy with the owners’ approach.
yet i thought you also said elsewhere that one of her cats sat on her lap while she “smacked” it (your words), saying all the while that the cat didn’t mind. well, in my book, if the cat DID just stay on her lap, it must not have minded all that much; it would have gotten the hell out of Dodge if things were all as bad as you felt they must be. you said you thought the cat’s expression implied it felt miserable about it. i’ve known very few cats in my multiple decades that are willing to take abuse without requiring visible forms of restraint.
and here i’ll throw in a caveat to my previous statements:
every animal is a unique personality; what works for one (or even several) does not necessarily work for all.
so perhaps you’re right regarding the kitten (maybe even her husband’s dog) – your friend’s version of affection is not going over well… with that individual animal.
maybe that’s your compromise approach in dealing with the situation. try to point out to your friend that, while she loves her animals, and most of her animals love her, SOME of the animals aren’t responding on the same wavelength that she tends to operate on. strongly suggest she try a different approach or technique in interacting there; a subtle (or not) hint… ummm, suggestion… about gentler handling should be inserted <here>.
You know that feeling of outrage and offense that you seem to be feeling? Expect that from your friend if you go to her with your concerns about how she is treating her pets. One of my aims in posting as I did was to give you an idea of how being on the other side of the discussion feels, and you don’t seem to like it very much, and I wasn’t even accusing you of any untoward behaviour. It would probably be safe to assume that your friend will react much as you did.
I had a cat that liked to be thumped on her lower back…but they were quick massage-like thumps without a lot of force. I only mention this because they did makes sounds.
If the animals are flinching and obvious in pain, call Animal Control. If the animals were liking the beatings, they would be rubbing up against her and purring (cats), or wagging their tails and licking her (dogs).
It’s easy to read.
Maybe a lot of us are confused because while the OP claims the animals don’t like their treatment, this accused friend is still able to get her hands on her cats. If the cats don’t like the way she treats them, why haven’t they learned to avoid her?
We all know any cat may at any time jump up and run out of room. But why can she get them on her lap in the first place?
I had a cat that loved it if you cupped your hand and hit it. not so that the force of the hit was really hard… just so that the wind from the cupping of the hand would go WUMP! it made a sound, but he would purr and come and get me to do it.