I Think My Son Might Be Gay

[even_sven]

When I was a kid, my mom sat me down and said “You know, Sven, if you are a lesbian it doesn’t matter to me one bit” and left it at that. I was mortified- just because I was unpopular didn’t mean I was a lesbian. But if I had turned out to be gay, I would have let her know and I’m sure that talk would have saved a lot of anguish.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the kids at school. It’s very different now than it was even just a few years ago, and there are plenty of “out” kids in schools.

It sounds to me like he might be transgendered. This means the gender inside your head is not lined up with the gender expressed in your body. Generally people know this from a very young age.

There are four places gender can be expressed- physically, in hormones, in actions, and in the head. Any one of these can get misaligned. In the end, it’s the “head gender” that wins. While bodies and hormones can be changed, there is no force in the world that can change “head gender”. No amount of counciling or hormones or training can change this. It’s real.

Unfortunately, this misalignment can cause a lot of grief. Imagine waking up tomorrow in the body of an old Chinese man. You’d be weirded out. You probably eventually come to hate it. And you’d do anything to have your body make sense again- especially if people insisted on treating you like an old Chinese man. Most transgendered people have a desire to make their physical body match up with their real gender- the one they believe. Solutions range from buying pink dress shirts to full-on surgery- each person knows what is right for them. Most people also take hormones for their right gender. Their body isn’t making the hormones they need, but luckily with science they can get them.

Transgendered people can be either gay or straight. It may seem insurmountable, but it’s actually pretty possible to live a normal life with a spouse, etc. Love seems to be stronger than gender. But it’s still much less socially acceptable than being gay. It’s a lot for people to wrap their heads around. But love and acceptance go a long ways.

If your son is transgendered, he will probably know it by now. Unfortunately as the body ages, it can be harder to “transition” successfully- if the body gets the wrong hormones at puberty and through the teen years changes happen that can’t easily be reversed. If he does come out to you as transgendered, it will be important to talk to a doctor about it. They may advice some hormones, etc. in the teen years. This may seem too soon, but physically it can be important.

[Skywatcher]

@Wnabtokio

I myself was a late bloomer when it came to being attracted to the opposite sex. (Didn’t really happen until I was 15 or so, which seems kind of late to me.)

Fifteen? I didn’t start really noticing girls until I turned 21!

When I was little, I sometimes dressed in a tutu that had belonged to one of my sisters and pretended I was a flower. Although nearly all my friends were boys, I had no interest in roughhousing with them–tackle football without pads isn’t my idea of fun. If not for having a basketball hoop over our garage during most of my childhood, and not counting gym class, I’d have played with my sisters’ dolls more than I played sports. My parents probably thought I was gay but I am definitely attracted to women.

[Fetchund]

And there is always the possibility that your son will swing back and forth - at 13 I was not interested in anybody. By 15 I had discovered boys. By 17 I had discovered girls. I look at all the kids “coming out” in early teens and think “Don’t limit yourselves - you never know who you will be when the growing up is done.”

Just let your kid know, every day, that you love him, and will love him no matter what. Thanks for caring enough to ask.

[saoirse]

@elfbabe

Oh, and if he doesn’t come out to you? He may not be scared or confused or lying… he may just be a femmy straight kid!

I am trying to imagine what it would be like to be a tennage boy who is effeminate and not ready to start dating, whose mother already knows he is gay and supports him and is attending PFLAG meetings, and is completely straight. Letting the kid be who he is also means not assuming he’s gay.

[eleanorigby]

He doesn’t sound gay or transgendered to me at all. He sounds like a tween having fun in ways that previous generations didn’t dare. I can’t remember if he is 11 or 13, but either way–he is just finding out about himself, really.
A boy who has slender fingers and resembles his mother’s side of the family coming after a “hirsute” macho older brother and father–I pity him, but I don’t think he’s gay. He’s his own self. My advice to you is to support HIM. I personally have very little patience with the supposed ideal of hairy, grunting manliness–I think it’s complete BS. Who wants a lout for a son/date/husband?

I ahve a 14 year old son who was caring and sensitive and like to play with his sister and her friends as a small child. He made St Francis of Assissi look like a Nazi. He had blonde curls, long eyelashes and a high voice. Now, at 14, he is developing an Adam’s apple, has grown a foot, shaves once a month and the girls love him (and call).

You just can’t tell. I know you said you had more than just what you posted to go on, and I’m sure that’s true. But I wouldn’t even worry about the bikini top and the lipstick–he may be trying to get a rise out of Dad and Bro (and it looks like it worked). Even if this is an expression of transgendered stuff–so what? I would worry about his being rejected by his Dad and brother more. That is sure to hurt and be hurtful.

[Kalhoun]

As a semi-pertinent aside…

When my son was about 15, we were not getting along well at all. It was extremely stressful for both of us. Anyhoo…he was hanging out with a gay kid who was a few years older than him. He’d come home and tell me that he was at the gay guy’s house (had his own place and all) and constantly bringing this guy’s sexuality into the conversation to freak me out. When I didn’t get pissed off about the kid’s sexuality, but more about the infractions my kid was making, it drove him nuts!

[Charger]

@kambuckta

Put it down to a mothers’ intuition if you like, but I believe that my kid is doing this super-hetero display as a sort of denial about his true orientation.

I believe there is a lot of truth to this. I think a lot of males will embrace traditionally masculine traits to try to distance themselves from the feminine, which to me comes across as kind of gay.
I believe in the spectrum of sexuality, and I think that males who fall on the “curious” half of the hetero side spectrum tend to fear, and therefore try to cover up, their curiosities with a hyper-hetero front.

I was a kid very much like the one described in the OP. I remember discovering that my closet had become the storage place for a little pink dress that my sister had outgrown, but fit me like a glove. Up to this point (around age 11), I had developed a fascination with girls. So, one day, I tried it on to see what it was like to be completely surrounded with femininity. I loved it, and wore it whenever it was “safe.” The idea of having a photo of me “as a girl” would have been a huge joy at that age. I even remember as far back as third grade, I would cover my mouth in class and try to lip-synch the words of a cute girl in class whenever she spoke. My theory was that the planets would align and, somehow, the two of us being in the same position and moving in the same way at the same time would allow us to switch bodies. So I had a fascination with being a girl, and basking in all things feminine. My parents did find a bunch of my sister’s clothes that had been “borrowed” and stashed in my closet. They did make a big embarassing stink about it, and I tried to blame it on siblings, I was humiliated. But they soon let it go and be forgotten, rarely referencing that “discovery.”

Anyway, I’m not gay. In fact, quite the opposite. I don’t like being around men, I think they’re disgusting and oaf-ish. I’ve participated in things that allowed me to be around girls. I even joined the cheerleading squad and felt like I was in heaven, being around a bunch of pretty girls in short skirts, and getting to interact with them and have physical contact with them as much as possible. And connection I can have with women is a huge turn-on. I often reject typical male things, because I still have an obession with women. The women I am most attracted to are the girly-girls. The girlier, the better. And I’m not intimidated by my own feminity. I’m not sure what to classify myself as. Sometimes, I look at is as super-heterosexuality, because it is essentially an extreme obession with women/feminity. An attraction to anything feminine, with a rejection of anything masculine.

It does make it difficult to express myself, however, in a homophobic world. I keep many of my attractions and fantasies VERY private. I can relate to many gays, and I admire the ones who have the courage come out of the closet, but it’s hard for me because what I’m closeted about isn’t homosexuality, but heterosexuality with an emphasis on the “girly.” So the only concern I have for another young lad with those same feelings is how they will be accepted by their peers. In my early thirties, I still find myself occasionally trying to play up the macho-crap for other guys, just so I don’t get looked at funny. And I hate it. I get uncomfortable during conversations about conquering women sexually, or taking advantage of them. I just want that sweet romance, but many women have thought I was gay and rejected me.

You’d think a “seemingly gay, but straight” guy would be just what women want (we always hear, “It’s too bad he’s gay”), but my dating experience has dwindled down to nearly nothing.

Anyway, after that long tangent, I don’t think the boy described in the OP is gay. But he may just have a hard time trying to cram his personality into an unaccepting society. But, to me, he sounds like a great kid.

[lissener]

Please people, let’s be more careful, shall we?

@even sven

It sounds to me like he might be transgendered.

This is a HUGE leap to take in response to a* little kid’s* understanding of gender issues.

My neice, second child to an older brother, used to think that she’d be a boy when she was older. That was logical; her brother was older, and he was a boy. She was convinced of this till she was probably four or five.

Please, don’t let’s any of us continue to “diagnose” trublmaker’s kid from a frikkin message board, K?

K?

Thanks.

[even_sven]

@lissener

Please people, let’s be more careful, shall we?This is a HUGE leap to take in response to a* little kid’s* understanding of gender issues.

My neice, second child to an older brother, used to think that she’d be a boy when she was older. That was logical; her brother was older, and he was a boy. She was convinced of this till she was probably four or five.

Please, don’t let’s any of us continue to “diagnose” trublmaker’s kid from a frikkin message board, K?.

Hey, I didn’t say he was transgendered. But it’s something to learn about and think about. I saw a few comments about being transgendered that were inaccurate or ambiguous (and it can be a difficult thing to make sense of) so I thought I’d give a quick rundown on the off chance that is what is happening.

[Sampiro]

@matt_mcl

My mother was also worried for me when I came out, for much the same reasons you are. (It’s her job.) Well, it’s been eight years now, and I am grateful to Whom it may concern that I’m gay.

Same here (except it’s been longer than eight years). Had you offered me a pill when I was 17 that would have flip-flopped my sexual fantasies to hetero (I didn’t actually have sex until years and years and years later) I’d have taken it before you could draw your hand back. Today, no way. The things about my life I don’t like and would change have bupkis to do with being gay.

[matt_mcl]

@even sven

Hey, I didn’t say he was transgendered. But it’s something to learn about and think about.

I’d like to clarify that this was the sense of my comment too. Gender-nontraditional behaviour, especially in childhood, isn’t at all prima facie that someone is transgender. But I’d rather parents be aware of it and inform themselves on the subject, just as I’d like them to do the same regarding the possibility that their child is gay or bisexual.

[lel]

If he does identify as gay, transgendered, or some other adjective I can’t recall, you may wish to keep this site in mind: Wingspan.

Of course, it’s also quite possible that he’s just a kid with an affinity for femininity.

[Kuizelemartz]

@Sampiro

Same here (except it’s been longer than eight years). Had you offered me a pill when I was 17 that would have flip-flopped my sexual fantasies to hetero (I didn’t actually have sex until years and years and years later) I’d have taken it before you could draw your hand back. Today, no way. The things about my life I don’t like and would change have bupkis to do with being gay.

I’m pretty sure there are quite a few women here at SDMB that want you to take such a pill. We would all take a number and you’d be a very busy man for months to come.

[Dangerosa]

@even sven

When I was a kid, my mom sat me down and said “You know, Sven, if you are a lesbian it doesn’t matter to me one bit” and left it at that. I was mortified- just because I was unpopular didn’t mean I was a lesbian. But if I had turned out to be gay, I would have let her know and I’m sure that talk would have saved a lot of anguish.
.

I have a girlfriend whose mother took it a step further…“its really only fair that you give both genders a chance before you decide for sure what you want…and sexual experimentation as a teenager is perfectly normal, you don’t need to make life decisions about your sexuality at fifteen.”

[Johanna]

Coming out trans is a funny kind of phenomenon. This thread has examples of kids who gender crossed when young and then grew up cisgendered. In my case, my mom was astonished when I came out, because she said I hadn’t manifested femininity in childhood. Actually, she didn’t see what I buried deep under the surface. I can tell those stories in another thread. The point is, the child is not necessarily the father of the woman, or whatever, when it comes to gender identity.

In the case of a 13 year old or younger coming out as trans, my heart really goes out to anyone in that situation, because if caught in time, the ravages of testosterone on a girl’s looks can be prevented. In the world I dream of, parents would be as open and encouraging to their trans kids as trublmaker so admirably has — because puberty is the crucial age when everything goes wrong in a trans person’s life. My favorite example of how to handle it right is young Johanna over in Germany. (The name is coincidental.) I wish I could show German Johanna’s story to every parent in the world!

@Charger

Anyway, I’m not gay. In fact, quite the opposite. I don’t like being around men, I think they’re disgusting and oaf-ish. I’ve participated in things that allowed me to be around girls. I even joined the cheerleading squad and felt like I was in heaven, being around a bunch of pretty girls in short skirts, and getting to interact with them and have physical contact with them as much as possible. And connection I can have with women is a huge turn-on. I often reject typical male things, because I still have an obession with women. The women I am most attracted to are the girly-girls. The girlier, the better. And I’m not intimidated by my own feminity. I’m not sure what to classify myself as. Sometimes, I look at is as super-heterosexuality, because it is essentially an extreme obession with women/feminity. An attraction to anything feminine, with a rejection of anything masculine.

It does make it difficult to express myself, however, in a homophobic world. I keep many of my attractions and fantasies VERY private. I can relate to many gays, and I admire the ones who have the courage come out of the closet, but it’s hard for me because what I’m closeted about isn’t homosexuality, but heterosexuality with an emphasis on the “girly.”

Charger, I don’t want to scare you, because your case may be totally different–but… I quoted you at length because this whole passage could have exactly described me only a few years ago. (Except for the cheerleading, but what I did was take ballet and other dance classes to be surrounded by totally hot, hot women in leotards.) Some of you may remember my posts from that era very similar to that one. In 1999-2000 I made a web page all about my thoughts on the feminine; I sent the link to a woman (who later became a close friend, but didn’t know me at the time). She was convinced I was a lesbian based on my writing, although I hadn’t intentionally written that way. What prescience! Sometimes others can see things in oneself that one hadn’t seen.

My closeness to the feminine just kept getting stronger and stronger until when I was 45 it became too obvious to ignore that I was trans. The signs had always been there going back to my earliest childhood memories, but for the longest time I resisted drawing the obvious conclusion. Then all that pent-up femininity was finally released like the flood when a dam bursts. Imagine if you can.

No way to tell from posts here where trublmaker’s child is really at with respect to gender identity; I just hope parents will be sensitive to the possibility (again, without pushing it). I like the idea of leaving it at the child’s own initiative, but having a warm, supportive acceptance ready just in case. I’m pretty sure the reason why I kept it locked away was the strict Catholic upbringing that back in the 1960s could never have imagined letting me transition. It would have been just unthinkable to that mindset; if I’d tried it back then, they used stuff like aversion therapy to try to force it out of kids.

Trans kids today at least stand some chance of leading a happy life, however far the society still has to go in accepting us. The resources and support networks are now in place, which did not exist when I was a kid.

trublmakr, I am just so happy that you’re the sort of Mom that any kid would be lucky to have. It’s funny—my daughter tried coming out as lesbian a few years ago, but she was only faking, just trying to get a rise out of us, and was disappointed when we said it was OK. … Then I came out as lesbian to her… :smack:

[Coin]

I have very little to add that hasnt been said except to say that you really DONT need to sit down and have a talk about the poor guys sexuality yet. Let him know that youll love him no matter what he does. Honestly, at 13, his sexuality may not be fully formed yet.

[Malacandra]

[Professor Kirke]We might all try minding our own business.[/PK]

[global_community]

Hmmm…the first thing my father said to me when I announced my engagement (at age 23)…“I was worried about you, I thought you were gay”
I would most certainly go with the thought that you shouldn’t bring up his sexuality at this point, unless he asks to discuss it. You don’t want to somehow tell him that he “should” be gay because of some traits that he has - this may make him either feel guilty about a sensitive nature or try to “live up to” his mothers expectations. (don’t get me wrong, I am not saying being gay is a choice, but rather that trying to live up to / into others’ expectations can be a powerful force)
And also to put your mind at rest about the “dressing like girls thing” - I went to vice-versa parties as a girl at about 16 or 17 years of age.
Also, another thought for you, I was a very shy teenager, particularly growing up in a small town, never had my first sexual experience till I was 21, (which was not “fulfilling” if you catch my drift), in fact I never “had fun” as it were until I met my current wife.

[Charger]

@Johanna

Charger, I don’t want to scare you, because your case may be totally different–but… I quoted you at length because this whole passage could have exactly described me only a few years ago. (Except for the cheerleading, but what I did was take ballet and other dance classes to be surrounded by totally hot, hot women in leotards.) Some of you may remember my posts from that era very similar to that one.

Nah, I’m not scared. I keep in touch with a lot of the gay/lesbian/transsexual community online. When I went to college, I really discovered that such people existed in the world and weren’t afraid of expressing themselves, which I admire. During that era, I sought out what was “wrong” with me. I have no idea what the future holds for me, but having been in touch with so many transgendered folks over the years has lifted my fear of the subject. And I think any 13 year old discovering themselves in today’s world has the technology to have that kind of exposure at their fingertips. Hopefully, that will help them find their place in this world, and let go of any of those oppressive fears early on. I’m hoping that the connection to information that kids have today makes everyone a little more open to alternative perspectives. Maybe then the next generation will be more intrigued than afraid.

[Kalhoun]

@Johanna

In the case of a 13 year old or younger coming out as trans, my heart really goes out to anyone in that situation, because if caught in time, the ravages of testosterone on a girl’s looks can be prevented. In the world I dream of, parents would be as open and encouraging to their trans kids as trublmaker so admirably has — because puberty is the crucial age when everything goes wrong in a trans person’s life.

Okay…now I don’t see how this can be a good thing. We’ve seen examples of so many people who admit they don’t know (or didn’t know) what their true sexuality was at that age. If a kid thinks they are, or says they are transgendered at that age and then realizes later that they aren’t any different than any other confused 13-year-old, haven’t we jumped the gun? I understand a parent wanting to do the right thing. I just don’t believe that the norm is for anyone to know what the right thing is at that age. Of course there are exceptions, but I don’t see any foolproof way of knowing…do you?