I tried to edit but it said it was over 5 minutes. I don’t think so but you can’t argue with the computer. OK you can but then people start to look at you funny. This is what I wanted to put in.
Of course she was in the room willingly. She stated she entered her office. He followed her. It is not a private residence he apparently had every right to be in there with her to discuss work. Acting in an angry manner does not equal threats. From your own cite it says “intentionally restraining”. Intent is very important. Intent is a very strong word in the legal sense. He was yelling at her. It may have frightened her. That does not mean he intentionally was keeping her in there. Feeling cornered is not enough. There has to be intent to raise it to the level of false imprisonment. Remember this was done in an office. Others heard what was going on. The boss came in shortly and removed the asshole. There was no intent of imprisoning her. He was an asshole. He harrassed her needlessly. But lets not make a federal case out of it. Literally.
I just wanted to make the point that this was absolutely the right thing for you to do. He bullied you, you stood up for yourself, and for some unknown reason, he escalated it into criminal territory, but you did not do the wrong thing by standing up to a bully.
I’m really interested to see how your company deals with this. I’ve had mild bullies in the workplace before that weren’t taken seriously by my supervisors (until I quit - HAH!), but I’ve never been assaulted in the workplace.
He DID frighten her. No “may” about it. I would have been a basket case after taking a verbal beating like that. He intended to frighten and intimidate her, and that’s exactly what he did. He wasn’t getting something he wanted, and he chose to yell and intimidate to try to get it.
When we have these conversations, we get caught up in semantics.
There is the casual use of words - verbally assaulted is a perfectly acceptable way for LVgeogeek to describe this behavior as a casual user of these terms. All my friends would understand “verbally assaulted” to be fancytalk for “he yelled at me.”
There is the HR use of the words - verbally assault possibly means something quite different in the HR world. I’m not qualified to speak to what exactly…not being an HR person.
There is the legal use of words. Verbally assaulted means something very specific in a legal world, and people who live in that world will parse things down - not only talking about if it legally met the definition in each jurisdiction, but if it has any chance of being prosecuted. (As I understand it, I’m not a lawyer either).
But all of this is moot and drives us off the core topic. The core topic - the behavior was inappropriate - inappropriate enough that several other coworkers have taken upon themselves to intervene. And it was scary to LVgeogeek.
The OP has my sympathies, but my linguistic hackles are raised. Doesn’t it undercut the claim of the degree of offense that words and an aggressive stance can cause if we have to have recourse to the metaphor of another kind of offense to talk about what’s wrong. “Assault” and “beating” are words about physical violence. We have words like “tirade” and “menacing” to describe what happened.
I’m a rather slight woman and am pretty well known for being able to hold my own when dealing with irrational folks (drunk gamblers, mostly).
I certainly hope that you don’t end up falling into the “hysterical woman” category. It sounds like you have the support of your higher ups and it most certainly sounds like this guy lost his top.
I had a customer touch me the other day. He reached under my arm as I was gathering chips and grabbed my ribs. It was disconcerting to me. I don’t mind you touching me on my arm or hand or shoulder, but it was very odd to have someone “go under my wings” so to say. I asked the gentleman to please don’t touch me like that. He got offended, I tried to just brush it off because while disconcerting, it wasn’t that big of a deal if he had just stopped. He insisted on it being a problem, so I called over a supervisor. Now understand, I have been called a stinking bitch, a cunt, an idiot, told to fuck off repeatedly, etc. Those folks were not all escorted out. You know what battle we ALWAYS win? You do not get to touch me. You are going home. Bye.
I’m shocked that the guy was able to stay at work. They should have sent him home for the day immediately. If he was wrong enough for the higher up to have to remove him from your office, he should have been removed from the premises.
For anyone to even imply that there are not men out there that absolutely DO use their size to intimidate women need to wake up. Just like there are women who use their tits to get what they want. The difference is the chances of you being physically harmed by a womans tits are slim (no matter how hard you try) and the thought of being physically harmed while in a professional environment is pretty psychologically freaky. Due to the nature of my job, it has on occasion caused me to fear for my physical safety, that is why we have armed security and usually a Sheriff around. But in an office? It is insane for someone to have to tolerate that kind of behavior.
I wonder if the OP has seen this guy since then, and what her heart does when he’s around. I’d bet her fight or flight reflex is on full alert.
It wasn’t a beating. It would have effected me too but it wasn’t a beating. Whether she was frightened or not is irrelavent to the question I was answering. The legal question of whether it was false imprisionment hinges on his intent, not if she was frightened or intimidated. I think you missed the point. I am not trying to justify his actions. I think he should be fired for it. Should have been fired on the spot. I don’t think he should be charged with assault, false imprisonment or kidnapping, that is an opinion. In my state he couldn’t be, that is a fact backed up by 10 years in law enforcement. I don’t know the laws in Nevada. For all I know he may be found guilty and sentenced to be crushed to death by a ball on a giant roulette wheel.
She went in the room willingly. She did not stay in the room willingly.
Gracious. Is that what he was doing? We must be reading different threads.
Is **being **cornered enough? Because that is what happened. Read the OP.
He was blocking her with his body. He was so threatening that she literally froze on the spot and could not even make sense of his words. Are you saying he did this by accident? It surely seems to me that he intended to do exactly what he did, which was to position himself in such a way as to browbeat her and prevent her from eluding him.
Look at this from a legal point of view not from an* I am outraged * point of view. You are trying to build a case for false imprisonment or kidnapping. You don’t have a case.
You first said she was not in the room willing, I pointed out she of course was in there willingly. She went into the room first. She never said she tried to leave. She never said he told her she couldn’t leave.
I am not being gracious just truthful. If he followed her into her residence or the womens bathroom or somewhere else she would expect some level of privacy or that he wasn’t allowed in then it makes your case stronger. Instead he goes into her office a place he has been many times before since he is the project mananger. He goes in there to “discuss” business and her perceived shortcomings. That he did so in an unbelievably unprofessional manner doesn’t matter in building your argument. She went into the office willingly he followed into a room he has a right to be in.
“Being” cornered in the physical sense makes your case a bit stronger. But it was unclear in the OP. Was she literally backed into a corner? Was there no room to move past him if she tried? There was never any verbal threats to keep her in the room. There was no way to prove intent to keep her in the room. It was in an office with at least a few people around. The evidence of this is that the boss came in shortly to diffuse the situation. Was it 30 seconds before he came in? A minute? You are building a case here for a jury. This is important information.
Even if it was his intent to improperly restrain her it would be impossible to prove. Maybe it would rise to the level of proof needed in a civil trial (I doubt it) but certainly not for a criminal trial.
No, this is what I first said. “Unless it is your contention that she stayed in the room with him willingly.” It really is an important distinction. No one has suggested that she was forced into the room, and for you to continue to argue against that position is foolish.
For the life of me I do not see where you are getting this “discuss business” crap from. First he called her a “fucking worthless piece of shit,” then he followed her into the room and slammed the door, and proceeeded to scream at her, to insult her, to intimidate her, and to bully her. That may be discussing business in your part of the world, but if so, you are way out on the tail end of the Bell curve.
What is unclear about “he cornered me,” unless you are attempting to torture a definition? He cornered her. She was not free to move. She was too frightened to move.
Why? Why isn’t the fact that he did it willingly proof enough? If he in fact did prevent her from moving, would his defense be that he was not aware of it? He didn’t *mean *to corner her and scream at her, it just turned out that way?
Concerning assault, as mentioned before in this thread, from Merriam-Webster , assult can absolutely be verbal. As can waving your finger in a person’s face. Battery is the actual act of beating, which is why you see people charged with assault AND battery in cases where the assault escalates.
We’re not arguing the connotation of the word, that’s what the word means .
What is unclear about “he cornered me,” unless you are attempting to torture a definition? He cornered her. She was not free to move. She was too frightened to move.
Why? Why isn’t the fact that he did it willingly proof enough? If he in fact did prevent her from moving, would his defense be that he was not aware of it? He didn’t *mean *to corner her and scream at her, it just turned out that way?
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No this is what you first said:
Which is what I was commenting on. Any other of your quotes came after that post.
I get it, you are outraged. Doesn’t change the fact that the guy is not going to and should not be charged with the level of crime that you suggest. I used the term “discuss business” to separate it from he went in there to rape/rob/murder her. If it isn’t up to your level of outrage I’ll say he went in there to “act like an asshole in an unprofessional manner, yelling like a fucking lunatic in response to something that happened at work”. Is that better? You can add a few more expletives to it and I wouldn’t disagree with you. I’m not saying what did was right, it just doesn’t warrant a couple of years in prison.
Jesus Christ. Of course I am torturing a definition. We are talking about the law. Words and there definitions are very important. In the law words like intent are very powerful and precise. You can’t just throw them around. The application of that definition can mean the difference between a minor fine and a prison sentence. Too frightened to move and not free to move are two different things. Thats where that pesky word intent comes in. I deal with the law every day of my life. This case is a loser. This is not improper restraint. It could never be proven in a court. No prosecutor would ever touch it. Go ahead and be outraged but don’t let it cloud your judgement. In my opinion he should be fired. Just calling someone a fucking worthless piece of shit in a business setting should be enough for that. He shouldn’t go to prison for a couple of years.
Merriam-Webster does not write the law. In some states assault can mean that. In others it doesn’t.
I think I have said as much as I can on the subject. I’ll be going to work so anything further will have to be discussed without me. I hope things work out for the best LVgeo.
No, wait, I don’t think a cite is good enough. I think we need to do a study. I’ll volunteer. Bring on the tits!
So what exactly would your ‘real women’ do in the OP’s situation? LVgeogeek stood up to the asshole right away, making it clear that she wasn’t going to put up with his behavior. I’m not sure what you would expect her to do.
And she absolutely should call the police to make a complaint and see if he could be charged, and also get a restraining order. Not because she’s a pussy, but because it makes him face up to the full consequences of his actions and if he does confront her again, it probably won’t be at work.
He asked her a question, didn’t like her answer and went off on her. Then left. Then she followed him out of her office and challenged him in front of everyone, then retreated to her office. He went back to her office to answer her challenge behind closed doors and now he’s a shaved-headed postal maniac whose hands are registered with the FBI as lethal weapons just by virtue of the fact he’s a man and former military.
I get that what he did was inappropriate. I just don’t get that there was assault, battery and kidnapping because the OP feels like there was.
Kidnapping charges are ridiculous. It’s possible this guy could be charged with a crime, but kidnapping certainly isn’t one of those charges.
However, if someone went off on a screaming fit like this at my place of employment and they weren’t fired for it, I’d quit and let the management know why.
Yes, he went behind closed doors…where he proceeded to corner her. That’s not normal behavior, especially when the whole incident was sparked by such a brief encounter.
