I agree it sounds like the guy was acting irrationally. It sounds like there have been bad feelings building up for awhile but “cornered?” She retreated to her office and I assume there’s only one door and he was in front of it but by that standard everyone gets cornered in their office by just about everybody everyday.
Yes, yes, yes. Calling her a piece of shit is just totally out there. Way fucked up. Wish I had a dollar for every time someone has freaked out and “cornered” me. I’d have - well I’d have few bucks at least.
He bitched at her, she bitched back, he bitched back and then the OP got scared. What would the “real women” in my experience do? Not get scared, and bitch back more. That’s pretty much how it works in the adult world. Do you go through life figuring if you get into an argument with a man it comes down to who can beat up whom? That’s playground shit. We’re talking about adults and whether they’re in the military or in business people don’t resolve their differences on the playground based on who can beat up whom. Do you think men in business resolve their pissing contests based on “I could probably take you in a fight?”
The Co-worker was wrong to do what he did. I believe that in the Marines that they can yell at subordinates that way in order to “tear down and rebuild the pysche of the recruit as a ‘teammember’.” But treating coworkers in civilian life with that level of aggression is not acceptable. Storming back into a coworker’s office, slamming the door, getting in her face, unleasing a diatribe–that is not to be condoned. If this had happened between two strangers in line at the theater the aggressive guy would have been arrested, I would hope. Heck, if he had done that to a cop he would have been. If a fellow policeman did what the OP described to a policeman then it would have had reprocussions.
No, I don’t think real men, to borrow your phrasing do that, but I think it very probable that you do, based on the attitude you have copped here! :dubious:
I answered his questions in a rational manner. When he got angry, I was seriously confused. Then I said in a firm not bitchy or snotty tone “You will never speak to me like that again”, that is when he became out of line.
I have an “L” shaped desk, in the corner of my office aginst the wall. I was backed into the corner of said desk. We were bacsaically toe to toe, I could feel his breath on my face. I was scared that If I tried to get away he whould have gotten physical. I can take a punch, I guess. I have before once in my life, when I was 10 from another 10 year old.
If he would have just gone back to his office after I said YWNSTMLTA. It would have been over. I would have let it slide. Chalked up to a bad day, whatever. It is when he came back after me the he crossed the line.
For the record, I am not the only woman in my office. I am, however, the only woman in my department. And no, I do not fall into the “hysterical woman” category running off to management any time someone says a dirty word.
In my line of work, which is very male dominated, it is best to have a thick skin. I let a lot of things slide. Not a lot of things at work bother me. In fact, I have never made a complaint against a co-worker, ever in my life.
I also never mentioned restraining orders, kidnapping, false imprisonment or what have you. At the time I did consider calling the police, but I didn’t think it was necessary. I don’t even want to press charges. I don’t even worry about possible reatliation outside the office. I am just letting the upper management handle it at this time. Our office administrator is the one who brought up taking it to corporate human resources. For now, I am just seeing where it goes.
I don’t know that he will absorb what you say, LVgeogeek since I believe I’m not the only one to point out that you weren’t filing a restraining order, and didn’t even call the police. Do keep that as a possible option in the future if he continues to do similar things to what he did that day. You don’t have to feel that threatened at work, which you already know, just backing you up. I highly doubt that it will even go that far though, since it is in the best interest of your company to ensure that such a liability risk is completely quashed. You never know quite what life will through at you though, so just in case, keep that detailed log etc.
She challenged him? You mean, by saying “You will not talk to me that way again,” meaning “you will not call me a worthless piece of shit,” she provoked him? Presented a challenge he could not ignore?
Her response to being called a worthless piece of shit was correct. It was not “bitching back”. I cannot believe you call it that. His response should have been “I’m sorry.” If he took it as a challenge, as you claim, then that is his problem. She is not the one who escalated this.
Then you say she should have “bitched back more”? All fights go to the ground, whether literally or figuratively. And as someone else pointed out, if she had, both of them would have been disciplined.
It seems that you can’t bear the idea of some uppity snatch telling any man to stop pushing her around, figuratively or otherwise. You’d actually prefer that she “bitch back” like a Springer guest? That’s the kind of woman who gets your respect?
He escalated the attack, following her into her office, slamming the door, and cornered her in her office and proceeded to verbally attack her some more.
Like a normal human being does when something frightening like this happens.
Good for the “real women” in your world. The real women in my world expect to be treated with respect and dignity and not have Springer-esque fights at work. In my opinion, the fact that this happened at work makes it even worse; LVgeogeek can’t simply walk away from this situation without taking into account the loss of income and a job that she may want to progress at.
(For the record, I don’t think there is any merit in talking about things like forcible restraint and kidnapping here. I do think what happened was a verbal beating, just like the Project Manager meant it to be.)
In my opinion you made all the right moves and still are. Your best chance for a lasting resolution will be through management. If they don’t have their heads up their collective asses then they will do something and do it quick. Just throw the term hostile work environment at them. If that isn’t one I don’t know what is. In my experience the best you could get from taking him to court is getting him fined a few hundred dollars if convicted. It would probably take a lot longer than you would like it to also. Of course I am not speaking as an expert in Nevada law specifically so that whole roulette wheel thing may still be in play. Around here you would not be eligible for a restraining order either. You might be out there. Something you should probably consult a lawyer for if you do wind up thinking about it. Good luck.
It’s not appropriate to go off on someone just because you don’t like the answer they give you. And read the OP again. The exchange was:
Well, first of all, he didn’t just “leave.” LV says he “stormed off,” and furthermore, calling someone a WPOS is not generally the end of a conversation. You apparently think it should have become a slanging match; LV chose to assert herself calmly and clearly. By your definition, it seems that LV saying “You will not talk to me that way again” requires a response of “I can and I will.” At any rate, we don’t know that her “challenge” was “in front of everyone”, since she said it was in the hallway, and there might not have been anyone else there.
And as for “behind closed doors,” the impression I got was that the PM wanted to put LV in a situation where she could not get away. I was never talking about kidnapping, so I don’t want to get into it now. The point is, it seems to me that he wanted her alone and without witnesses, not for discretion’s sake, but so he could be free to “go off” on LV without interference. This was not “discussing business.” Calling someone a WPOS is hardly a work-related matter.
I’m curious about something. When you get into an altercation, do you generally have the upper hand? Or are you more likely to cave, to feel intimidated and back down? Because I’m starting to wonder if you’ve been pushed around a lot, and secretly, you wish you could be like this guy and give back some of what you’ve gotten.
Well, I talked to my husband about this. He works in construction, which as you all may know has different rules for conduct than office-type work. He said that this type of behaviour would not be tolerated in his company, and would draw the perpetrator an official warning if not being outright fired. If it wouldn’t be tolerated in construction, it’s pretty darned bad behaviour.
I only suggested that you do that in order to establish the seriousness of the situation. In the event a second incident occurs or if the first incident has to be sorted out by a neutral third party, you don’t want anyone thinking that the first incident wasn’t too bad because you didn’t call the police.
It sounds like the OP did something really dumb, probably in front of a client.
The ex Marine reacted badly, he reverted to dealing with his team, rather than sitting down and quietly verbally demolishing her ( I had a basement room for verbal chastisement of miscreants - personally I prefer a pub )
I thoroughly disapprove of his behaviour, but reckon that she handled things wrong.
I also reckon that he rather likes her, abuse is not the same as disdain.
No, it doesn’t. It sounds like she took one less water quality measurement (out of a series of them) than procedure required, which only came out back at the lab/office. Where you are picking up “in front of a client” I don’t know, and I don’t think it rates as “really” dumb, only slightly so.
I’ve worked as a geologist before, on a gold mine. Even with the much rowdier work environment of a Witwatersrand gold mine (e.g. salty language A-OK, even in the mine management meetings!) , if I’d neglected to sample a face I was supposed to, the worst I’d get would be a ribbing or a verbal, off-the-record reprimand (depending on if it was my first time/how honest a mistake it was), and the sure knowledge that I’d better get down there first thing tomorrow. If my line manager went off at me as described in the OP, he’d find himself with at least a written warning and a visit to the Company Psychologist by the end of the day.
