thanks coldfire for promoting the pit element in this thread
bj0rn - …
What did you expect? The subtle approach never seems to work with you. I have no other alternative than to be as direct as possible.
you mean sarcasm can be misunderstood
bj0rn - sorry about that, that wasnt really fair.
The Coming of Bj0rny
I came into work earlier than usual in the morning and discovered a tiny cockroach jumping about on the keys of my computer. He did not see me and I watched him. He would climb painfully upon the monitor and cast himself with all his force upon a key, head downward and his weight and the impact of the blow were just sufficient to register on the machine, one slow letter after another. He could not work the capital letters, and he had a great deal of difficulty the enter key, which has always stuck a bit. I had never seen a cockroach work so hard or perspire so freely in all my life before. After about an hour of this frightfully difficult literary labor he fell to the floor exhausted, and we saw him creep feebly into a nest of the poems which are always there in profusion.
Congratulating myself that I had left the computer on and notepad running the night before so that all this work had not been in vain, I made an examination, and this is what I found:
expression is the need of my soul
i was once a very confused doofus
but i died and my soul went into the body of a cockroach
it has given me a new outlook upon life
i see things from the under side now
thank you for the apple cores in the wastepaper basket
but your paste is getting so stale i cant eat it
there is a mod on the message board called coldiebel i wish you would have
removed he savaged me the other night why dont he
catch trolls that is what he is supposed to be fore
he should catch trolls without delay
most of these mods here are just cool cats
but coldiebel is like me he had a human soul in him
until he became a mod
he used to be a poet himself
night after night i have written poetry for you
on your keyboard
and this big brute of a mod who used to be a poster
comes out of his hole when it is done
and reads it and sniffs at it
he is jealous of my poetry
he used to make fun of it when we were both human
he was a punk poster himself
and after he has read it he sneers
and uses sarcasm at it and confuses me
and then he makes me eat it
that is what coldiebel is like
i wish you would get another mod
or get a mod that is onto his job
and i will write you a series of poems showing how things look
to a cockroach
until then i will just post irriatingly cryptic messages
the next time coldiebel transmigrates i hope he wont be a mod
but something smaller i hope i will be a rat
in the next transmigration and coldiebel a cockroach
i will teach him to sneer at my poetry then
dont you ever eat any sandwiches in your office
i haven’t had a crumb of bread for i dont know how long
or a piece of ham or anything but apple parings
and paste and leave a piece of paper in your machine
every night you can call me bj0rny
By a shocking coincidence, I discovered this the day after Czarcasm made the initial reference. I want to say that by posting it no disrespect is intended to the genius of Don Marquis or to Coldfire.
Fenris
Oops…
That last sentence should read "…no disrespect is intended to the genius of Don Marquis, from whom I <ahem> borrowed <ahem> the bulk of this post, and Coldfire, who I admire quite a bit.
Since I had success with the first interpretation, let me have a go with the OP:
I believe that bjOrn’s point is that accumulation of facts, or parrot-like repetition of same, is intellectually deficient in and of itself. His lines
and
illustrate this quite well.
As a matter of fact, it is a point that I agree with and furthermore one well worth making. I’ve been involved previously in a debate on the manner of debate, in which I suggested that “cite, please” is too readily used as a response to arguments that are based on a logical progression from a subjective axiom. This does reveal in the requester a certain lack of comprehension of the underlying meaning of the argument and substance of the debate.
Bearing in mind that this is the pit, I think that bjOrn is just voicing his frustration with those who will fail to grasp the underlying intricacies of a point and/or line of reasoning and just point to poorly understood and/or ill-judged “cites” as their counterargument.
M’kay?
On a separate point, I have noticed a tendancy here at the Dope to pile on and pick on anyone whose use of English is non-standard. Be it G. Nome’s (to my mind) fantastically free-form use of prose or bjOrn’s attempts to use a language in which he is not that familiar, it seems that there is a tacit understanding that we will get those who don’t speak like ourselves. And I don’t like it.
Personally I welcome the diversity and I do not find it that difficult to interpret the posts. I understand and welcome the concept that this is a written medium and that one ought to express oneself as clearly as possible to make one’s point apparant and lucid over the general babble. However we each do the best we can with the resources available. I would caution some of those criticising that although their English can be of a very high standard, their communication skills also sometimes leave something to be desired.
pan
Fenris:
kabbes, with all due respect. There are many posters here for whom English is a second language. They vary in their levels of adequacy, and that’s fine. No one here is judged based on their command of English alone. Anniz makes grammar- and spelling mistakes all the time, and I’ve never seen her being attacked because of it.
G. Nome is a highly intelligent woman. With a very poor grasp on reality, and a stick up her ass as far as moderators go. That’s what makes her an annoying git.
bj0rn is a man, I suppose. His intelligence? Hard to tell. And frankly, I don’t particularly care. His favourite game is to post nonsensical threads, preferably in the pit, in which he -presumably- attacks generalities in poster behaviour without naming people or providing evidence. Do a search for his name and the word “sarcasm” (or variations thereof - He doesn’t always spell it the same).
He used to attack people directly, providing the needed evidence. But as of late, it appears he’s too much of a chicken shit to do even that. In short, he’s an idiot who is just trying to either get the people that know him already to yell at him, or the people who don’t know him yet to give him the benefit of the doubt by investing time and effort in attempts to defend him. As just happened to our esteemed friend kabbes, who will without a doubt find out really soon that his efforts, too, are in vain.
That’s what makes bj0rn an annoying git. And the sole reason people get on bj0rns case when it comes to his “use” of English, is because he always seems to think of himself as an excellent judge in matters of linguistics. The sheer irony. Do a search for that word and his name, too.
Mysphyt: yes, kabbes understood the OP…
kabbes: whats “tacit”?
coldfire:
i did? when and, more importantly, HOW?
bj0rn - and other readers are…
I’ve got it!
I’ve solved the mystery of where, “All your base are belong to us” originated!
Professor bj0rn did it in the computer room with a keyboard!
Bzzzzt. If you’re not going to provide evidence, I see no reason why I should. Besides, your posts are relatively easy to search for for anyone who cares to make the effort.
No apology needed… I was, indeed, (foolishly) asking for a link to a thread in which I might begin to understand your OP.
Yes, you implied that you did not want to name names or give details, however, I thought that you might be willing to give a link to a thread through which your intent might be divined. I am a fool; no big news there…
Don’t put yourself in any inconvenience to do so. If you want to explain, please do (I’ll read it). If you don’t want to explain, don’t bother. I honestly can’t say that I much care right now…
Whatever… I wish you peace and happiness, bjOrn…
For the record: I do not hold it against you if your English is not perfect (or standard). Mine is not, and I am a native speaker! And an English teacher (reel in horror if you will, but I need to make a living somehow!)! I shudder to think what would happen to Astrogirl (a native speaker of Korean) if she happened to try posting here in the Pit!
kabbes, as I have said before, I asked for a quote because I did not understand what bjOrn was talking about… and in the process I exposed myself to a good flaming. You have a very good point here, however I do not think that it is applicable to this case. The OP, it seems to me, was very vague, and engineered to make someone (such as me) respond with a request for clarification.
I got reamed because I fell for it. My fault? bjOrn’s fault? I’ll leave that for others to debate… a trap was set, and I foolishly stepped into it. Such is life…
Coldie - without wishing to hijack this too much to the much maligned Ms Gnome - I have seen people attack her for her mode of speech just as much as anything else. Probably more than for anything else.
Saying that, I can actually understand your beef with her, since she clearly does have some kind of madness when it comes to her attitudes about moderators. Hijack over.
As far as the “second language” thing goes - you above all must recognise that there are degrees of ability when it comes to speaking a foreign language. Some people have a mastery, such as yourself or my Luxembourgois friend Markus who can fool people into thinking that he is a native in 4 different tongues. Some are fluent but slightly flawed, giving themselves away with spelling errors, incorrect idioms or grammatical errors. Anniz seems to fall into this category. And some have a rather poorer grasp. bjOrn for example seems to post in a style that would be very similar to my attempt to post to a French message board.
Now should he be castigated for this? My view would be no - that is unfair. He probably doesn’t have much opportunity to practice English, so doesn’t have the occasion to improve very much. He does his best. So I’m saying attack his arguments vigorously but don’t all jump on his back just because he misuses the word “reign” for chrissakes.
The above is a general rant on the sometime intolerance that many posters seem to have for unusual posting styles. It is a rant that has been building in me for the past 9 months.
When it comes to bjOrn personally - I’m aware that you and he have a history. I’ve read some, or much, of his past posts. I still think that he is to some extent a victim of being unable to plainly express in English his thoughts. I’m not taking sides on this one though - you know I respect you Coldfire and I’m clearly going to back you as a friend and as someone with a proven track record over someone I don’t know.
If you say that you have an issue with his MO, I’ll leave it at that. I can’t believe that you’d be so exasperated at him without good reason, so I consider myself warned. But morally I personally can’t condemn him or accept the vitriol that he seems to attract without being personally affected first.
bjOrn - “tacit” means “silent”. In the context in which I used it, it means that I perceive a silent agreement that “we” will attack anyone who doesn’t write as we do.
pan
not comparable coldfire and you know it.
i explained and reasoned why no links or references were needed, you are on the other hand referring to an event that might or might not have happened. you are what i would call; lying.
bj0rn - …
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Astroboy14 *
**
kabbes, as I have said before, I asked for a quote because I did not understand what bjOrn was talking about… and in the process I exposed myself to a good flaming. You have a very good point here, however I do not think that it is applicable to this case. The OP, it seems to me, was very vague, and engineered to make someone (such as me) respond with a request for clarification.
[QUOTE]
With the above statement, astroboy, I was actually not referring to your request for a link. I was rather making a more general point about the nature of debate on these boards.
I did not intend to offend or cause concern for you here. Please accept my apologies if it could be taken in this way.
pan
sorry about that, that was never my intention.
mentioning G.Nome and Anniz is unneeded referance in my opinion, they have got nothing to do with this thread and only complicates matters for people who do not know them.
dont know if there is a t missing there or not but i like it like this! quite a brilliant alternative.
they did the same mistake with einstein.
about the tacit; thanks, thats what i thought it meant but i wasnt sure.
bj0rn - …
{bjOrn - say “chrissakes” fast as one word, as if you can’t quite be bothered to say “Christ’s sake”)
In an attempt to drag this thread kicking and screaming back to the OP - does anyone actually disagree with the premise that ignorance cannot be dispelled with facts alone? That a fool with knowledge is still just a knowledgable fool?
pan
I haven’t really criticized bjOrn’s use of the english language. I merely stated that it is very difficult to understand him. And in bjOrn’s case, a lot of that has nothing to do with his english proficiency. I frequently leave out words, and have verbs that don’t agree with their subjects and I’ve been speaking English all my life. But I don’t post statements that would appear disjointed to the average reader.
For example, “I’m a ghost” is a coherent English sentence. Subject, verb, indefinite article. Great. The problem is that before DDG decoded its relevance to bjorn’s OP, it made no sense at all. It seemed like some random brain fart.
Granted the title really isn’t the crux of bjOrn’s attempted point, but it this seems to be a characteristic of bjOrn’s arguments. In his mind, I’m sure his statements are all clearly connected but for those of us not in his head, his statements can seem disjointed and unrelated, thus confusing his arguments.
That’s not an English thing, that’s just an issue about the coherency and logical progression of a statement. I don’t demand that every post on this board be flawless and logically airtight, but when a consistently confusing poster flames others for lack of understanding, he becomes worthy of attack.