I'm fairly sure my best friend's wife is cheating on him. What to do?

In My Humble Opinion
141

[QUOTE=Scumpup]
Are we reading the same thread? Please explain how this is NOT an accusation of the wife whether in the form of an outright “I think your wife is getting it on with Schlongy” or the more pernicious method of seeding the husband’s mind with doubt. If the folks who think they need to involve themselves don’t believe she is guilty of adultery, why are they so insistent that the husband must be told? Sheer love of shit-stirring?
[/QUOTE]
Of course there is the thought that the wife is getting it on. WITH GOOD REASON. We believe the OP should tell the husband because the evidence at hand overwhelmingly points to a situation that offers significant harm to his friend, and given that evidence the OP would be remiss in not giving his friend an opportunity to stave off or reduce said harm.

While you seem to be zealously focused on the notion of shit-stirring, I don’t see where anyone else responding to this thread has that in mind. What I do see is the thought that it’s in the husbands best interests to be apprised of the evidence. And even though the importance of the evidence is that cheating is suspected, there’s still a significant difference between saying “I think your wife is cheating” and saying “Schlongy’s car is parked overnight down the street from your house whenever you’re out of town.”

Sure, but that trust and love is between the husband and wife, not between the OP and husband. It’s the husband’s call what to do with the evidence in the context of his marriage. The OP faces the decision of whether to present the evidence in the context of a friendship.

142

Again, if your marriage is secure to the point where there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE IN HELL NO WAY of infidelity, then good for you. Assuming that this is the case with every other single marriage is rather naive. Assuming that people never take advantage of their spouse’s vows of trust and unconditional love to have an affair is extremely naive. And assuming that anyone who is suspicious and is concerned for the health and well-being of a friend instead has ulterior motives to wantonly destroy a healthy relationship for no reason is insulting.

Look, in the long run, the only one on this board who knows about the situation well enough to make a decision about what to do is the OP. He knows the parties involved. He knows the dynamics that are already in place. And what registers as “unusual” behavior with him might not seem highly unusual to some on paper, but that’s because we don’t live in the same environment and situation as him. The OP has apparently seen some things that he cannot “unsee”, or put off as mere coincidence considering the factors involved. He’s not, as I see it, actively snooping around and aiming to hurt his friend with a “venomous tongue”. He’s concerned for his friend and doesn’t want to see him continue to be hurt if there is indeed something fishy going on.

143

[QUOTE=Scumpup]
I repeat, if you accused my wife of cheating based on such tenuous “evidence,” I would punch your lights out for the insult. If you tried to poison my mind against her, I’d likely still punch your lights out and I would scorn you for your venomous tongue.
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While others may see your attitude as being very devoted to your loving wife, I see something else going on here. It has been said again and again that it might be a good idea to simply present the evidence as observed, coming from a frame of friendship. The only way you seem to be able to interpret it as blind accusations against your wife’s fidelity. You fail to see it in any other light. And any attempt to challenge your rose-colored world triggers extreme rage and violence in you.

IANAP, but could it be that deep down you are not as convinced of your wife’s fidelity as you’d wish? Keep in mind that I’m not accusing HER of anything, but it seems like you might have an issue that needs to be addressed.

144

Save the armchair psychoanalysis, tdn. You do it poorly.

145

[QUOTE=Scumpup]
Save the armchair psychoanalysis, tdn. You do it poorly.
[/QUOTE]

Hey, you know, I hope I’m dead wrong about it. But your reaction seems really out of proportion. Seriously, if a friend was concerned about your marriage, your first reaction would be to resort to violence? That does not sound normal to me.

146

[QUOTE=Guestimate]
Let me tell you something…My last boyfriend cheated on me, not for long even, before he broke up with me SHE insisted (how nice). A couple of months later I finally went to a doctor to find out what the hell was wrong with me. Herpes.
It was almost five years ago. I haven’t dated anyone since. I probably never will. I already was fucked up, this was the last straw for me. I’m now just … living.

If you love your friend, verify the facts of the situation (is it THAT car?)
and then help your friend.

I’m crying now wishing I could have been spared this, if I would have known he was fucking someone else I wouldn’t have gotten this.
[/QUOTE]

Guesstimate Thank you for sharing your heartache with us.

147

So, any update, Shamozzle?

[QUOTE=featherlou]
I don’t quite follow this; who was doing what at whose window?
[/QUOTE]

This:

[QUOTE=Ferret Herder]
I think he meant that the husband of his girlfriend’s sister would come over to the girlfriend’s (and Santo’s) house and whack off while peeping at her.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I didn’t realize how poorly I had written that until I reread it just now.

148

[QUOTE=LouisB]
MYOB. Your friend will not thank you. If his wife is cheating and they work it out, his wife will not thank you. If they divorce, neither one will thank you. If you know for certain she is cheating, how do you know that your friend doesn’t know, doesn’t care, might even approve, or what? In fact, you don’t know anything for certain. Stay the hell out of it.
[/QUOTE]
Well said. And the correct course of action. I’ve never understood the bizarre obsession people have with sticking their noses into matters that are absolutely not their business. When did it become fashionable to act like Gladys Kravitz?

If the man is spending the night at your friend’s house (something which you don’t know to be true), and if he is having sex with the wife (something else which you don’t know to be true), and if your friend doesn’t know about it (a third thing you don’t know to be true), and if he’s not mature enough to deal very well with what you plan to tell him, the results could be anything from jealous rage and pain, to potentially physical violence (against either the wife or her accused lover), to a wrecked marriage and years of painful rebuilding for both. Would that make you feel proud? Like a good and supportive friend?

On the other hand, even if all of the above “ifs” are true, and your friend is too oblivious to figure it out for himself, how is his life any the worse for it? And if any one of your assumptions is false, you’ll quite probably only be stirring up trouble, suspicion, resentment, defensiveness, and bitterness, all for nothing, to the benefit of no one. Would that make you proud?

Keep your priggish, Mrs. Grundy persona in check, and let other people live their own lives without your meddling. Everybody who advises jumping into the matter is wrong. It’s none of your damn business. Learn to stay out of things that don’t concern you. It will make you a better friend. And a better person.

149

[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
So, any update, Shamozzle?

[/QUOTE]
No, not yet. I’m still thinking. There are a lot of interesting viewpoints in this thread. But right now I’m leaning towards the “casually inform your friend of the facts you do know” camp.

[QUOTE=Dogberry]
Well said. And the correct course of action. I’ve never understood the bizarre obsession people have with sticking their noses into matters that are absolutely not their business. When did it become fashionable to act like Gladys Kravitz?

If the man is spending the night at your friend’s house (something which you don’t know to be true), and if he is having sex with the wife (something else which you don’t know to be true), and if your friend doesn’t know about it (a third thing you don’t know to be true), and if he’s not mature enough to deal very well with what you plan to tell him, the results could be anything from jealous rage and pain, to potentially physical violence (against either the wife or her accused lover), to a wrecked marriage and years of painful rebuilding for both. Would that make you feel proud? Like a good and supportive friend?

On the other hand, even if all of the above “ifs” are true, and your friend is too oblivious to figure it out for himself, how is his life any the worse for it? And if any one of your assumptions is false, you’ll quite probably only be stirring up trouble, suspicion, resentment, defensiveness, and bitterness, all for nothing, to the benefit of no one. Would that make you proud?

Keep your priggish, Mrs. Grundy persona in check, and let other people live their own lives without your meddling. Everybody who advises jumping into the matter is wrong. It’s none of your damn business. Learn to stay out of things that don’t concern you. It will make you a better friend. And a better person.
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Your viewpoint has been expressed by others upthread and I’ve commented accordingly. Did you read this thread?

150

[QUOTE=Shamozzle]
Your viewpoint has been expressed by others upthread and I’ve commented accordingly. Did you read this thread?
[/QUOTE]

I read the thread. Virtually every post in it can be reduced to “yes, tattle” or “no, don’t tattle”. Since this is the 150th post, it’s clear that each of the two viewpoints has been expressed more than once. And since I quoted and agreed with another poster’s vote for MYOB (just as others have quoted the “yes, tattle” opinion and then dittoed it), it’s obvious that I’m aware that there is duplication of each of the two fundamental viewpoints. If you’d prefer to read repeated “yes, tattle” posts without dissenting opinions, then okay. I was only expressing an opinion, which the OP called for. I have no idea why you would think I hadn’t read the thread.

151

[QUOTE=Dogberry]
…SNIP I have no idea why you would think I hadn’t read the thread.
[/QUOTE]
Because you said:

[QUOTE=Dogberry]
I’ve never understood the bizarre obsession people have with sticking their noses into matters that are absolutely not their business.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dogberry]
…SNIP On the other hand, even if all of the above “ifs” are true, and your friend is too oblivious to figure it out for himself, how is his life any the worse for it? SNIP…
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dogberry]
It’s none of your damn business. Learn to stay out of things that don’t concern you. It will make you a better friend. And a better person.
[/QUOTE]
Even though I had previously said:

[QUOTE=Shamozzle]

He’s my best friend. If my best friend was in danger I would do my best to protect him. And vise versa. If his wife is cheating on him, then yea, he’s in danger. Even from a practical sense with regard to STD’s he would be in danger.

So, is his wife cheating on him? I don’t know. But it kind of looks like it. So, it kind of looks like he is in danger. That gets me interested.
[/QUOTE]

And I’ll add: “That makes it my business.”

Right now, I’m at the “concerned and contemplative” stage, not the “Cool! A marriage I can destroy for my own amusement” stage. Apparently, that isn’t obvious through what I’ve previously posted.

You ask whether I would feel proud if I was integral in the destruction of their marriage. Proud? Are you serious? I sure as hell wouldn’t feel proud. I’d be even more depressed about this whole thing than I am right now.

Let me ask you, is it ever ok to interfere in the private matters of those you care about? What if my friend was beating his wife or molesting his children? Would it be alright then? Both involve putting loved ones in harm’s way. How might those examples be fundamentally different than the situation I suspect exists between my friend and his wife?

Let me make something clear. I’m not trying to sound like a hero, but this is a man I would die for. Are the occasionally inconvenient and uncomfortable responsibilities of deep fraternity lost on you?

152

Shamozzle, despite what I may have posted, I’m not really firmly either in the tattle camp nor in the don’t tattle camp. This is a real dilemma. But may I ask you something, with no agenda or solution on my part?

Let’s suppose for a moment that there is, in fact, cheating going on, and that your friend is being played for a sap. Whether or not you say anything, what is the outcome you are hoping for? Obviously you want to remain buddies with your buddy, but other than that, what? In an ideal world, would you want them to reconcile? Would you want your friend to leave her? Do you want her to be shamed and humiliated, or do you want her to be ultimately happy?

153

[QUOTE=tdn]
Shamozzle, despite what I may have posted, I’m not really firmly either in the tattle camp nor in the don’t tattle camp. This is a real dilemma. But may I ask you something, with no agenda or solution on my part?

Let’s suppose for a moment that there is, in fact, cheating going on, and that your friend is being played for a sap. Whether or not you say anything, what is the outcome you are hoping for? Obviously you want to remain buddies with your buddy, but other than that, what? In an ideal world, would you want them to reconcile? Would you want your friend to leave her? Do you want her to be shamed and humiliated, or do you want her to be ultimately happy?
[/QUOTE]

As someone who has been in a (kind of) similar position, I will say that I didn’t have an ideal outcome. What I DID want, however, was for my friend to make an informed decision about her own future and relationship once she was informed of all the facts.

I, and I’m sure Shamozzle is in the same camp, didn’t want to make any decisions for anyone or plan an outcome. I just wanted to let a good friend know what was going on in her marriage so she could act appropriately. In this particular case, she chose to stay with him. Good for her! But their marriage and their relationship was adjusted according to the new information.

I’m glad I tattled.

154

[QUOTE=Shamozzle]
Right now, I’m at the “concerned and contemplative” stage, not the “Cool! A marriage I can destroy for my own amusement” stage.
[/QUOTE]
Don’t worry, you’ll get there. :wink:

155

[QUOTE=Scumpup]
Once again, trust and love of a spouse trumps trust and love of outsiders.
[/QUOTE]

You’re really not making any sense at all. And you have basically stonewalled any attempt to understand your position. It would be extremely helpful to most of us here if you responded to some of these questions.

– If your wife were having a sexual relationship with someone other than you, would you want to know? Why or why not?
– If your wife had acquired a sexually transmitted disease, would you want to know? Why or why not?
– If your wife had conceived a child with another man while married to you, would you want to know that someone other than you is the biological father? Why or why not?
– If a friend of yours had observed things that might constitute evidence to suspect any of these things, would you want him to tell you? Why or why not?
– If a large number of people in your social circle knew as an absolute fact that your wife was being unfaithful to you, would you want any of them to tell you? Why or why not? If you found out much later on your own, how would you feel about being the only person unaware of it for so long?
– If your best friend and your wife had engaged in a sexual relationship, would you want to know? Why or why not?

Bear in mind that in order for this to make any sense at all, you have to accede to the assumption that your wife is actually cheating on you and that you have no knowledge or suspicion of it.

156

[QUOTE=Shamozzle]
…You ask whether I would feel proud if I was integral in the destruction of their marriage. Proud? Are you serious? I sure as hell wouldn’t feel proud. I’d be even more depressed about this whole thing than I am right now.

Let me ask you, is it ever ok to interfere in the private matters of those you care about? What if my friend was beating his wife or molesting his children? Would it be alright then? Both involve putting loved ones in harm’s way. How might those examples be fundamentally different than the situation I suspect exists between my friend and his wife?

Let me make something clear. I’m not trying to sound like a hero, but this is a man I would die for. Are the occasionally inconvenient and uncomfortable responsibilities of deep fraternity lost on you?
[/QUOTE]

Wife-beating & child-molesting (not just “spuspected”) are fundamentally different from suspected adultery. They are illegal and inherently harmful to the victim.

Nothing you have discussed would make you a “hero.” Somebody already said “Now it’s bros before hoes.” Your word selection is more tasteful, but the sentiment is the same.

Many IMHO threads discuss etiquette & fashion, but this one’s a bit more serious. It is your choice.

157

[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
Wife-beating & child-molesting (not just “spuspected”) are fundamentally different from suspected adultery. They are illegal and inherently harmful to the victim.
[/quote]

Adultery is not illegal, but you don’t admit that it is more likely than not to be inherently harmful to the victim? (And when it is not harmful, then the communication is also not likely to be harmful.)

Would you warn a friend that he is about to trip over his shoelaces? Would you warn him that his wife is about to trod on his shoelaces? Or would that be interfering in his marital relationship?

158

Once again, let’s stick to the topic. What anyone would do in the presence of absolute proof of adultery isn’t germane, for in the case of the OP we aren’t even in the same galaxy as absolute proof.
Let me put it this way. What you are looking at is a great big game of he said-she said. You are essentially taking gossip and passing it along to somebody, in this case the husband of the gossip’s topic. In the town where I work, there have been any number of individual fights, several murders, and a couple on-going feuds between families that were all caused by he said-she said.
Just for starters, the wife is going to be pissed off at you, especially if she is innocent. The friend with the distinctive car is going to be pissed off at you, especially if he is innocent. Your friend, even if he isn’t pissed off at you making a filthy accusation about his wife, is going to have a spouse who quite likely will hate you, whether she is innocent or not. Do you treasure your friendship enough to sacrifice it in order to spread some sordid gossip?
If so, at least be forthright and plainly tell him that you think Schlongy McCoolcar is fucking his wife. Don’t be the kind of duplicitous bastard who drips poison in his ear about his wife while maintaining a facade of friendship.
The only time it would be okay for you to make yourself part of this drama is if you were going to tell him that his wife was committing adultery with you.

159

[QUOTE=Scumpup]
Once again, let’s stick to the topic.
[/quote]

This is the topic. All of these questions bear directly on the OP’s problem. Why do you refuse to respond to these questions? I think it says something about your responses that you refuse to even entertain them. Frankly, you have failed to establish that your advice is based on any rational experience or thinking whatsoever.

You’re just plain wrong about this. In real life, the only way to get absolute proof is to hire a detective, and that is inappropriately intrusive. So we all have to work with possibly ambiguous, but nonetheless hard evidence.

Reporting of actual observed events is not gossip. Reporting to the affected individual is not gossip. Gossip is taking speculation, half-knowledge, and fabrication and reporting it to uninvolved third parties.

If she’s innocent, she has no reason to be pissed, especially if the OP doesn’t accuse of anything.

If he’s innocent, he has no reason to be pissed, especially if the OP doesn’t accuse him of anything.

Reporting an observation of something that is happening in public does not amount to a “filthy accusation.”

160

[QUOTE=Scumpup]
Just for starters, the wife is going to be pissed off at you, especially if she is innocent. The friend with the distinctive car is going to be pissed off at you, especially if he is innocent. Your friend, even if he isn’t pissed off at you making a filthy accusation about his wife, is going to have a spouse who quite likely will hate you, whether she is innocent or not.
[/QUOTE]

I hope that my friends value my happiness and safety enough to not keep me in the dark about suspicious actions just in case someone gets pissed off at them.